20 Jan 2008: NEC - Ajax

[SPL]

Given that PSV failed to beat VVV we are no worse off. Our defence consists of 3fairly poor full backs, plus a midfielder. I would say letting in
only 1 goal was lucky.

The only thing in our favour is that PSV and Fword are struggling so it should go to the wire.

[aveslacker]

Apparently VVV away is a pretty tough fixture!

And, iirc, didn't we drop all three points there last year, after being ahead 0-2 at one point?

If so, I would say we're making tremendous improvement!

[SE6Ajacied]

Apparently VVV away is a pretty tough fixture!

And, iirc, didn't we drop all three points there last year

err, I think you're right about it being a tough trip, small intimidating ground and all that but they only got promoted last season and we've not played them in years.

I think you're talking about Excelsior from last season.

[aveslacker]

Apparently VVV away is a pretty tough fixture!

And, iirc, didn't we drop all three points there last year

err, I think you're right about it being a tough trip, small intimidating ground and all that but they only got promoted last season and we've not played them in years.

I think you're talking about Excelsior from last season.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The second sentence was a reference to NEC away last year.

I was being sarcastic (if it isn't obvious -- sometimes it doesn't come across).

[Cedric]

We only dropped two points then : 2-2. So, I'm afraid Ajax didn't make any progress...

[Number9]

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

[Venezuelan Ajacied]

True.

Once again, by the way, the exact same thing went for Feyenoord and PSV...

Excelsior v Feyenoord 2-1
NEC v Ajax 1-1
VVV v PSV 1-1

Something's wrong in this league...

K.

Yep, it pains me to say this but right now the eredivisie sucks, there is not a single team that can play with the top teams in europe, the eredivisie is a league with a bunch of Uefa cup teams...no champions league team...this has to be the lowest this league has fallen in quite some time.

[DanK]

True.

Once again, by the way, the exact same thing went for Feyenoord and PSV...

Excelsior v Feyenoord 2-1
NEC v Ajax 1-1
VVV v PSV 1-1

Something's wrong in this league...

K.

Thats an interesting point. Have the 'lower' teams gotten better, or the 'better' teams gotten worse? Combination of both?

Its not really that the better players are playing overseas, this has been the case for many years now.

I think the problem lies mainly (in Ajax's case anyway) with consistency and motivation. Ajax can pull out a brilliant display, and we all think 'C'mon boys - Keep it up', then the next week they will play a shocker against a 16th or 17th positioned team.

I guess it does keep the league more interesting though.

[SE6Ajacied]

Apparently VVV away is a pretty tough fixture!

And, iirc, didn't we drop all three points there last year

err, I think you're right about it being a tough trip, small intimidating ground and all that but they only got promoted last season and we've not played them in years.

I think you're talking about Excelsior from last season.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The second sentence was a reference to NEC away last year.

I was being sarcastic (if it isn't obvious -- sometimes it doesn't come across).

I must be less pedantic . You're right about NEC, 2-2 draw, our 2006 Christmas present from the team.

I guess it does keep the league more interesting though.

Well the KNVB at least must be in two minds about this situation. For one it doesn't show of their top teams in the best light but it also extends the season as a contest, bigger gates and all that and presumably far more viewers on TV.

It's funny though that it seems to be the same few teams tripping up the top teams all the time though. We've certainly had our problems at Excelsior, NEC and VVV this season and lat (for the first two). That suggests a big problem motivation wise on their part too in that they're up for the big games but not for the week to week stuff. I suppose that's fairly standard but it does seem to be the same few teams who are tripping us all up.

[dws]

Apparently VVV away is a pretty tough fixture!

And, iirc, didn't we drop all three points there last year

err, I think you're right about it being a tough trip, small intimidating ground and all that but they only got promoted last season and we've not played them in years.

I think you're talking about Excelsior from last season.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The second sentence was a reference to NEC away last year.

I was being sarcastic (if it isn't obvious -- sometimes it doesn't come across).

Both wrong. It was at Vitesse we dropped all 3 points in a 4:2 reverse after having led 0:2 at the break.

[Philippe]

what about Suarez' off-side on the late goal ?

[Kowalczyk]

Thats an interesting point. Have the 'lower' teams gotten better, or the 'better' teams gotten worse? Combination of both?

A combination of both, but the main reason for the current situation is the latter: the 'better' teams have gotten worse.

The development that the 'weaker' teams are getting stronger is not new - and not specific for the Dutch league. Look at the average World Cup qualifier: major football nations like England or Italy or France (or Holland, for that matter) never beat a team like Luxembourg or Malta or the Faeroe Islands by 12-0 anymore. Those days are over. Even the weakest teams are now pro's (rather than amateurs, which they used to be in the past). They do powertraining, they know how to dig in and they know how to destroy a match. Generally, they're really up for it against stronger nations, whereas the players of those stronger nations hardly seem interested.

Let's call it the 'South Korea effect': no-one in the world will seriously claim that the Koreans were a side of higher quality than France or Italy in 2002. All they did was prove that a well-trained, well-coached bunch of mediocre footballers can seriously torture a far more talented team by simply wanting it more. Work ethic is the key to success, these days. More so than pure talent, it seems.

But as I said: that's a general development in global football, which has been obvious for about ten years now. As for the Dutch league (or any other league): it would be interesting to check whether the difference in points between the champions and the bottom team has gotten bigger over the years. Perhaps. Perhaps not. I'll look into it some day. But I do believe that, in general, the lower teams in the Eredivisie look more solid than they did in the 1980s. They're a bit harder to beat, is my general impression, but perhaps the statistics would prove me wrong.

This season, specifically, I do believe that the so-called 'Big Three' (or 'Big Four', if you count AZ) are of very, very, very poor quality. PSV and Ajax have annual budgets of 65 million euros. Feyenoord have a budget of 45 million. That's way more than the rest. The difference is enormous. But for some reason you just don't see it on the pitch. The top sides generally have more talent (and more options) upfront, so they tend to score more easily - and win the majority of their games that way. But the actual football? You just don't see a real, undeniable difference in class.

For example: if you take the average game from the mid-1980s and colour all the players on the pitch grey with Photoshop or something, it would still be a piece of cake to tell which team was Ajax - and which team NEC. A matter of skill, pace, passing, accuracy, swagger and movement. Yesterday's game? No way. Ajax didn't have more possession. They didn't have a tactical plan that was in any way more superior. The average Ajax player didn't even look considerably more skillful. The real difference in pure football status was very, very small indeed. If not non-existent. The difference in talent is there (it must be...), but you just don't see it. Ajax have more talent than NEC, but they lack the power to give an undeniable demonstration of it, if you know what I mean. And once again: the exact same thing can be said about VVV vs PSV. This goes for Ajax, but for PSV, too. Let alone Feyenoord and AZ.

So, did the 'rest' get better? I would have believed that if two or three Dutch representatives were having excellent campaigns in Europe (this was the case in 1998, for example, when four or five were still in Europe after the winter break). But no: it's an extraordinarily poor season for The Netherlands. Even PSV are very obviously of lower quality than in recent years. No Dutch team is making an impact at the moment. They can knock the ball around, but they can't crack it. Ajax and PSV could easily lose to the champions of Denmark, the Czech Republic, Austria or Bulgaria at the moment. They could win (if they have a bit of luck, and if Huntelaar and Farfan convert the chances), but there is no visible, tangible difference in pure football class.

I watch every Ajax game, but I've seen a few PSV matches in their entirety as well, and I must say it's... poor. No plan, no structure, no control. Just very ordinary football, with loads of mistakes, and in most cases - sooner or later - a decisive goal from a forward the big clubs can afford, but the smaller ones can't.

The Dutch 'Big Three' would not survive the average Champions League group at the moment. And Holland's numbers 4 to 8 wouldn't make any kind of impact whatsoever in the UEFA Cup? Twente, Heerenveen and Groningen? We're raving about them in Holland because the big ones are so shit, but they could crash out of the UEFA Cup against any side from Romania, Belgium or Hungary. Or worse.

Not even necessarily because they're technically/tactically inferior, but - once again - because they can't crack it.

K.

[Kowalczyk]

what about Suarez' off-side on the late goal ?

He was an 'inch and a half' off-side.

A human eye can never spot that, so the linesman just gambled - and happened to be right. That's always a bit bitter. In the same split-second he could also have decided to keep his flag down.

But that's irrelevant. Suarez was off-side.

K.

[SE6Ajacied]

Both wrong. It was at Vitesse we dropped all 3 points in a 4:2 reverse after having led 0:2 at the break.

and that was Christmas/New Year as well wasn't it. I know it was 2-2 against NEC but couldn't remember the scoring sequence.