World Cup 2006

[SE6Ajacied]

Well that was fun wasn't it? At least the two stars from the picture on top of my TV (Babel and Maduro, after training a couple of years back) got a game but the British ITV commentaters (Ooh-Yeah and Kowt especially got on my nerves) seriously need to go to pronounciation school now!

Anyway, Kuyt (Kowt?) looked good I thought, all over the field and potential quarter final NL -v- England will be interesting.

I'd be intersted to hear, apart from DanK who has said, how would others on this board be viewing NL against their "home" teams in terms of who to support? I've always been a fairly luke-warm England fan anyway but this one would be a real test......

[Van der Vaart]

God is this Holland boring.... And seriously, we don't have a single good striker.
Van Nistelrooy is fucking transparent and Van Basten played Kuyt on the left.... I mean what the fuck... So Portugal it will be. Tough one again. Let's hope for a good result.

I didn't understand why Marco played Kujit on the left and v Persie on the right. I suppose because they could cut back and shoot? In any event, they didn't look that good.

And how did Jaliens get on the team? I didn't see the whole game, but from what I saw, he looked like crap.

Not so crap as de cler :pukey: :pukey: :pukey:

Jaliens deffended well ,against Tevez

[carcajou]

Not so crap as de cler :pukey: :pukey: :pukey:
Jaliens deffended well ,against Tevez

I totally agree on De Cler, but I think that Jaliens was not that great either. And SERIOUSLY Van Nistelrooy is a ghost on the pitch...

[aveslacker]

Well that was fun wasn't it? At least the two stars from the picture on top of my TV (Babel and Maduro, after training a couple of years back) got a game but the British ITV commentaters (Ooh-Yeah and Kowt especially got on my nerves) seriously need to go to pronounciation school now!

Anyway, Kuyt (Kowt?) looked good I thought, all over the field and potential quarter final NL -v- England will be interesting.

I'd be intersted to hear, apart from DanK who has said, how would others on this board be viewing NL against their "home" teams in terms of who to support? I've always been a fairly luke-warm England fan anyway but this one would be a real test......

I think if the US played Holland, I would support the US, although I would still be happy if Holland won because they would still be alive in the tournament. Other than that, it is Holland over any other team out there.

[Kowalczyk]

Van Nistelrooy just isn't there... Absolutely useless.

Otherwise: good result against an Argentina side that was actually taking this game seriously. They wanted to win it, but didn't. Fair enough. Well done.

K.

[Feest]

Argentina wanted to win it, but didn't have to.

Holland had to win it, but couldn't.

I'd say the latter is far worse.

I wasn't impressed with Holland, at all.

[dws]

Why all the negative comments about de Cler, Jaliens and Van Nistelrooij?

Tim de Cler played a decent game. He looks a far better defender than Gio van Bronkhorst. Jaliens did ok.

Ruud Van Nistelrooij needs some support from the midfield .... the midfielders in the Portugal game will have to get up in support of Van Nistelrooij or he will remain ineffective. I can recall Oranje games where Van Basten was just as ineffective as Ruud because of a lack of support from the midfield.

[Jinne]

Argentina wanted to win it, but didn't have to.

Holland had to win it, but couldn't.

I'd say the latter is far worse.

I wasn't impressed with Holland, at all.

Ah well, you predicted a dramatic result for the Dutch. Didn't see that happen. There's also a difference btw of 'had to win' to stay in the tournament or simply ' had to win' to avoid one of our bogeyteams.

Not that I was convinced by Oranje, but still...

[ajaxperu]

There was one player that got me a bit worried in the first games and that was Sneijder. But today I thought he played much better, he got more action and was able to distribute the ball well. Van Nistelrooy was just a shadow in this game, I wanted to see Huntelaar so much in this world cup but well he'll just have to wait. But after seeing how Ruud is playing lately I think Huntelaar wont wate too long.
Not a bad game but nothing great. The Portugal one will be a tough match. I've seen their games and they start out really well with an impressive offensive football but then they just stop for a bit and they loose their power. It will be an interesting game to watch and I'm sure Holland will win :xyxthumbs:

[mick]

I hate to say it guys, but i said it long ago.....it's a big mistake not taking seedorf to the world cup....he's an absolute world class midfielder...and if someone calls him a dissenter, well who did he idolize and have to look up to as a young footballer? some of the biggest dissenters football has ever seen in gullit and van basten :nooo: Could use him shooting from just outside the box.....sorry guys

[ZoefdeHaas]

Seedorf can't shoot for shit and will cause tension in the squad because hes a twat.

Since Holland weren't pushing it can't say much about their performance, though I thought the midfield didn't do too bad.

Portugal won't be easy, but won't be so difficult. Unless Maniche, Miguel or Ricardo (WTF) start faking.

[Manneken Pis]

I don't want to play the "rose coloured spectacled" fan here but I think you're over-reacting folks.

We were missing 3 first choice defenders, and held the best attack in the world (yes I know they left out two players too, but name me a better team in the tournament).

Van B was forced to play VdV and Wesley (v Bommel rested), a combo that's NEVER worked for Oranje, nor Ajax if we're honest. Personally, I would have tried Kuijt in central midfield, as he's a battler who drives the ball forward.

Up front RvN got zero, but I mean ZERO service from midfield, and only limited service from the flanks (the only true winger was rested).

Please remember this team hasn't lost a competitive game in two years, and was statistically (FIFA ranking based, which I know isn't perfect but there's nothing better) in the toughest European qualifying group and toughest finals group...with players predominantly from the Eredivisie.

MvB had the courage Dicky Advocado lacked to clean up shop and remove the old mafia. He's taken a very inexperienced team very far, very quickly. He's taken decisions I didn't agree with many times and he's been proven right.

Cut the guy some slack...

:xyxthumbs: :yes: :worshippy: :headbang: :bis: :eusa_dance:

[Kowalczyk]

Excellent post, Manneken Pis. Very well put - and 100% agreed.

K.

[jamcocteau]

I'd be intersted to hear, apart from DanK who has said, how would others on this board be viewing NL against their "home" teams in terms of who to support? I've always been a fairly luke-warm England fan anyway but this one would be a real test......

NL V your home country. There can only be one answer to that question - your home country. Anything else is just stupid in my opinion, you cant suddenly become another nationality. You can choose your partners, friends, even football clubs but you cant choose your nationality. I have lived in NL for 5 years but at the end of the day I am 100% Scottish, that is where I was born, educated and raised. Doesnt matter whether I have a Dutch ID, pay Dutch taxes, speak the language, have Dutch mates, shag the Dutch birds ;) I can never be Dutch. Might admire their football team but support them against my own country - forget it.

In fact my two highs and lows in living here were the Scotland v Netherlands play offs in 2003. After the win on the Saturday in Glasgow, nothing gave me more pleasure than flying back on that plane being the only Scot on board or walking round Amsterdam for a few days after it. Nothing has given me more hurt than after the Wednesday night match, was fucking awful for a long long time afterwards, couldnt face going out and was seriously down. Sorry but never support NL when playing my own country

Lived in England too for 3 years, would I support them - ha ha not bloody likely !!!!! :D

[carcajou]

I'd be intersted to hear, apart from DanK who has said, how would others on this board be viewing NL against their "home" teams in terms of who to support? I've always been a fairly luke-warm England fan anyway but this one would be a real test......

NL V your home country. There can only be one answer to that question - your home country. Anything else is just stupid in my opinion, you cant suddenly become another nationality.

Yes you can.... I never supported France and never will. Go Holland.

[jamcocteau]

I'd be intersted to hear, apart from DanK who has said, how would others on this board be viewing NL against their "home" teams in terms of who to support? I've always been a fairly luke-warm England fan anyway but this one would be a real test......

NL V your home country. There can only be one answer to that question - your home country. Anything else is just stupid in my opinion, you cant suddenly become another nationality.

Yes you can.... I never supported France and never will. Go Holland.

How can you suddenly become another nationality - have you lived in Holland, were you brought up there, at the end of the day you can support their football team but you are French not Dutch. Will you feel the same pain as a Dutchman when they get knocked out the World Cup - I dont think so.

[DanK]

I'd be intersted to hear, apart from DanK who has said, how would others on this board be viewing NL against their "home" teams in terms of who to support? I've always been a fairly luke-warm England fan anyway but this one would be a real test......

NL V your home country. There can only be one answer to that question - your home country. Anything else is just stupid in my opinion, you cant suddenly become another nationality.

Sorry SE6Ajacied, I know you said APART from me... :D

Jamcocteau, I see your point, but here's my 2 cents (actually its probably worth more worth 1).

Yep, I'm an Aussie (not your Croc Dundee type, nor your outback cobba shrimp on the barbie type either, yet I am Australian as Arthur Dunga that lives next door, or Leo Wanka that lives across the road. I was born here and have spent 99% of my life here, yet I feel as Dutch as I do Australian. I think you will find as most Australians being part of a country that is roughly 200 years old (well since it was invaded by the British!) and given its huge immigrant population has strong ties to the countries of their parents. Me included.

I grew up AS a Dutch kid pretty much. Not the type that wears clogs and puts fingers in the dykes etc, but one that was born into a totally Dutch environment.

My parents, grandparents, cousins, uncles, aunts etc were all pretty much from Holland. As a kid, I went along to Dutch carnivals where they picked a 'Prince' (my area had a fairly large 'clogwog' community), similar to those in that were held in Holland. I saw Dutch TV, or family video's from Holland, I even, and god this still haunts me to the bone...listened to (forced I might add!!!) Dutch music as I was growing up. Basically my life away from school was for all intent and purposes a Dutch one.

Sure if someone asks me what nationality I am (which wouldn't be asked if they heard me speak first btw!), I would say Australian - no doubt about it. However, this doesn't mean I feel any less Dutch.

I have great pride in the fatherland. I get offended if someone knocks or puts the country or its people down (unless its justified of course), just as much as I do if someone did this about Australia, hell I even was emotional when Holland finally broke their penalty hoodoo against Sweden at Euro 2004, just as I was when Australia finally made it to the WC. I even feel pride when I hear the Dutch national anthem.

I must admit, when Australia played Holland it was a really strange experience. I was happy with the draw. Sure I would have loved Australia to beat Holland, but not in the way I would want to beat Germany for example, but so people would maybe respect Australian football a bit more.

If you 'put a gun to my head' so to speak, I would probably say 51% i would go for Australia, and 49% for Holland. So, yep maybe you are technically correct about NL -v- your home country, but in truth its not always that simple.

If Australia plays Holland at any stage during the WC, if Australia lost, sure I would be disappointed, but then I would quickly take comfort in that pretty much my entire family and that large part of my heart would be over joyed that de Oranje won.

PS – Oh yeah, and of course I dislike the german team, but then that doesn’t count for much. Based on this I could be Dutch, English, French, Polish, German… ;)

[jamcocteau]

If you 'put a gun to my head' so to speak, I would probably say 51% i would go for Australia, and 49% for Holland. So, yep maybe you are technically correct about NL -v- your home country, but in truth its not always that simple.

Dan, thanks for the well written reply and something I can relate to. I can understand in your case split loyalties as you are an Australian of Dutch heritage, will happen to many many people the world over. Therefore you have a connection with the Netherlands, your ancestors were from there and that support for 2 countries is understandable.

My lack of understanding is people with no connection whatsoever with a country suddenly proclaiming that they are of that nationality and support that country against the country they were born and raised in. Completely baffles me- as I said I live here in NL, pay taxes etc but I am not Dutch, end of story - have no feeling for Dutch psyche, the hurt, the glories of the Dutch people are all alien to me - just the same as I would not expect a Dutchman to understand how it feels to be Scottish or to be a Scotland supporter. I wish the Dutch all the best for this World Cup but it is not going to put me up nor down if they win or lose during the tournament.

IMO international football is on a totally different level from club football and not something you can choose entirely at random like a club team, no matter what the feelings you have for your home nation.

Dan, one quick question with Croatia playing Australia this evening. What is the mood like down there considering the number of Croats down under and their influence in so many football clubs there.

[ajaxusa]

Ho hum I thought Holland played well, were committed to defending and did that nicely. They clearly missed some quality starters, but (it amazes me as I type it) De Cler did surprisingly well. Sneijder improved. Van Persie had an off game but he's really been great overall.

I was a little surprised that Holland didn't attack more especially since they had absolutely nothing to lose (draw/loss = same). But on reflection, while Portugal is the tougher opponent (Mexico is overrated), this result keeps them away from Germany until the final. The objective seemed to be: Dust off the REAL football and try it out. This was a preview of the knockout rounds; no more 4-0 results for anybody.

My prediction: Victory over Portugal, epic match vs Brazil. I can't choose a winner of that one because I don't think I've seen either side play their best football yet.

[ajaxusa]

My lack of understanding is people with no connection whatsoever with a country suddenly proclaiming that they are of that nationality and support that country against the country they were born and raised in. Completely baffles me

I see your point. I "root for" Holland when they're playing any other country but USA, but it's a completely non-visceral kind of support. It doesn't depress me when they lose, not really.

...and not something you can choose entirely at random like a club team, no matter what the feelings you have for your home nation.

Here's where we part company. ;)
I really didn't choose Ajax; I got suckered into them, and now I'm stuck with them. You can't imagine how much better it would be (strictly in terms of my ability to see them on tv, read about them in English press, buy the odd football pyjamas) to support ManU, Arsenal, Chelsea, or better yet an MLS team. I equate my support for Ajax with a happy single guy who (poor bastard) falls in love with some bird living in Amsterdam. Wish I could forget her (not really), move on to someone else closer to home, but nobody else would be the same. I'd just be cheating, on her and myself. So don't even bother.

Anyway, back to the World Cup. USA takes on Ghana in 15 minutes. My prediction.... ich, this be tough: 1-1, Ghana go through. :sad:

[Cedric]

My lack of understanding is people with no connection whatsoever with a country suddenly proclaiming that they are of that nationality and support that country against the country they were born and raised in.

I'm french at 100% but I support the dutch team at 100%. I don't give a shit of the french national team (of football) and I can tell you I won't be sad tomorrow if they fail to qualify. And I don't think I sould feel stupid for this.
It's just that I don't have that patriotic fiber which makes you support someone or a team just because of his nationality.

[carcajou]

I grew up AS a Dutch kid pretty much. Not the type that wears clogs and puts fingers in the dykes etc, but one that was born into a totally Dutch environment.

AHAHAHA. That's a good thing mate, cause I reckon they'd be pretty pissed off ;)

[carcajou]

My lack of understanding is people with no connection whatsoever with a country suddenly proclaiming that they are of that nationality and support that country against the country they were born and raised in.

Just to be clear about it, I never proclaimed to be Dutch. I'm as french as it gets, just not when it comes to football. Simple as that.

[aveslacker]

Well, this issue has been solved for me today. I'm rooting for Oranje.

It was sad to see the US lose a game they could have won. Ghana claimed that they were the "Black Brazil" but today they played a more like the "Black Italy."

Oh well, good luck to them. It is really hard to recover from a 3-0 loss in your first game. Other than that, I thought they did the best they could with limited talent.

Hopefully they'll do better in four years.

[Dubbel]

Just to be clear about it, I never proclaimed to be Dutch. I'm as french as it gets, just not when it comes to football. Simple as that.

I love the French national team. Always have. Together with the the Danes they are usually the only European teams worth watching as a neutral fan.

Btw, the Oranje results against Portugal are almost exactly opposite of the history against Argentina.

17-10-1990 Portugal - Nederland 1-0 (Q-EC)
16-10-1991 Nederland - Portugal 1-0 (Q-EC)
12-02-1992 Portugal - Nederland 2-0 (fr)
22-02-1995 Nederland - Portugal 0-1 (fr)
10-02-1999 Portugal - Nederland 0-0 (fr)
11-10-2000 Nederland - Portugal 0-2 (Q-WC)
28-03-2001 Portugal - Nederland 2-2 (Q-WC)
30-04-2003 Nederland - Portugal 1-1 (fr)
30-06-2004 Portugal - Nederland 2-1 (EC)