World Cup 2006

[Monkey Tonk]

The TV commentators in the U.S. seemed to spend an excessive amount of time in the first half slamming Heitinga... "by far the biggest liability on the Dutch squad" was one quote.

You mean Tommy Smith, the Irish ESPN commentator who has been annoying me for over ten years? The guy doesn't have a clue. He stuck with it too, even though Ivory Coast time and again singled out van Bronckhorst as weakest link in defense. Even though Van Bommel and Sneijder were terrible, to the point where we played without a midfield.

At least, I don't remember a midfield.

Did we have a midfield?!

[Cedric]

It goes against all my principles of how football should be played, and definitely against Van Basten's original intentions when he took the job (words like 'attractive' 'fresh' and 'attacking' football are now forgotten, it would seem).

So you definitively forgot something about Van Basten's philosophy...

"It's important to entertain the people, it's important they see something spectacular, but it's also important to play to win."
"But there's also the opponent and if they're strong, you have to decide if it's wise to attack because you also have to win. "

At least, he is not so naive...

[Monkey Tonk]

We're known as Orange Clockwork - Naranja Mechanica- around the world, for years of beautiful play. With very little to show for it.

If we win this World Cup (which would be a miracle) with ugly play, God bless van Basten. After that we'll go back to losing beautifully. K?

[Manneken Pis]

We're known as Orange Clockwork - Naranja Mechanica- around the world, for years of beautiful play. With very little to show for it.

If we win this World Cup (which would be a miracle) with ugly play, God bless van Basten. After that we'll go back to losing beautifully. K?

Amen, brother Monkey Tonk....

[Stevie Super Samba Skillz]

It goes against all my principles of how football should be played, and definitely against Van Basten's original intentions when he took the job (words like 'attractive' 'fresh' and 'attacking' football are now forgotten, it would seem).

So you definitively forgot something about Van Basten's philosophy...

"It's important to entertain the people, it's important they see something spectacular, but it's also important to play to win."
"But there's also the opponent and if they're strong, you have to decide if it's wise to attack because you also have to win. "

At least, he is not so naive...

In fact, that quote is far more recent, i.e. just before the World Cup. What he said in August 2004 is that he wanted "dominant, attractive football with initiative. The intention should be to have matches that the players and fans enjoy." Your quote only shows that he's changed his tune and that you are the one who has forgotten what his original aims were.

After Advocaat was gone, many lamented his at times dull style of play and wanted the old, attacking football back again. Van Basten was supposed to carry this out. Now he has transformed Holland into the new Italy.

I happen to think it's not naive to play attacking football out of principle. If you think it's naive, then you shouldn't really support Ajax. Possession football, playing in the opponent's half, with technical, stylish football, is how Ajax and Oranje got so much success.

[Cedric]

In fact, that quote is far more recent, i.e. just before the World Cup. What he said in August 2004 is that he wanted "dominant, attractive football with initiative. The intention should be to have matches that the players and fans enjoy." Your quote only shows that he's changed his tune and that you are the one who has forgotten what his original aims were.

After Advocaat was gone, many lamented his at times dull style of play and wanted the old, attacking football back again. Van Basten was supposed to carry this out. Now he has transformed Holland into the new Italy.

I happen to think it's not naive to play attacking football out of principle. If you think it's naive, then you shouldn't really support Ajax. Possession football, playing in the opponent's half, with technical, stylish football, is how Ajax and Oranje got so much success.

Well, I may not be a real supporter if you want, I don't mind, but you can't say Oranje has got so much success. In the end, they only won 1 trophy, and they are more or less seen as losers, always disappointing in big tournaments despite their nice play and their really strong team.

This year, it's not exactly the strongest team that Oranje have ever fielded and they are in one of the strongest group. And for me, it's naive to believe that this dutch team can play the football we all want to see against a team like Ivory-Coast, which was imo the strongest team yesterday.
Apart for the first quarter, I never thought Holland was able to impose and play its game. That's the problem for me and I don't think it's van Basten who tell his boys to lean back and to play like Italians. You can blame him for not being good enough and/or for not fielding a great team if you want, but to say he has turned this side into the new Italy is shocking.

Attacking football is not naive in itself, but you have to consider your team, the opponent and how he is the match. Then, you may come to the conclusion that you can't play attacking football, but in that case, most of the time, you have already the answer on the field....

[dws]

Oranje desperately need the central midfielder, be he Sneijder or VdV , to impose his game on the opposition. They also need a midfielder who will disrupt the opposition play and also clean up any mess. Without such players, I can't see them being able to play dominating football.

[ZoefdeHaas]

That's Van Gaal's 4-3-3, with an attack minded midfielder in the centre, while Van Basten has a fulcrum midfielder such as Cocu or Maduro

[AsgAarD_xxx]

I've just watched Portugal vs. Iran and it wasn't a good game in my opinion... It looked that Portugal have the easiest group, but they didn't show anything special in their first game and today as well. It seems that they are in a very good form if you look on the table - 2 games, 6 points, no goals ahead. I don't know, maybe they play such crap because they don't want to lose their power in a group stage, but it's a strange thing seeing Figo or Cristiano Ronaldo unable to kick a ball in a right way... I hope they'll change their play in the next round.

Now I'm waiting for the better (I hope) games in the second "Group of Death".

PS: Henk, have you won any money during this World Cup? I've lose almost all the money I have because of miracles such a Sweden vs. Trinidad & Tobago (0-0), Tunisia vs. Saudi Arabia (2-2) etc. :sad:

[dws]

That's Van Gaal's 4-3-3, with an attack minded midfielder in the centre, while Van Basten has a fulcrum midfielder such as Cocu or Maduro

It aint working, Zoef. Cocu has been horrible as have Van Bommel and Sneijder. Van Basten should be just a little bit more positive and consider moving Kuijt to the right wing which would allow him to play Van Persie as central midfielder. Van Persie has the ability to play in the central position .... he is also very quick and has a powerful shot. I know this all sounds a little desperate .... but no more desperate than persisting with a team that comprises of a goalkeeper three attackers a somewhat suspect defence and an AWOL midfield.

Maybe Van der Vaart will show some form in the next game .... he had some nice momments v's CIV.

[ZoefdeHaas]

Hopefully so, I'm looking foward to the Argentine clash, second team or not doesn't matter, Holland will need to show they have strength in all players and positions.

Update on Ghana's 2-0 over Czech, Grygera had a reasonable game, while Galasek was substituted perhaps because of his lack of pace but still did ok. Ghana attacked on and on all game, and I have respect for that.

[ajaxperu]

the ghana-czech republic game was really good. The czechs really missed Koller and Baros today, the forward that played for them really sucked in this game. Ghana was pretty solid, every time they attacked they were really dangerous and if it wasn't for Cech the score would have been a lot bigger. I was particularly impressed by Essien and Appiah, they were all over the field. I'm looking forward to the Italy game later on. Anything can happen in this group after this result.

[AsgAarD_xxx]

I agree. It was one of the best game on this World Cup. Ghana looked really great, even if they've missed a penalty kick and made a stupid off-side situation while they had a chance for 3-0. As you wrote - Grygera looked really good, but he does his best during the whole tournament.

It will be extremely hard for Czechs to advance from a group stage. They have to win in their last game against Italy. I don't believe that they are able to do that without their best strikers - Koller, Baros and - probably - Vratislav Lokvenc. Now they have only Jiri Stajner and Marek Heinz, which are - to be honest - not as good as the rest.

PS: Fu*king bets... I've lost my money again. I have to give up it while I have the rest of cash...

[SE6Ajacied]

From the bbc website

"Fans lose trousers to gain entry
By Harry Peart
BBC sports correspondent, Berlin

Football's governing body has explained why up to 1,000 Dutch fans watched a World Cup tie wearing no trousers.

Around 1,000 fans arrived for the Ivory Coast tie in their traditional bright orange trousers - but bearing the logo and name of a Dutch brewery.

To protect the rights of the official beer they were denied entry, so the male fans promptly removed the trousers and watched the game in underpants.

Fifa said an attempt at an "ambush" publicity campaign was not allowed.

Fifteen major companies have paid up to $50m (£27m) each for the right to be official partners at this World Cup.

The American firm Anheuser Busch, which makes Budweiser, won the exclusive right to promote and sell its beverage in the stadiums and other venues.

There has been a wider resentment in Germany that a US brewery has the exclusive rights in a country which prides itself on the quality of its beer and has very strict laws governing its composition."

Sounds like fun I think these must be those "Bavaria" beer trousers with braces. Lucky they weren't kilts as there's rumours that you where nothing underneath...

[aveslacker]

Well, it was much better stuff from the US today. They actually played like they wanted to be there. I'm proud of them. I thought they were clearly the better team, even though they played the second half with 9 men.

It is a shame that they had to overcome both the opposing team and the referee. He was a disgrace.

If anyone needs a reminder why Italian football is such a big, fat steaming turd pile of fucking shit should watch this game. They are a disgrace to humanity.

Fucking fuckfaces.

[FlaFlu]

I can understand you're upset, Aveslacker, but what did the referee do wrong in your opinion?

[aveslacker]

I can understand you're upset, Aveslacker, but what did the referee do wrong in your opinion?

There is no way the tackle by Mastroenni at the end of the first half was a straight red. A foul, sure. A yellow, maybe. But it was a heck of an acting job by whichever buttnugget Azzurri happened to have his pussy hurt by the play. No way that was a straight red.

And the yellow-red on Pope in the beginning of the second half was another botched call. Again, I can see it being a foul, but a card? Hell no.

It seemed like every time one of those douchebags fell over, the ref awarded them a free kick.

I do think he got it right on the disallowed US goal though.

And I'm pleased with the way they performed today. Wish they could have played like that/been as lucky against the Czechs.

[AsgAarD_xxx]

The referee was bad for Italians as well... I think that some of ref's won't show the red card for such accident. One thing is great - every team has a chance for advance, so the last games won't be played for nothing. I know that USA are in the worst situation, because they haav only one point, but they can win against Ghana with a form like today. Czechs won't have a easy game against Italy, so it's possible that Americans can do it! Great for the World Cup and - of course - for the fans.

[aveslacker]

The referee was bad for Italians as well... I think that some of ref's won't show the red card for such accident. One thing is great - every team has a chance for advance, so the last games won't be played for nothing. I know that USA are in the worst situation, because they haav only one point, but they can win against Ghana with a form like today. Czechs won't have a easy game against Italy, so it's possible that Americans can do it! Great for the World Cup and - of course - for the fans.

I think the ref was fully justified in showing the red to someone who elbows an opponent to the face, opening a gash on his head that makes him bleed all over the place.

But the Italians did suffer from a few bad offside calls.

[FlaFlu]

Hmm, I read your post and I'm sorry to say that I think you're opinion is pretty biased, Aveslacker.

I can understand you're upset, Aveslacker, but what did the referee do wrong in your opinion?

There is no way the tackle by Mastroenni at the end of the first half was a straight red. A foul, sure. A yellow, maybe. But it was a heck of an acting job by whichever buttnugget Azzurri happened to have his pussy hurt by the play. No way that was a straight red.

A hard sliding at full stretch right on someone's ankles without touching the ball is a straight red card. The fact that you're doubting that it was even a yellow tells me you're unable to be fair at the moment.

And the yellow-red on Pope in the beginning of the second half was another botched call. Again, I can see it being a foul, but a card? Hell no.

Pope touched the ball but he came in from behind and followed through. A yellow card offense, in my humble opinion.

Disallowing the goal was the right call as well. :xyxthumbs:

Ofcourse you can be happy with the way you're team fought to keep the game tied and even tried to attack for about 70 minutes of the game. Hats of to the US for that. And yes, that blatant elbow by De Rossi was a red card. Deep purple, actually.

[Ayman]

You know usually, when there is a bad referee, there is usually a bad game, but this one was enjoyable. Im just so glad that group is open. From the start I stated it was the group of death, along with Hollands group.

[Blind3]

Not enamored with Portugal v Iran , but Ghana's impressive performance and the hard scrabble US - Italy match were great viewing. Impressed with Grygera's performance. Sadly, his WC performances so far make me think he'll be bound for Italy for sure. Italy should be able to beat the Czech Republic . Unless those two nations pull an '82 Germany-Austria II out of the bag.

Between Brian McBride looking like an actor out of Braveheart , what with his face looking like it was painted red , and three red cards, I haven't seen so much red since, well, the Exotic Erotic Ball in NYC last night . OOPS... wrong forum for that kind of talk.

Forgive the homer ( not Simpson) in me , but I'm proud of the US for not doing an el foldo in what might have been the most important match in their football history ,save for their defeat of Mexico in 2nd round '02.

On the topic of commentators ,I much prefer the spanish language broadcasts of the matches as I agree that Tommy Smyth is insufferable. Also, the post match english language programming on Gol TV. Always like listening to former English first division mf , for Newcastle I think, Ray Hudson waxing poetic about the matches.He was an ould NASL player also, during the time of Cruijff and Jansen. He tells it like it is. He may be a US resident, maybe even a citizen now , but he calls 'em like he sees 'em.

[AjaxPDX]

Regarding the ref in the U.S.-Italy match...

First, here's an article about Larrionda published before the 2002 WC:

Thursday, January 10, 2002
Update 2002: Uruguayan referee suspended
By Dale Johnson

The Uruguayan FA have this week suspended five of their top officials for six months - including one referee who days earlier had been selected for the World Cup Finals.
Jorge Larrionda was due to be Uruguay's representative in Japan and Korea this summer but Matias Vazquez, president of the Uruguayan Football Association's (AUF) School of Referees, said FIFA would be informed of the ban and that soccer's world governing body would routinely be expected to endorse it - causing Larrionda to miss the tournament.
The bans were announced after a controversial three-month investigation by the AUF into alleged irregularities. Critics said the AUF had not made it clear what the irregularities were. Media reports speculated the investigations were sparked by claims made by other referees.

Yeah, he got yanked by his own FA because even they believed he wasn't a capable referee.

And second, FIFA has already announced (less than three hours after the match!) that they will look into the videos of the match to determine whether Larrionda is fit and capable enough to referee another WC match. I may not be an expert, but if FIFA is immediately questioning whether this guy should be allowed to step on a field again... hmm.

Personally, my biggest beef wasn't specifically with the red cards. They were all questionable reds (could've been yellow, could've been red), some refs will be extreme, some will be lenient... he just chose to be extreme every time and hijack the game. But at least he was consistent with always pulling out the red, I guess.

Instead, my biggest beef was that he fell for the Italian dives... you, I, and everyone else know that the Italian players are diving, cheating, whining, crying little girls... they are almost always that way, and they were definitely that way today... and yet this ref fell for their dives and flops almost every time.

:nooo:

[aveslacker]

Hmm, I read your post and I'm sorry to say that I think you're opinion is pretty biased, Aveslacker.

Don't be sorry to say that, it is absolutely true. :D

I don't think that Mastroeni should have gotten off scot-free, either. But I don't think that's a guaranteed red. I think many refs would give that a yellow.

And I looked at the Pope foul again; there wasn't even contact from what I could see.

In any event, the US still has everything to play for, and I'm happy about that.

And I still believe that the Azzurri were shameful today.

[ZoefdeHaas]

Everything has bias, but is it good or bad? ;)


F00kin hell, the diving and all by some of the Italian players..I thought the dirty days were gone