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Ajax Supporters' News

Bericht door Kowalczyk » do sep 01, 2005 9:05 pm

This thread is the place for discussions about specific "supporters' news", including stuff that has to do with combi travel, stadium bans, supporter transportation and security measures at football grounds. That kind of 'political' stuff. Here are three fine examples that show that politicians and police in Holland are slowly going crazy when it comes to dealing with the 'hooligan problem'...
Dutch hooligans kept at home by voice verification

AMSTERDAM, Sept 1 (Reuters) - Dutch hooligans will be kept in check by voice verification software which will ensure they are at home rather than supporting their favourite team.

The Dutch ministry of Justice wants to guarantee that fans do not break stadium bans imposed for bad behaviour.

A computer with voice verification software, developed by the Israeli firm Dmatec, will call banned fans on their home phones when the match is about to kick off.

The fans have to say sentences which have been agreed in advance and the computer is able to tell if the call has been put through to a mobile phone, the ministry says.

The trial will start soon in Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Arnhem for fans of the Ajax, Feyenoord and Vitesse clubs. (Reuters)
Twelve suspects respond to riot SMS

AMSTERDAM — Twelve people who were present during the riot at the Feyenoord-Ajax football match in April have turned themselves in to the authorities.

They were among the 17,000 mobile phone owners who received an SMS on Tuesday asking for their cooperation in identifying the rioters.

The mobile phones were logged as being in the area where football fans fought with police.

The SMS asked the recipients to surf to www.politie-rijnmond.nl on the internet and study photographs of the alleged hooligans.

The police said on Thursday they received another 40 "good tips" from people who were sent the SMS.

A spokesman said that the 12 suspects had gone to the authorities because "the ground had become too hot under their feet".

"We advise others to come forward. The quickest way to have your photograph removed from the internet is to turn yourself in," the spokesman said.

Previously unreleased photographs of the riots were shown on television during crime-stoppers programme Opsporing Verzocht on Tuesday. Other photographs of suspects were published previously.

"We are dong whatever it takes to catch the perpetrators of the riots," Rotterdam police chief Aad Meijboom told the programme.

He said his officers were working to arrest not only the rioters but also the spectators who egged them on. "They made the riot possible. If you are part of that group, you are jointly responsible," Meijboom said.

Henry Hambeukers, a spokesman for the Public Prosecutor's Office, emphasised on Tuesday that these people were not ordinary bystanders. "People who stand around shouting and roaring while dozens of others throw stones at the police are also liable for punishment for public order offences," he said. Expatica
I also received that silly text message from the old bill, fer fark's sake!

K.
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carcajou
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Re: Ajax Supporters' News

Bericht door carcajou » vr sep 02, 2005 6:53 am

The saddest part of that story being the fact that the supporters of Ajax, Feyenoord and Vitesse are concerned, but not Utrecht's.... What a lack of consistency.
meh :|

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Kowalczyk
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Bericht door Kowalczyk » vr sep 02, 2005 7:20 am

Yeah - they should have picked f*cking Den Haag for this 'pilot'.

K.
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Bericht door Kowalczyk » di jan 24, 2006 7:59 pm

This sucks.
The KNVB have the intention to penalize Ajax for the behaviour of some of the supporters during FC Utrecht vs Ajax of 27 November 2005. Ajax supporters are deemed guilty of the following facts:

- destruction of some 600 seats in the visitors section
- destruction of a glass 'separation wall' and fencing
- destruction of the pavement inside the visitors section and throwing bricks
- destruction of a security camera inside the visitors section

Given the seriousness and the scale of the trouble on 27 November the KNVB have sent Ajax a settlement proposal of one game without travelling fans (that is: Ajax will not be allocated tickets to the away section for one Eredivisie away fixture). This measure will be effective three weeks after 30 January 2006.

If Ajax do not accept the settlement proposal, the case will be forwarded to the disciplinary committee of the KNVB.
Okay, I guess Ajax should accept this. It really was quite bad over there so I guess we had this one coming. If they make a case out of this one we will get f*cked even worse. I don't exactly understand which game it will be. My first thought was: yeah, right, they bring this up now, so that they can screw us for Feyenoord away (nice and convenient for the Railways, as they're not really looking forward to having us anyway), but it seems like it can only be in the third week of February or later.

We'll see what happens, but this is shit.

K.
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SE6Ajacied
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Bericht door SE6Ajacied » di jan 24, 2006 8:42 pm

Kowalczyk schreef:
We'll see what happens, but this is shit.

K.
Too true, but if all that happened, I can't be surprised either. Like you though, I was doing the maths in my head as I was reading it to work out which game exactly they had in mind....Feyenoord away would do nicely I'm sure if they can sort it, perhaps the KNVB got their maths wrong if they can't!
Forza Haarlem. HFC Gone but not forgotten!

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Bericht door Snor » di jan 24, 2006 9:58 pm

Don't worry to much that the f-side will give up their boys. A bigger issue is that the police has been making pictures and video over the years and they have put together "a deck of cards" (sounds familiar). Police, the ME and the "stillen" all have cards so they can pick up the ones they are after.

So cover your face if you have to come into action and watch your back.

F-side for ever
F-sider since 3 years in Chicago missing my buddies.

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carcajou
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Bericht door carcajou » di jan 24, 2006 10:49 pm

Snor schreef:Don't worry to much that the f-side will give up their boys. A bigger issue is that the police has been making pictures and video over the years and they have put together "a deck of cards" (sounds familiar). Police, the ME and the "stillen" all have cards so they can pick up the ones they are after.

So cover your face if you have to come into action and watch your back.

F-side for ever
Where do you think you are ? On some hoolie forum or something ? :pukey:
meh :|

Van der Vaart
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Bericht door Van der Vaart » di jan 24, 2006 11:12 pm

Lets kill the kakkerlakken...

Just kidding..heheh...
I think that are good methods to stop these fighs...

I liked it...

But hooligans wont stop...they are in all the world :nooo:

Snor
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Bericht door Snor » wo jan 25, 2006 1:01 am

carcajou schreef:
Snor schreef:Don't worry to much that the f-side will give up their boys. A bigger issue is that the police has been making pictures and video over the years and they have put together "a deck of cards" (sounds familiar). Police, the ME and the "stillen" all have cards so they can pick up the ones they are after.

So cover your face if you have to come into action and watch your back.

F-side for ever
Where do you think you are ? On some hoolie forum or something ? :pukey:
It is not about being on a hoolie forum but about the way the police and politicians have been handeling the so called suporters problm. So why don't you go with a so called "combi" to the Kakkerlakken. Then you will find out how you are treated by the police. The Fside gets blaimed for a lot of things and the media just repeats what the cops told them without verifing what realy happenend. Let me tell you if a stupid cop is insulting me he is in for a treat.
F-sider since 3 years in Chicago missing my buddies.

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Over Pasanens Head
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Bericht door Over Pasanens Head » wo jan 25, 2006 9:47 am

Snor schreef:
carcajou schreef:
So why don't you go with a so called "combi" to the Kakkerlakken. Then you will find out how you are treated by the police.
I have been on the combi to a number of games (including F-Word) and I really cannot say that the treatment we received from the police in Rottingdam was any worse or better than anywhere else.
Well rock and roll is such a crazy drug,
It wraps you up in a great big hug

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Kowalczyk
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Bericht door Kowalczyk » wo jan 25, 2006 10:31 am

Snor schreef:It is not about being on a hoolie forum but about the way the police and politicians have been handeling the so called suporters problem. (...) The Fside gets blaimed for a lot of things and the media just repeats what the cops told them without verifing what realy happenend.
There definitely is some truth in this. I, too, am sometimes flabbergasted by police lies and the way the media report about it.

But this...
Let me tell you if a stupid cop is insulting me he is in for a treat.
... shows with what attitude you go to a football game (and it's also loudmouth bollocks). That's the difference between you and me, probably. I am sometimes annoyed by police behaviour, but I just shrug my shoulders and think "whatever, I'm here for the game". And I must say I, personally, was never insulted or otherwise treated in an unacceptable way by a copper.

Mind you: sometimes I do think they are asking for trouble because of the way they handle a group (and sometimes I even think they deserve trouble, so I'm not defending the police here). But even then: if you don't want to get involved, you just don't. It's a decision. In 99.99% of the cases it is completely up to you and there is always enough space to stay out of trouble.

Absolutely no reason to become violent. And I've been to hundreds of away games, so I know what I'm talking about. In general, on these combis you only get into trouble if you want to. And I'm saying this based on more almost fifteen years of experience with Ajax away games.

K.
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Bericht door English Eagle » wo jan 25, 2006 2:38 pm

I like this thread,i feel like ive been transported back in time to England in the late eighties.Can someone tell me if teams in Holland have "spotters" in the crowd when they travel away.In England in the late eighties there used to be police who tried to infiltrate their way into the away hard core to find out where & when the trouble would happen.Sadly,these people were so obvious it was funny.Is it the same in Holland ?.

Feest
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Bericht door Feest » wo jan 25, 2006 2:48 pm

Yup, the exact same thing.

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English Eagle
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Bericht door English Eagle » wo jan 25, 2006 2:56 pm

Thanks Steef.

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Philippe
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Bericht door Philippe » wo jan 25, 2006 2:58 pm

English Eagle schreef: police who tried to infiltrate their way into the away hard core to find out where & when the trouble would happen.Sadly,these people were so obvious it was funny.Is it the same in Holland ?.
about 10 years ago, one those guys, the notorious van Gageldonk, wrote a book about his views on the Ajax hardcore fans
Appie, stay strong !

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Bericht door Kowalczyk » wo jan 25, 2006 3:09 pm

English Eagle schreef:I like this thread,i feel like ive been transported back in time to England in the late eighties.Can someone tell me if teams in Holland have "spotters" in the crowd when they travel away.In England in the late eighties there used to be police who tried to infiltrate their way into the away hard core to find out where & when the trouble would happen.Sadly,these people were so obvious it was funny.Is it the same in Holland ?.
Yeah, the exact same thing. Those spotters are referred to as stillen (literally: 'silent ones') in Holland. They're quite thick. Sometimes you can even see them stepping out of a police car before the game, in their normal clothes. :D

K.
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English Eagle
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Bericht door English Eagle » wo jan 25, 2006 3:12 pm

philippe schreef:
English Eagle schreef: police who tried to infiltrate their way into the away hard core to find out where & when the trouble would happen.Sadly,these people were so obvious it was funny.Is it the same in Holland ?.
about 10 years ago, one those guys, the notorious van Gageldonk, wrote a book about his views on the Ajax hardcore fans
Really philippe,how close to the truth was it ?.In England there a quite a few books that are quite close to reality,John King being one of the better authors.I better say straight away that im not a "hoolie" before anyone gets the wrong impression.I do know most of Palace's "firm" though as most are in their late thirties like me,& i can tell you some good stories.For me though the football is the important thing. :hypocrite:

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Bericht door English Eagle » wo jan 25, 2006 3:13 pm

Cheers K,believe it or not ive seen the same thing happen :D .Its a small world isnt it?.
Laatst gewijzigd door English Eagle op wo jan 25, 2006 5:10 pm, 1 keer totaal gewijzigd.

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Bericht door Philippe » wo jan 25, 2006 3:24 pm

English Eagle schreef:
philippe schreef:
English Eagle schreef: police who tried to infiltrate their way into the away hard core to find out where & when the trouble would happen.Sadly,these people were so obvious it was funny.Is it the same in Holland ?.
about 10 years ago, one those guys, the notorious van Gageldonk, wrote a book about his views on the Ajax hardcore fans
Really philippe,how close to the truth was it
Never read it. But according to people I trust, it was rubbish. The kind of thing that are published just to make as much money as possible out of it. How else could it be anyway ?

If I can remember correctly, the guy can be seen on one of the many photos in the 25th anniversary F-Side book… sitting on a second ring section (not the F-Side stand)
Appie, stay strong !

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Kowalczyk
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Bericht door Kowalczyk » wo jan 25, 2006 3:35 pm

English Eagle schreef:
philippe schreef:about 10 years ago, one those guys, the notorious van Gageldonk, wrote a book about his views on the Ajax hardcore fans
Really philippe, how close to the truth was it ?
Hard for me to judge, as I'm not close enough to the source (and don't want to be). Fact is that Paul van Gageldonk is accused by firms of other clubs that he has a Feyenoord tendency and gives too much 'credit' to their firm and not enough to others. Nowadays he can't show his face anywhere because almost every firm in the country accuses him of lying... Now what does that mean? That he was too far away from the truth or perhaps to close to it...? I don't know.

By the way: Van Gageldonk was not a copper but a 'hooliganism reporter' for Nieuwe Revu magazine (at the time anyway). A bit like the guy who wrote England Away.

Ajax are the most hated club in Holland, so almost every hooligan in Holland will tell you that those 'Yids' are cowards and always run away. The truth is different, though: I was in a TV program not too long ago with a police guy specialized in hooliganism and a guy from the L.I.S. (National Coordination Point for Supporters Projects).

They were unanimous: Feyenoord, Ajax and ADO Den Haag still have the by far largest and most dangerous firms, that cause the police the most trouble. They added that the Den Haag support is relatively easy to follow: there's the hooligan element and the 'normal people'. The hooligans are mostly together and their behaviour (where? when? with how many?) is relatively easy to predict.

At Feyenoord and Ajax the differences between the 'old guard' and the 'new breed' is much more complicated multi-faceted. There are many different groups that are interested in different types of violence. Some will go on the rampage inside the stadium; others are hardly interested in that and keep a low profile during the actual games. There are leaders and followers, and different 'new breeds' with their own leaders and followers. Etcetera. Feyenoord, Ajax and Den Haag still have the worst (and the most) nutters, according to these guys.

Don't shoot the messenger; this is what they told me.

If you don't know the history of Dutch hooliganism you might be a bit surprised by the fact that Den Haag are so notorious, as they are not a top club and have low attendances. But they are from Holland's third city in size and are the Dutch equivalent of Millwall.

Utrecht and PSV have large firms as well, but don't really compare. Clubs like Twente, Groningen, NAC, Vitesse, NEC and Den Bosch also have serious firms. At other clubs there are small groups of local troublemakers that would hardly qualify as a 'firm'.

K.
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Bericht door English Eagle » wo jan 25, 2006 4:38 pm

Thanks K.Im just off to see the lads play at Southampton now so i will get back to you.I did know about ADO by the way.Take care all.

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Bericht door Per » wo jan 25, 2006 8:44 pm

I know many of the firm boys in my local team.

They're just like any other of my mates, except for having the occational fight with other firms.

I must say, that I'm very ambiguous about this topic. I would never resort to violence myself. In fact, I've never even been in a fight since I entered my teens. Still, I tend to think that the hooligan issue is often very exaggerated and that there is no black and white supporter world.

No answer in this post, just a random thought. Sorry 'bout that.
Why do you build me up? BUTTERCUP!

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Kowalczyk
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Bericht door Kowalczyk » wo jan 25, 2006 9:31 pm

Some news on another fixture that got a little bit out of hand last season: Feyenoord vs Ajax. We all remember the chaos around last year's edition, don't we?

For a while it looked like the Dutch Railways (NS) were going to refuse to provide transportation for the Ajax supporters to Rotterdam, but Ajax and NS reached an agreement after all. However, if it goes wrong again we're f*cked.

This was just published on the English version of Ajax.nl:
http://english.ajax.nl/show/id=118083/contentid=45603

K.
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Bericht door English Eagle » do jan 26, 2006 1:19 pm

Should have stayed with this topic yesterday & given Southampton a miss,never mind.Ive always been aware of the problems you have in Holland with ADO,Ajax v F-word etc & would have imagined that most clubs have their hooligan element.In England i would say there isnt a club in the top two divisions,with the exception of Crewe,who dont have a "firm" & so i wouldnt imagine Holland as being very different.What i found interesting in the original posting was that Holland seems to be a mirror image of England about 15-20 years ago when the government saw it fit to ban away fans etc.I know you have i.d. cards(club cards) to help combat the problem,or to identify who to ban,but the problem wont go away.Is this because you have regional rivalries that reveal themselves through football,because that what its about here.

I have to say over here the problem has never gone away,but has moved away from the grounds.The press here wont report it because its no longer "news" unless someone is killed.So happily for someone like me,who takes his kids,to go to a football match here is usually trouble free.I still love the extra atmosphere produced by a local derby though,& i think its that "buzz" that makes most of us go to games & not just sit at home.Just a few thoughts,hope it isnt too boring.

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carcajou
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Bericht door carcajou » do jan 26, 2006 1:51 pm

Speaking of assholes in football (hooligans), there are other problems plaguing our sport :

racism and violence on the stands and on the pitch :

www.youtube.com/player.swf?video_id=4aF8Gq4-iiw&l=269
meh :|

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