World Cup 2006

[bryan]

I don't think anybody understands that decision, to be honest.

[Ayman]

The only explanation is that Van Basten does not want a dilemma, which most managers want, confusing I know, o well, he is a young manager, they make mistakes, BUT NOT LIKE THIS!!!!

[666]

KJH scored 33 goals in the Mickey Mouse League, RvN scored 21 goals in a real competition.

VoH is the proper substitute for a brute force attack (remember Kieft against the irish at euro 88?), and RB can force his way to the goal from the left wing position.

You need a mix of different qualities in your collection of forwards. KJH will have to wait until RvN retires.

Not that the choice of strikers really matters, because our defense and midfield ensures that we have about zero chance of making it past the quarter finals.

[Ayman]

666 said:

Not that the choice of strikers really matters, because our defense and midfield ensures that we have about zero chance of making it past the quarter finals.

Are you high or what? in defense, Boularouz, Ooijer, Mathijsen, Heitinga, Kromkamp. They are quality. Midfield, we have van der Vaart, Cocu, Landzaat, Sneijder, Maduro, there is balance there. I just hope Van Nistelrooij pulls a hamstring, so maybe Huntelaar gets in, I dont want both Van Nistelrooij and Huntelaar in the squad, because MVB will get funny about who to pick to start a game.

[dws]

VoH is the proper substitute for a brute force attack (remember Kieft against the irish at euro 88?), and RB can force his way to the goal from the left wing position.

You need a mix of different qualities in your collection of forwards. KJH will have to wait until RvN retires.

I take your point about the need to sometimes rely on a battering ram striker( Kieft also did a good job in the game v's Egypt in '90). However, without KJH you only have two regular scoring central strikers, nameley RvN and Kuijt. If RvN gets injured do you move Kuijt from the right wing to play as the central striker or ...... do you opt for Vennegoor? :scared:

[Ayman]

I have to say Kuijt looks uncomfortable on the right wing, when I have seen him play in that position. Realistically the only player that could possibly adapt there is Denny Landzaat, maybe Babel, but only coming on as a substitute.

[Bert]

Landzaat on the wing? :dontgetit:

[Ayman]

Well, which other right footed player can play there, then again, both Robben and Van Persie can play in both flanks, and keep on switching.

[jakobg]

I think it's good for Ajax that Huntelaar wasn't picked, since he would have been even more attractive for the clubs in the big leagues if he would have done good in the WC. Anyway, it's sad for Huntelaar as a player, but his time will come. Next time he'll be sure to get a spot.

[Ayman]

jakobg said:

I think it's good for Ajax that Huntelaar wasn't picked, since he would have been even more attractive for the clubs in the big leagues if he would have done good in the WC. Anyway, it's sad for Huntelaar as a player, but his time will come. Next time he'll be sure to get a spot.

Dont be stupid! he is not exactly going to leave us just after half a season!

[666]

Have you seen any recent games with Heitinga, Kromkamp, Landzaat and Maduro? Imagine them playing like that against Argentina, Italy, Brazil or France.

For midfield that leaves Vaart, Sneijder, Cocu and van Bommel. And we all know what happens when you field Vaart and Sneijder. That worked out only once: back in 2003 against the Scots.

Are you high or what? in defense, Boularouz, Ooijer, Mathijsen, Heitinga, Kromkamp. They are quality. Midfield, we have van der Vaart, Cocu, Landzaat, Sneijder, Maduro, there is balance there.

[Per]

jakobg said:

I think it's good for Ajax that Huntelaar wasn't picked, since he would have been even more attractive for the clubs in the big leagues if he would have done good in the WC. Anyway, it's sad for Huntelaar as a player, but his time will come. Next time he'll be sure to get a spot.

Dont be stupid! he is not exactly going to leave us just after half a season!

It's not like our board hasn't bent over and taken it for a couple of mills before.

[dws]

666 said:

Not that the choice of strikers really matters, because our defense and midfield ensures that we have about zero chance of making it past the quarter finals.

Are you high or what? in defense, Boulahrouz, Ooijer, Mathijsen, Heitinga, Kromkamp. They are quality. Midfield, we have van der Vaart, Cocu, Landzaat, Sneijder, Maduro, there is balance there.

..... Ooijer is no more than decent

...... Mathijsen's recent form has not been encouraging

...... Heitinga? Depends on which version turns up

...... Boularouz - have only doubted this player during the return match v's Czech republic; Barros gave him a torrid time. Boula seemed vulnerable with a quick/strong attacker playing off his shoulder. Ivory coast have just the player to make Boula as uncomfortable.

...... Kromkamp - if he had remained with AZ I would have no doubts about him.

The midfield lacks a certain robustness ... no Davids, Wouters or Vink type of player. Recall how Oranje struggled v's a very ordinary but very physical Germany during Euro 02.

[Ayman]

Well, we have good defenders to take the place of the first choice of Mathijsen and Boularouz, they are Heitinga (awesome) and Ooijer (solid).
In midfield, I know Sneijder and Van der Vaart cant play together but if either plays and they have the likes of Landzaat or Maduro on one side of them that could provide flair in midfield, or on the other side if they have either Coco or van Bommel, there will be balance in midfield, and the No.10 player can support the No.9 player. Overall I cant complain on the national squad, except for the (KJH) obvious one

[bryan]

VoH is the proper substitute for a brute force attack (remember Kieft against the irish at euro 88?)

I'm not so sure. Kieft's goal against Ireland in 1998 came from a deflected shot of Koeman's. Kieft was in the right place at the right time, and there was some fucked up spin on the ball. It had nothing to do with brute force attack, it was more to do with good positioning by the striker and a bit of luck. Kieft's goal was more instinctual, a lot like a Huntelaar goal really. (Almost like his goal against Inter)

Van Basten is bringing Heitinga because he is "in form", yet he is not bringing Huntelaar who is possibly the most in form player in the entire preliminary Dutch squad. It really is a gobsmacking decision. If Advocaat was still manager then the press would be absolutely laying into him for not taking Huntelaar, make no mistake.

[Ayman]

bryan said:

If Advocaat was still manager then the press would be absolutely laying into him for not taking Huntelaar, make no mistake.

Lets just hope Van Nistelrooy gets injured and is out for over a month. Thats all we can do.........its time to say the rosary :eusa_pray:

[AsgAarD_xxx]

Some of van Basten's decisions were strange for me... Heitinga had one of the worst seasons in his career. Besides Holland will play with only one right winger (Dirk Kuijt)... KJH was one of the best players in Eredivisie, definietely better than VoH. Henk Timmer as a 3rd goalkeeper? In my opinion Westerveld was better, Gentenaar had very good end of season... If I were van Basten I'd rather take any young and perspective goalkeeper instead of Timmer...

But it was his decision and I think no-one of you would be angry or sth if Holland will win the cup ;)

[dws]

VoH is the proper substitute for a brute force attack (remember Kieft against the irish at euro 88?)

I'm not so sure. Kieft's goal against Ireland in 1998 came from a deflected shot of Koeman's. Kieft was in the right place at the right time, and there was some fucked up spin on the ball. It had nothing to do with brute force attack, it was more to do with good positioning by the striker and a bit of luck. Kieft's goal was more instinctual, a lot like a Huntelaar goal really. (Almost like his goal against Inter).

Bryan, You are right about the Kieft goal v's Ireland .... was a lucky goal off a shot that Koeman drove into the ground.

I can understand that the coach may wish to employ a target man during the last 10 or so minutes of a game, but the target man is not something which the Dutch have utilised to any extent. It is more of an English or Norwegian way of playing. God forbid that a situation arises where van Basten has only Vennegoor to play as central striker. In Vennegoor the Dutch have a striker ill suited to playing the sort of game which Kuijt and RvN employ. To make matters worse the Dutch are ill suited to playing target man football. Huntelaar should have been selected in order minimise the possibility of such a scenario arising.

[666]

Heitinga awesome? Ayman, send me some of whatever it is you're smoking! Heitinga has no business in the world cup, and Kromkamp spent an awful lot of time on the bench or worse since he left AZ.

Maduro had his moment of flair during the winning streak of april and may 2005. When Argentina or France (I won't even think about Brazil) switches to second gear they'll completely overrun Maduro and van der Vaart. Cocu won't be able to clean up the mess on his own and then we'll only have van Bommel to come to the rescue. I'd leave Maduro home and take Davids to Germany.

We could use KJH as a backup for RvN, but we're not short on strikers. If we take him as an extra center forward (and leave Babel home) we'll only have three players for two positions on the wings. That's definitely not enough. Leaving Babel home is a good idea, but then Castelen should take his spot.

We've had a lucky draw: we'll face Portugal or Mexico in the first knockout round. If we manage to beat Germany or England in the QF (we probably won't) we'll meet Brazil, Italy or France and it's all over.

Take a close look at this team and count the number of european cup finals. We have too many players for which the world cup will be too much, too soon.

[Ayman]

666 said:

Heitinga awesome? Ayman, send me some of whatever it is you're smoking! Heitinga has no business in the world cup

He will prove you wrong, if he gets a chance.

If we manage to beat Germany or England in the QF (we probably won't) we'll meet Brazil, Italy or France and it's all over

If we end up meeting germany in the quarter finals that means we have topped our group and we will either face France, Italy, or if they turn out to be a surprise package and knock both the former nd the latter, it may be ukraine in the semis. Not Brazil of they top their group.

[666]

If we end up meeting germany in the quarter finals that means we have topped our group...

...or that germany didn't top their group. Leave it to the germans to have a miserable start and get their act together later on.

[bryan]

If Holland get out of the group they could do well. The difficult thing is trying to get out of the group!

[DanK]

If Holland get out of the group they could do well. The difficult thing is trying to get out of the group!

I am actually a bit worried about Oranje getting out of the group. I think this WC will be more of a learning experience for us, then come Euro 2008 and WC 2010, look out as the world will be painted orange.

I hope I am wrong about this WC, but I just have this feeling we will struggle. Hopefully its not left to the Argentina game.

[Stevie Super Samba Skillz]

I think that, with the way the order of the games has panned out, it benefits Holland. I have the feeling both Holland and Argentina will simply win their games against Serbia (who don't have the players they used to have) and Ivory Coast (ok, two decent strikers and Kolo Toure, but that's about it, and no big-tournament experience), and the game between them would have less importance. Now if the first game were Holland v Argentina, then I'd really be worried...

[jakobg]

I think that, with the way the order of the games has panned out, it benefits Holland. I have the feeling both Holland and Argentina will simply win their games against Serbia (who don't have the players they used to have) and Ivory Coast (ok, two decent strikers and Kolo Toure, but that's about it, and no big-tournament experience), and the game between them would have less importance. Now if the first game were Holland v Argentina, then I'd really be worried...

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Serbia were rock solid in the qualifiers, unbeaten conceding only one goal. And I'm sure Ivory Cost, with nothing to lose, will get at least a draw from either one of the two favorites (Argentina or Holland that is). The group is very hard to predict, in my opinion.