General Football Discussion

[Kowalczyk]

There's an interesting discussion about the quality of Scottish football in the Ajax Coaches thread... which is not the appropriate place for it. Let's continue it here. Here are my two cents.

Rangers, Celtic and Hearts are of a similar standard to the top four in Eredivisie; Hibs could be compared to Utrecht and Groningen.

I think you're right for this specific moment in time, and I surely don't want to diss Scottish football, but I do think the Dutch clubs are normally on a slightly higher level. Holland have (and always have had) a considerably higher score on the UEFA ranking than Scotland. Which means - no matter how you look at it - that Dutch clubs perform better in 'Europe' than Scottish clubs over all (and I'm not talking about the 'golden seventies' here, as the UEFA ranking is based on the past five seasons).

Celtic's shock win over Ajax in 2001 was more or less the exception that proved the rule. In recent seasons AZ beat Rangers and Feyenoord beat Hearts. In both cases the final score looked quite 'ordinary' (1-0 and 2-0, respectively), but the difference in skill and over-all quality was quite big, I must say. Rangers and Hearts were thoroughly outplayed and could have lost by a very big score.

I think the Scottish league could be compared to the Belgian league, for example. If the 'A category' is England, Italy, Spain, Germany and France, Holland would be in the 'B category' (with Portugal and Greece, I guess) and Scotland would be in the 'C category' with Belgium, Turkey and a few others. I don't see how that observation could be unfair, as it corresponds with the UEFA ranking.

K.

[dws]

There's an interesting discussion about the quality of Scottish football in the Ajax Coaches thread... which is not the appropriate place for it. Let's continue it here. Here are my two cents.

Rangers, Celtic and Hearts are of a similar standard to the top four in Eredivisie; Hibs could be compared to Utrecht and Groningen.

I think you're right for this specific moment in time, and I surely don't want to diss Scottish football, but I do think the Dutch clubs are normally on a slightly higher level. Holland have (and always have had) a considerably higher score on the UEFA ranking than Scotland. Which means - no matter how you look at it - that Dutch clubs perform better in 'Europe' than Scottish clubs over all (and I'm not talking about the 'golden seventies' here, as the UEFA ranking is based on the past five seasons).

Celtic's shock win over Ajax in 2001 was more or less the exception that proved the rule. In recent seasons AZ beat Rangers and Feyenoord beat Hearts. In both cases the final score looked quite 'ordinary' (1-0 and 2-0, respectively), but the difference in skill and over-all quality was quite big, I must say. Rangers and Hearts were thoroughly outplayed and could have lost by a very big score.

I think the Scottish league could be compared to the Belgian league, for example. If the 'A category' is England, Italy, Spain, Germany and France, Holland would be in the 'B category' (with Portugal and Greece, I guess) and Scotland would be in the 'C category' with Belgium, Turkey and a few others. I don't see how that observation could be unfair, as it corresponds with the UEFA ranking.

K.

I pretty much agree with your analysis, Ko. I don't think anyone could argue with your assesment of Eredivisie being of an overall higher standard than the SPL. The clubs at the top of the SPL could compete for European football, but bellow Hibs only Aberdeen and Kilmarnock are 'normal' Eredivisie standard.Most of the rest would be relegation fodder or at best sub top Eerste Divisie standard.

However, I would argue that Scottish clubs outperformed their Dutch counterparts in the mid to late 60's and the early to mid 80's. Rangers featured in two CWC finals in the mid to late 60's and Celtic were crowned Champions of Europe in that period. In the early to mid 80's Dutch clubs regularly exited UEFA competition in the first or second round( I am aware that Ajax and Feyenoord were losing SF's in that period and that AZ reached the UEFA Cup final in their double winning season), whereas Scottish clubs (particularly Dundee Utd and Aberdeen) experienced a quite fruitful spell.

ps: Feyenoord beat Hearts 3:0 :D

[Kowalczyk]

However, I would argue that Scottish clubs outperformed their Dutch counterparts in the mid to late 60's and the early to mid 80's.

Oh yeah. Definitely. Dutch football did not even exist on an international level until 1969, when Ajax first made it to the Champions Cup final.

The only period in which Dutch football seriously kicked butt over-all was between 1969 and 1974. After that there were shorter periods of glory for individual clubs:

- PSV in 1978 (UEFA Cup), with a great 'PSV-dominated' Holland side in Argentina as a result (WC final).

- Ajax and PSV in 1987-1988 (PSV won the Champions Cup; Ajax played two Cup Winners Cup finals; the players of these teams brought Holland their Euro 88 triumph)

- Ajax in the first half of the 1990s.

As I said: before - say - 1968 Dutch football was nothing. The worst period after Holland had become known as a football nation was easily the early 1980s. Oranje failed to qualify for the WC 1982, Euro 1984and WC 1986, and all the clubs (including Ajax) were absolute dogshit in Europe.

The year of Holland's resurrection was 1987, in which Ajax won the Cup Winners Cup (totally unexpectedly) and Holland qualified for Euro 88, which was at the time their first major tournament in ten years' time.

K.

[dws]

The year of Holland's resurrection was 1987, in which Ajax won the Cup Winners Cup (totally unexpectedly) and Holland qualified for Euro 88, which was at the time their first major tournament in ten years' time.

K.

87 the resurrection :yes:

88 the crowning glory (for now) :yes:

The shoots of recovery? I would say: Ajax 4 Olympiakos 0 in season 86/87. :yes: Prior to that emphatic victory Ajax had consistently failed in encounters with opponents of Olympiakos's standing ( 3:4 v's Celtic in season 82/83 ... 0:2 aet v's Olympiakos in season 83/84 and the penalty shoot out v's v's Bohemians Prague in season 84/85).

[Over Pasanens Head]

A result that maybe of interest to a wee Scot who populates these boards:

Ryman Premier Division - Play-offs
2 - 1 Fisher Athletic v AFC Wimbledon [ Semi Final ]
Attendance 2,274

Bloody good crowd and the Final is on Satuday

[jamcocteau]

A result that maybe of interest to a wee Scot who populates these boards:

Ryman Premier Division - Play-offs
2 - 1 Fisher Athletic v AFC Wimbledon [ Semi Final ]
Attendance 2,274

Bloody good crowd and the Final is on Satuday

well so far so good for all the clubs I am interested in playing in these play-offs - Ajax and Fisher. Tonight is going to be an interesting evening - will be watching the Ajax v Groningen match and then home to follow the fortunes of the only team in Glasgow - Partick Thistle FC, as they are also involved in play off matches tonight.

Which baw brained fanny though up such a bloody system as play-offs, gieing me heart attacks all this.

C'mon ra Jags, Ajax and Fisher

[jamcocteau]

Is this the best tackle of all time - this is from the Germany v eh some other country bordering on to Scotland :D legends (and I use that word very loosely) match the other evening. The tackle was made by Boris Johnson, a mp, on a German player. What a tackle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWIUp19b ... s%20german

[Venezuelan Ajacied]

Is this the best tackle of all time - this is from the Germany v eh some other country bordering on to Scotland :D legends (and I use that word very loosely) match the other evening. The tackle was made by Boris Johnson, a mp, on a German player. What a tackle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWIUp19b ... s%20german

Looks like he's been watching too many EFL games :drecul2:

[SE6Ajacied]

Is this the best tackle of all time - this is from the Germany v eh some other country bordering on to Scotland :D legends (and I use that word very loosely) match the other evening. The tackle was made by Boris Johnson, a mp, on a German player. What a tackle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWIUp19b ... s%20german

Looks like he's been watching too many EFL games :drecul2:

bloody Tory, what do you expect, even if it was against a German!

[DanK]

Is this the best tackle of all time - this is from the Germany v eh some other country bordering on to Scotland :D legends (and I use that word very loosely) match the other evening. The tackle was made by Boris Johnson, a mp, on a German player. What a tackle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWIUp19b ... s%20german

Looks like he's been watching too many EFL games :drecul2:

whats wrong with this tackle? thats how the australian team defended before Aussie Guus started :D

[Over Pasanens Head]

Update for the Wee Jock:-

Fisher 3-0 Hampton & Richmond

Fisher gained promotion to the Conference (South) with a 3-0 win over Hampton & Richmond at Champion Hill.


Congratulations in order I do believe especially as Partick Thistle won their play-off semi-final.

[afckeeper95]

FC Copenhagen won the Danish title today. Although they lost away 0-1 to Odense BK, the only rivals - Brondby, who had to get 3 points at the same time, lost too 1-4 to upcomers Horsens. Brondby coach Michael Laudrup will most likely announce where he is coaching within a few days. Most rumors put him in Spain or Ajax, al though from what I can see on this board that is no longer viable. Anywho, just an update - once again congrats to Ajax on winning some silverwear :eusa_dance:

[Ayman]

afckeeper95 said:

FC Copenhagen won the Danish title today. Although they lost away 0-1 to Odense BK, the only rivals - Brondby, who had to get 3 points at the same time, lost too 1-4 to upcomers Horsens. Brondby coach Michael Laudrup will most likely announce where he is coaching within a few days. Most rumors put him in Spain or Ajax, al though from what I can see on this board that is no longer viable. Anywho, just an update - once again congrats to Ajax on winning some silverwear

I hope we get them in the champions league play offs, we can give em a right spanking 5-0 at home and 0-4 away lol :headbang:

[Blind3]

Boris, the Phiadelphia Eagles need you. The only German takeout I know of that is better is the food at the Kammstatter Volks Verein in Philadelphia.

[afckeeper95]

afckeeper95 said:

FC Copenhagen won the Danish title today. Although they lost away 0-1 to Odense BK, the only rivals - Brondby, who had to get 3 points at the same time, lost too 1-4 to upcomers Horsens. Brondby coach Michael Laudrup will most likely announce where he is coaching within a few days. Most rumors put him in Spain or Ajax, al though from what I can see on this board that is no longer viable. Anywho, just an update - once again congrats to Ajax on winning some silverwear

I hope we get them in the champions league play offs, we can give em a right spanking 5-0 at home and 0-4 away lol :headbang:

hehe Now that would be great! And just a big slap in some of my friends' faces as the Brøndby knock out was last year :D

[DanK]

Ahhhh Alex Ferguson...how many more talents can you piss off???

Ruud storms away after axe - Reuters

Manchester United striker Ruud van Nistelrooy stormed out of Old Trafford after he was axed from the final league game of the season against Charlton Athletic on Sunday (Monday morning AEST).

The Dutch striker went home after manager Sir Alex Ferguson selected teenage Italian striker Giuseppe Rossi to partner Louis Saha up front.

"There has been a couple of issues during the week which concerned me in terms of the spirit at the club, and on such an important day I just felt Ruud should be left out," Ferguson told Sky Sports.

"It's straightforward. That's all we need to say at the moment, we'll be discussing it with the club directors tomorrow and Tuesday and that's it."

Van Nistelrooy top-scored again for United this season with 21 league goals but speculation has surrounded the Dutchman's future at the club with the 29-year-old apparently falling out of favour with Ferguson in recent months.

The striker has often cut a glum figure on the bench in the final third of the season with Ferguson preferring a rejuvenated Saha to play alongside Wayne Rooney.

Saha scored the opening goal to set United on their way to a 4-0 demolition of Charlton which secured the second automatic Champions League place.

[Kowalczyk]

Ferguson is a wanker... What else is new?

K.

[Ayman]

A riot has broken out in Liedseplein between Ajax fans and the police. Come on boys, show em what your made of!!!! :cheer:

[AsgAarD_xxx]

I didn't know where to write this... I think it is better place than "Ajax Coaches". As told www.pilkanozna.pl, Ronald Koeman will be a PSV coach next season. He replaces Guus Hiddink, who has signed a contract with Russia.

For me it is good news :). What do you think?

[Frans]

A riot has broken out in Liedseplein between Ajax fans and the police. Come on boys, show em what your made of!!!! :cheer:

unbefuckinglievable. you're joking right.

[Kowalczyk]

Yeah, that's quite a daft post, Ayman...

Hope it was a 'slip of the keyboard'....

K.

[Ayman]

Kowalczyk said:

Yeah, that's quite a daft post, Ayman...

Hope it was a 'slip of the keyboard'....

I was kidding!!! Jesus...........

[Kowalczyk]

That's what I was hoping for, mate. That's what I was hoping for.

K.

[AsgAarD_xxx]

Whatever has happened, Cohen- major of Amsterdam- said that it was the last time when Ajax fans celebrate success on Leidseplein... He wants to find different place where supporters could do that in future.

source: Het Parool

[SE6Ajacied]

Whatever has happened, Cohen- major of Amsterdam- said that it was the last time when Ajax fans celebrate success on Leidseplein... He wants to find different place where supporters could do that in future.

source: Het Parool

This guy doesn't seem quite all there! I'm not condoning any of the violence or anything remotely like that but it's a fact that where you get crowds of people of any description, especially where access is free, then you will get a few nutters trying to spoil things.

I read somewhere else that that in NL the mayors are in charge of the Police. Call me a cynic but perhaps if a few more of them were around there wouldn't have been the trouble. I don't know, I wasn't there so perhaps that is wrong but I seem to remember something similar from him a couple of years back.

Fact is, crowds = crime whether it's theft or disordewr or whatever. Someone tell me if I'm wrong here but this just sound like a knee-jerk 'control' reaction (or was the violence really that bad?)