The One & Only Official Music Geeks' Thread

[Kowalczyk]

Someone has produced a list of the all-time top 2000 music video's in NL. It's all linked to Youtube so suppose you could just search yourself but there's stuff here I'd not even remotely think of looking for.

Good for a rainy day http://www.vindhetsnel.com/top2000video/

That's the annual Top 2000 that we have over here...

People can vote for their favourite songs of all time, and the Top 2000 will be played in a five day radio marathon, 24/7, starting on Boxing Day and finishing just before midnight on Dec 31.

Nice idea and it's kind of interesting, because the final list is very middle of the road, very 'greatest hits', very 'Radio 2', very 'babyboom', very 'white' and in every sense of the word very 'average'. This is what 'the average Dutchman' (nice house in a quiet town, two kids, good job at the office, an hour of commuting in the morning, an hour of commuting in the evening) thinks is good music.

That's what makes it the most predictable and boring list of pop songs in the world; it's also makes it great, too (as a social/cultural survey type of thing).

The top 10, in most cases, looks an awful lot like my personal Top 10 of Songs I Absolutely Never Want To Hear Again (Bohemian Rhapsody... f*ck me, it's not even a good tune, let alone the best...), but what the hey. For 'average taste' it's not even that horrible... Or perhaps it is. I don't know.

K.

[Kowalczyk]

Okay, let's look at the top 10...

1 Queen - Bohemian Rhapsody
2 Eagles - Hotel California
3 Boudewijn de Groot - Avond
4 Deep Purple - Child In Time
5 Led Zeppelin - Stairway To Heaven
6 Meat Loaf - Paradise By The Dashboard Light
7 Animals - The House Of The Rising Sun
8 Alan Parsons Project - Old And Wise
9 Guns n' Roses - November Rain
10 U2 - One

What does this sat about the average Dutchman's taste in music, without judging it?

Let's see...

It's a fair conclusion that the average Dutchman feels that the greatest and most quintessential 'popular music' is rock. Soul? Reggae? Hiphop? Electronic dance music? Nah. The best music is produced with guitars and drumkits, preferably by white males from the English-speaking parts of the world.

The rest is of lesser importance.

Another interesting conclusion: some might say that 'pop music' is all about partying and dancing. About youth having a good time. Well, not according to the 'average Dutchman'. To him, music is a serious thing. He prefers bombast over a jumpy tune, complexity over simplicity and 'serious emotion' over wit. Popular music, to the average Dutchman, is not a tongue-in-cheek thing. It's a way to express seeeerious feelings.

Also: 'pop music', to the average Dutchman, is not about three minute tunes. The average Dutchman tends to take a pop tune more seriously when it's epic and 'classical': violins, an orchestra and a certain 'heaviness' make a pop song more attractive and more interesting. In fact: the best 'popular' compositions ever are not 'pop songs' but little 'rock symphonies'.

Finally, the best popular music, according to the average Dutchman, was made in the 1970s.

If you look at it that way, the Top 2000 is really interesting. It tells us something about the Dutch people - and their preferences.

K.

[Philippe]

strange that Deep Purple - Child In Time is mentionned, I would have thought that only people of my generation, in their late 40 or even 50, would know this

[SE6Ajacied]

9 Guns n' Roses - November Rain

What does this sat about the average Dutchman's taste in music, without judging it?


K.

Pretty naff list I agree but slightly redeemed by having my favourite all-time track in the top 10 (I'm not lying lol, see here http://www.ajaxtalk.nl/Forum/viewtopic. ... &start=425).

Other than that, I was mainly browsing the Dutch stuff I've not heard of before - haven't found anything great though.

Menno, don't think I've posted before, I got the new Solo CD "Before We Part" a few weeks back - OK but not as good as their first two. What did you think of it?

[Kowalczyk]

strange that Deep Purple - Child In Time is mentionned, I would have thought that only people of my generation, in their late 40 or even 50, would know this

It's a bit of a 'chicken or egg?' affair.

People know it (and think it's good) because it's near the top of the list every year. That's a circle, I know, but I think it's part of the deal. Ask those people for two other Deep Purple songs - and they couldn't think of any.

There's always a certain "emperor's new clothes" effect. This is the 'average' music lover, not someone who actively searches for good music. You could say that they pick their favourite songs out of the Top 2000 itself. That's their frame of reference. They won't discover anything new by themselves, unless it is passed on to them.

Child In Time was a massive hit single over here, by the way. Number 1 for weeks, so it's not a "connaisseur's choice" or something. It's one of those tunes that everybody knows.

K.

[Kowalczyk]

Menno, don't think I've posted before, I got the new Solo CD "Before We Part" a few weeks back - OK but not as good as their first two. What did you think of it?

Doesn't have a stand-out single or obvious 'radio song', but I do think it's very, very pretty (again).

Excelsior's latest signing is a rockband from Nijmegen named De Staat ('The State'). Very cool.

K.

[gordonvandekamp]

I think we could have an endless debate on pop music and what it says about a culture, especially in modern times where it seems more important for people to like (or pretend to like) what you should rather than what you actually enjoy.

In any event, sad to see my favorite Dutch artist/video missing, Bastian - You've Got My Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cWL89fjfUU :hupajax.gif:

But I guess, according to Menno's explanation, that makes sense.

[SE6Ajacied]

In any event, sad to see my favorite video missing

lol, that's a really classy video . Check out number 395 for a classic Dutch tune (not sure about the dodgy video though)

[aveslacker]

It's funny how people have different taste. I think Bohemian Rhapsody is a great song, and I can't stand November Rain.

All in all, I think that this list is a better list than whatever crap list would come out of the U.S.

[SE6Ajacied]

Menno, don't think I've posted before, I got the new Solo CD "Before We Part" a few weeks back - OK but not as good as their first two. What did you think of it?

Doesn't have a stand-out single or obvious 'radio song', but I do think it's very, very pretty (again).

K.

You know, I think you're actually spot on there. I'm listening again right now, and there's actually nothing I don't like, just nothing that stands out that much either.

Still a very mellow album though.

[Blind3]

Give me Highway Star live over Child in Time anyday. Even with the speeding ticket received while driving too fast.

[Cedric]

Okay, let's look at the top 10...

1 Queen - Bohemian Rhapsody
2 Eagles - Hotel California
3 Boudewijn de Groot - Avond
4 Deep Purple - Child In Time
5 Led Zeppelin - Stairway To Heaven
6 Meat Loaf - Paradise By The Dashboard Light
7 Animals - The House Of The Rising Sun
8 Alan Parsons Project - Old And Wise
9 Guns n' Roses - November Rain
10 U2 - One

What does this sat about the average Dutchman's taste in music, without judging it?
K.

It also says the average Dutchman's taste in music has some curious similarities with the Flemish one. Which is not that surprising, but still, some songs had a huge impact... Here an extract of the Studio Brussel top 100:

· 1 (1) Nirvana - Smells Like Teen Spirit
· 2 (3) Metallica - One
· 3 (2) Gorky - Mia
· 4 (5) Led Zeppelin - Stairway To Heaven
· 5 (4) Deep Purple - Child In Time
· 6 (6) Pearl Jam - Alive
· 7 (9) Jeff Buckley - Hallelujah
· 8 (7) Radiohead - Creep
· 9 (8) The Cure - A Forest
· 10 (10) dEUS - Suds And Soda

· 11 (13) Metallica - Nothing Else Matters
· 12 (11) Pearl Jam - Black
· 13 (29) AC/DC - Thunderstruck
· 14 (12) U2 - One
· 15 (17) Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here
· 16 (15) Tool - Schism
· 17 (18) Radiohead - Paranoid Android
· 18 (14) Queen - Bohemian Rhapsody
· 19 (27) Rage Against The Machine - Killing In The Name
· 20 (20) Radiohead - Street Spirit


The StuBru listeners' seem younger though.

[DanK]

Strange. I love Led Zeppelin, but think Stairway to Heaven is overblown non-sense-writing crap, Radiohead are the best band of all time, but Creep is their worst song, Pearl Jam were brilliant, but Alive is so-so.

Maybe it just says something about songs radio choose to play?

[Blind3]

Alive has always confused me. It's part of the really dark Mama-san trilogy about deceipt, incest, and murder and yet became a song which many troubled youths saw as a clebration of survival.

[Philippe]

Striking about the Dutch list : nothing from bands like Pink Floyd, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Who, The Doors, Hendrix, Clapton, Dylan …
However, it indicates a surprisingly high knowledge of rock music, far superior from what we would get in survey in France (the country that has never ever produced a single decent rock group).

[SE6Ajacied]

France (the country that has never ever produced a single decent rock group).

What about Mano Negra? Not particularly high profile and probably don't fit into everybodies definition of 'rock' but definately fit into my definition of decent.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=e0uukcxZnLo

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qA8lZDAi3aY

[martinkohout]

France (the country that has never ever produced a single decent rock group).

Yes, but it can claim Jim Morrison, albeit posthumously.

[Cedric]

France (the country that has never ever produced a single decent rock group).

What about Mano Negra? Not particularly high profile and probably don't fit into everybodies definition of 'rock' but definately fit into my definition of decent.

Yeah, it depends mainly of what you call a "single decent rock group" and what your expectations are...

Mano Negra is defenitely rock and decent at the very least. But then, I may not have a high knowledge of rock music.

[jamcocteau]

Getting away from an awful list produced by boring white middle aged men, has anyone else seen the new comilation album out on 16 February called "Dark was the Night' for the Red Hot Aids Organisation. Definitely best compilation this side of the millenium in my opinion with some wonderful artists - Bon Iver, Beirut, Arcade Fire, Decemberists etc - pure class.

Ko, definitely one worthy of a newspaper review

The trackilisting:

DISC ONE:


"Knotty Pine" - Dirty Projectors + David Byrne
"Cello Song" - The Books featuring Joses Gonzalez
"Train Song" - Feist and Ben Gibbard
"Brackett, WI" - Bon Iver
"Deep Blue Sea" - Grizzly Bear
"So Far Around The Bend" - The National
"Tightrope" - Yeasayer
"Feeling Good" - My Brightest Diamond
"Dark Was The Night" - Kronos Quartet
"I Was Young When I Left Home" - Antony with Bryce Dessner
"Big Red Machine" - Justin Vernon + Aaron Dessner
"Sleepless" - The Decemberists
"Die" - Iron & Wine
"Service Bell" - Grizzly Bear + Feist
"You Are The Blood" - Sufjan Stevens

DISC TWO:

"Well-Alright" - Spoon
"Lenin" - Arcade Fire
"Mimizan" - Beirut
"El Caporal" - My Morning Jacket
"Inspiration Information" - Sharon Jones & the Dap-Kings
"With A Girl Like You" - Dave Sitek
"Blood Pt. 2" - Buck 65 Remix (featuring Sufjan Stevens and Serengeti)
"Hey, Snow White" - The New Pornographers
"Gentle Hour" - Yo La Tengo
"Amazing Grace" - Cat Power
"Happiness" - Riceboy Sleeps
"Another Saturday" - Stuart Murdoch
"The Giant Of Illinois" - Andrew Bird
"Lua" - Conor Oberst with Gillian Welch
"When The Road Runs Out" - Blonde Redhead & Devastations
"Love Vs. Porn" - Kevin Drew

[jamcocteau]

Is DanK in mourning yet - Ryan Adams quits Cardinals and takes step back from music

http://www.nme.com/news/ryan-adams/42069

[DanK]

Is DanK in mourning yet - Ryan Adams quits Cardinals and takes step back from music

http://www.nme.com/news/ryan-adams/42069

Ha! I like how taking a break, becomes quitting music. I think it will do him good, for a start he is going deaf. Playing in front of amps cant be good for that.

Even if he does call it quits from here, cant complain. 10 or so albums, and another 5 or 6 amazing bootlegs (The Suicide Handbook is as good if not better than any official release).

I wish him well, and hopefully he still releases something down the road (he was back in the studio a month ago so who knows).

[Philippe]

What about Mano Negra? Not particularly high profile and probably don't fit into everybodies definition of 'rock' but definately fit into my definition of decent.

Yeah, it depends mainly of what you call a "single decent rock group" and what your expectations are...

Mano Negra is defenitely rock and decent at the very least. But then, I may not have a high knowledge of rock music.[/quote]

Yes, all right, but they hardly ever sing in French. Anyways, that's just one in many many years ...

What about the Dutch ? Focus, ah, the good old days.

[Kowalczyk]

What about the Dutch ? Focus, ah, the good old days.

Holland had a cracking sixties garage/beat scene. Original vinyl albums by Q65 (from The Hague) and The Outsiders (from Amsterdam) are highly collectible. They 'do' hunderds of dollars on eBay. Both bands were featured on the European version of the Nuggets compilation box-set. And so were The Zipps, Shocking Blue, The Golden Earrings, The Motions, etc. A really good beat scene. The Hague (not Amsterdam) was the heart of the Dutch beat scene.

In the 1970s the Golden Earring (also from The Hague) were big in the U.S.: Radar Love was a smash hit there (that's the by far Dutch rock song ever). They did a few large arena/stadium tours in the U.S. and repeated their American succes in 1982, when Twilight Zone hit the top 10.

In the 1970s the Dutch symphonic/progressive rock scene was pretty prominent internationally: you already mentioned Focus, but we also had bands such as Kayak, Supersister, Solution and Ekseption. They all toured internationally (U.K., U.S., Japan) and did quite well around the globe.

The Dutch punk (and post-punk) scene was very lively and quite good, but very D.I.Y. and so independent that it remained local and very, very underground. Original vinyl albums cost a fortune these days, because they're ultra-rare.

Late eighties/early nineties: Urban Dance Squad (rap/rock crossover) and Bettie Serveert (alternative/indie) did well in the U.S. (underground fanbase). In the same period Amsterdam briefly was a European capital for house, techno and acid. The club scene was great over here: clubs such as iT (now closed), Mazzo (now closed), Richter (now closed) and RoXY (burnt down) were internationally renowned. House/club duo Quazar were one of the early big names in house music.

Right now, Holland is internationally succesful in two horrible genres: gothic metal (Within Temptation, After Forever, Epica, Autumn) and trance (Tiësto, Armin van Buuren, Ferry Corsten). Nothing to be proud of.

The current Dutch indie scene is not very succesful internationally, but much better than it used to be: bands such as Johan, Voicst and a few more are really good. Biggest 'mainstream' rock star is probably Anouk, although her 1997 international hit Nobody's Wife is still her by far most succesful single outside of Holland. She never topped that one, internationally.

K.

[Blind3]

I've seen Tiesto and Armin van Buuren at Coachella. I can see why people take drugs when listening to that stuff.

Give me Gogol Bordello any day.

[SE6Ajacied]

Yes, all right, but they hardly ever sing in French.

Cheers Phillipe , but yeah, you're right, I think French is the only language they don't sing in (Spanish/Portuguese/English......).

Must admit, can't think of any other French band though I've got some decent French rap stuff.