Players Leaving Ajax

[SPL]

Sorry I put my thoughts on another thread and then the next thread I read is this one and you are all discussing it. 5 young locals have to be put there.

[Philippe]

why locals ?

[carcajou]

Because. You know..... Well, I guess we agree ;)

[aveslacker]

Stay focused Bertrand! Stay focused! ;)

[ZoefdeHaas]

Dortmund want Pienaar should Rosicky leave

[Kowalczyk]

The story of the day in the Dutch press is that Chelsea are making a move for two Ajax talents from the Dutch U-17 team, namely Sarpong and Goossens. Chelsea scouts 'discovered' the duo at the World Cup for U-17 teams in Peru and have reportedly given agent Søren Lerby instructions to try and get the youngsters to sign for Chelsea. They are youth players, therefore do not have a professional deal at Ajax just yet, which means they can go for the standard 'development fee' of 300,000 euros.

Chelsea never contacted Ajax about this, which is totally and completely against the 'code of conduct', or 'gentlemen's agreement', if you wish. Ajax are not amused by this. In newspaper Algemeen Dagblad Ajax's general director, Arie van Eijden, is quoted saying that he finds it 'absolute madness' that clubs like Chelsea and Arsenal are looting European youth academies in this manner and he said he has good hopes that the players and their parents will have the sanity to ignore this bollocks and choose for Ajax until their children have the age for a professional deal at the club.

These people are seriously destroying football as we know it. Perhaps it's time to start an underground 'European Supporters Army' and start assassinating certain people. Count me in.

K.

[dws]

Chelsea can F*ck off ! When i read of such things i just want to :fundamentje:

Arie van Eijden, is quoted saying that he finds it 'absolute madness' that clubs like Chelsea and Arsenal are looting European youth academies in this manner

Something has to be done about such parasite clubs or there will be very little reason for clubs such as Ajax or Barcelona to invest in youth development. In order for this bullshit to stop there requires to be a uniformity in the area of contract law which is giving rise to this problem.

Chelsea never contacted Ajax about this, which is totally and completely against the 'code of conduct', or 'gentlemen's agreement'

Even if Chelsea had made contact with Ajax it dose not in any way lessen the the distaste with which we should view such approaches.An approach by the book erodes the viability of youth development in just the same way as an 'illeagal' approach.

I is i illuminating how the main protaganists, clubs such as Chelsea and Arsenal, of such approaches have next to no track record of player development.

[GangstaRiB]

Totally agree, Ko! The Bosman-arrest was already disasterous for the Dutch football, but if rich clubs come and "steal" youth players, there will be nothing left for Holland/Ajax. How I hate those rich clubs, with obscure oil-money. Is it so hard for them to start their own youth academy? If these transfers are made, it will be very very sad. Chelski will buy them, put them on the bench... well better said: put them in some kind of youth team. Sarpong en Goossens will be number 100 and 101 in the line!

And then the whole approach to the players, its disgusting! Again: when this deal is closed, all the "smaller" footballnations will be death in a few years. Hopefully Arbramovic gets arrested on someday, on the account of money-laundering, so that his role in football goes away.

[carcajou]

These people are seriously destroying football as we know it. Perhaps it's time to start an underground 'European Supporters Army' and start assassinating certain people. Count me in.
K.

The good question being "Which people ?". The big clubs ? Or rather the little spoiled kids playing for Ajax youth to whom (I've got the feeling whom should be used here but maybe 'who' ? SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN) we provided the best trainings and game vision and who aren't gratedful at all in return ?

Someone has got to realize that the REAL problem is that they don't have a passion for Ajax if they leave, they go for money, because that's what cares in modern football. EVERYBODY knows that moving at age 17 leads in 80% of the cases to human disasters. But Chelsea's got a name and a loaded Russian sponsor called Abramovich.

So of course the way Chelsea is doing business is a shame, but betraying your club is a shame too. If these kids decided not to move abroad and to show some pride and fidelity to Ajax, then this problem wouldn't even exist in the first place.

PS : I don't know why but my English is even more gibberish than usual today, probably the effect of work-related stress :D

[het zwarte gat]

Totally agree, Ko! The Bosman-arrest was already disasterous for the Dutch football, but if rich clubs come and "steal" youth players, there will be nothing left for Holland/Ajax. How I hate those rich clubs, with obscure oil-money. Is it so hard for them to start their own youth academy? If these transfers are made, it will be very very sad. Chelski will buy them, put them on the bench... well better said: put them in some kind of youth team. Sarpong en Goossens will be number 100 and 101 in the line!

And then the whole approach to the players, its disgusting! Again: when this deal is closed, all the "smaller" footballnations will be death in a few years. Hopefully Arbramovic gets arrested on someday, on the account of money-laundering, so that his role in football goes away.

Perhaps the consequence is that we should have the American system, where all clubs have a fixed budget. And where youth development has been organized by some independant development centers. In the US the clubs can draft players in a predetermined sequence.
This would give a more equal playing field in my opinion.
But of course the EU will not allow this 'slavery' system, because in principle workers are free to move in the EU.

Anyway, without the EU the 'big-rich-club-problem' would not even exist. Furthermore we don't want to kill the Ajax youth development scheme. This could be the result of introducing the draft system, although if the situation keeps unchanged Ajax youth education is to be destroyed anyway.

So, if Ko is lining up a team to assassinate certain (Russian?) people, then I'll form my own team to throw a bomb at Brussels.

[AsgAarD_xxx]

The worst thing, in my opinion, is fact that we cannot stop this proceder. If FIFA or UEFA made the rule, that, for example, clubs can't give the players more than XXX euro per month (I mean: wages will be limited) clubs may come round this rule and offer, for example, bigger money for scored goal, assist or whatever...

The only thing what may stops the players in club should be their love to this club (Yeah, I know... It seems a little bit romantic...). If players love their club they don't care about money. Look at Raul, Paolo Maldini or Danny Blind- they had offers from bigger and richer clubs, but they always stay in their one and only club.

[GangstaRiB]

In the US they have a salary-cap. Which is in my opion the only way for Ajax/Holland to play an important role in football. An other solution can be the BeNe-liga (Holland and Belgium). You instantly double the size of public interest, which attracts more company's. More viewers means more money out of tv-rights. And the level of play will be much higher. Now its only Ajax, feyenerd, psv of AZ who are really competing for the championship, but with Belgium tou have: Anderlecht, Club Brugge who are also pretty strong.

[Over Pasanens Head]

In the US they have a salary-cap.

I take it you would be in favour of a salary cap in your line of work then. :nooo:

[aveslacker]

I've been thinking about how a salary cap-type system might work in Europe, and I don't know if it is practical.

First off, the saying that "in the US they have a salary cap" isn't entirely accurate. Baseball, for instance, has no salary cap, but does have a revenue sharing program, whereby teams spread their revenue around.

The NFL, on the other hand, has a form of salary cap, as does the NBA.

It is worth noting that baseball's revenue sharing plan does not prevent the richest teams (Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox) from spending the most. It is also worth noting, however, that those teams don't win all that often, and that for every rich team that wins, there are also less wealthy teams that win, such as the Angels, Diamondbacks, Marlins and (hopefully) Astros.

The NFL, on the other hand, is characterized by severe parity - every team is likely to have a chance to win the super bowl. Players change teams quite a bit, perhaps more than in post-Bosman Europe. This puts a premium on good acquisitions and good coaching. It also keeps fans around the country interested for much longer. It is no surprise, then, that the NFL is hugely popular in the US.

But could that kind of thing work in the EU? I don't think so. First of all, labor laws would have to be harmonized across the EU, and I don't see that happening any time soon. Second of all, assuming that one could harmonize labor laws, setting some kind of salary cap or implementing some kind of revenue sharing would be very difficult to accomplish. And guess what, the same teams that are currently using the system to get what they want would still find a way to keep doing so. In the US, for example, the richest team in baseball (that would be the fucking Yankees) has found a way to use revenue sharing to pay for its new stadium. Subsidizing the richest team in baseball is not the point of the revenue sharing plan.

There are simply far too many moving parts to deal with when trying to arrange a salary cap or revenue sharing system that would have to take into account every professional team in Europe. Even if such an arrangement would include only the top-tier leagues in each country (a foolish thing to do, because clubs would start fighting for relegation), we're still talking about over a hundred clubs. Factor in every professional or semi-professional team, and I'm guessing the number would swell to over a thousand. The NFL and NBA, by comparison, are somewhere in the high 20s/low 30s in terms of clubs. (The NBA sucks too hard for me to even bring it up. I'm sick of those guys.)

From an athletic standpoint, such an arrangement (assuming the Herculean task of accomplishing the above were possible, or even desirable) could yield benefits for Ajax, at least on the European stage. But it could easily spell disaster for Ajax within the league. If parity does ensue (and it would), Ajax could possibly win the Champion's League or Uefa Cup. But it would be just as likely to lose the Eeredivisie to the likes of RBC, NAC, or ADO (curse be upon them).

So, what is the answer? For Ajax, the answer is simple. Keep developing talent. Sign them to 5 year contracts. Keep qualifying for Europe. If there is a player who is attracting significant interest, sell him with two years left on his contract for big money. Use the money to buy savvy players who fit into the Ajax system (perhaps a strong, exprienced defender) at value to complement the young guys. If there is a good, young Ajax academy-trained player who is attracting significant interest and who would stay at Ajax if offered something in the right price range, sign him. I have no doubt that a certain group of players would not mind staying at Ajax a la Danny Blind (even though he didn't come from the youth system). Repeat this process. Wins, attractive soccer (played in the Ajax style) and profits will follow, at home and abroad.

[Per]

I may be oversimplyfying this a bit, or maybe I'm plain stupid....but:

I have no problem with rich investors taking over clubs bying players...i.e releasing them of contracts and giving them contracts in their club. These are the rules we are playing by. Still the game itself doesn't allow a 100% assurance of winning, no matter how much money you spend.

It sucks when you developed players and they decide to leave but still, a contract is a contract. I for one thought the system before Bosman was a complete slavery system which was totally against all common sense and "normal" labor-laws. All in all it still boils down to the players own will.

I will admit that it might be hard turning Chelsea down as a 17-year old. But if you have god advisors around you a a common sense of your own, I think you can guess that if you're already with Ajax, there are other and smarter ways to make it into top football. Still, it boils to to a choice made by the individual, the footballer.

As for sharing revenue, picking drafts, having salary caps....to me that's just......strange. Now if you have decided that clubs can be corporations in the first scentance - why would you then take away liberties of acting like a corporation in the second one. Imposing these rules are just stupid in my book.

The rules are here, either we like them or not. Sure, we can try and change them, but I don't think "the american way" is the way to go. I think we should just try to adapt, accept and teach our youngsters about labor laws, the dangers of going to be a professional too early in life, the dangers of Chelsea ( :pukey: ) and basically prepare them as goos as possible. Accept that they will decide in the end anyways.

And in all honesty, how many talents from other clubs around in Holland and former Colonies haven't we taken for nickels?

Thanks for the word. I know it's incoherent and ranting. Apologies from the author left before hand.

Cheers

/ Per :headbang:

[SPL]

I too was very upset about Chelsea stealing our youth but having spent a couple of hours thinking about it there is only one club to blame here and that is Ajax.

These 2 lads were both 17 back in the summer and are talents having played for the Dutch U17's before this tournement. The other U17 Anita was given a 3 year contract but Ajax have decided not to give these 2 contracts yet .
Instead they have given contracts to alot of youngsters of 19 , coming up 20.Kok,Schilder,Timisela, Keizer,Kalkhuis will all be 20 before the end of the season and Boakye and Sahadewsing are already 20. One has to doubt whether these lads are going to make it but I mention them as Ajax have made a statement today that they can only give so many youngsters contracts.

A competition like the U17 World Cup is going to be watched by every big club so surely Ajax must have known they would be vunerable once the scouts knew that Gossens and Sarpong did not have contracts.??

I watched the second half of 2 games and saw enough of them to knowhat they have class. The comentator said of Gossens ' Ajax always promote a youngster into the first team squad in January and Gossens already looks as if he could be this seasons one.

So here we are a week after the competition and suddenly Chelsea have come in and decided to offer contracts.If Arnesen was still at Spurs then Spurs and not Chelsea would be the club we are hating.

Sure you cannot give every youth a contract but surely you make exceptions to your 2 most talented 17 year olds.


I do hope that these lads have the sense to stay as they will be lost at Chelsea. About 4 years ago we lost Sergio Hellings and Sherjl Mcdonald to Anderlect and they were both about 16.Neither made it with Anderlect and Hellings is now with Heracles and McDonald is shown as an Amatuer at Hamburg !.

Going to Chelsea could end up with similar stories for the current 2.


Finally , what we are now feeling about Chelsea the supporters of Antwerp's GBA must feel about Ajax.Van Damme sold for £2 m , De Mul , Vermaelen,
Aborah, Tiberkannine and Vertoghen here. They did not get a cent in transfers.

My final rant at the Ajax board is, they let Zlatan go for £10m to be paid over 5 years. De Jong,Pienaar, Trabelsi and Maxwell all in the final year of contract and probably we will get no transfer fees.

Please do not get me wrong I am pig sick that we may lose these 2 but unlike the rest of you I blame Ajax.


PS We did not give a contract to Evander Sno this summer , still only 18 years old, F-Word gave him a 2 year contract and he is already on the fringe of their squad.

[dws]

The simplest solution to avert this problem would be for the Dutch government to pass legislation to allow players under the age of 18 to sign some sort of professional contract with their club. Maybe Dutch Clubs and supporters should lobby their political representatives to facilitate such a change.

[SE6Ajacied]

But could that kind of thing work in the EU? I don't think so. First of all, labor laws would have to be harmonized across the EU, and I don't see that happening any time soon.

Well everything I would have said has been already so I'll just add one final point. I don't think the rest of Europe would want the UK's pig-shit labour laws so Aveslacker is right.

Politics :offtopic: :baaa: I know :D

[aveslacker]

I don't think the rest of Europe would want the UK's pig-shit labour laws so Aveslacker is right.

Are there laws preventing pig-shit from working in the UK?
:bis:

[Frans]

When it comes to salary caps I thought Arsene Wenger made the best analysis, something along the lines of "How can you stop a rich russian paying a player's Bulgarian grandfather $2million?"

As to the players in question, Ajax should put deals on the table, and quickly, and get them into Young Ajax even quicker, because the team needs all the help they can get right now.

[SPL]

Frans is right in the last post. Ajax need to offer contracts and get these kids signed up and in the Young Team. The 19/20 year olds I quoted earlier are being thrashed at present.

[dws]

In the US they have a salary-cap.

I take it you would be in favour of a salary cap in your line of work then. :nooo:

The EU wouldn't allow it .

I think i would be quite ameniable to having my salary capped if the top line were say £60,000 a week. I reckon i could just about get by on that. :D

mmmm .... where did i put my football boots?

[dws]

Players such as Sarpong and Goosens would be considered under UEFA rules, to all intents and purposes, to be products of Chelsea's youth development. This would allow Chelsea to alleviate the impact of any future UEFA edict limiting the number of foreign players in match day squads for Champions league and UEFA cup.

[DanK]

These people are seriously destroying football as we know it. Perhaps it's time to start an underground 'European Supporters Army' and start assassinating certain people. Count me in.
K.

The good question being "Which people ?". The big clubs ? Or rather the little spoiled kids playing for Ajax youth to whom (I've got the feeling whom should be used here but maybe 'who' ? SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN) we provided the best trainings and game vision and who aren't gratedful at all in return ?

Its an interesting point. You can't blame someone from moving to a "bigger" club...how many champions league have Chelsea won again? someone remind me please...but whats the point of Ajax investing in these players if they get up and leave before they even start playing and repaying some of the time the club has spent on them.

PS : I don't know why but my English is even more gibberish than usual today, probably the effect of work-related stress :D

Don't worry. English is supposed to be my first language and most of the time people still have no idea what I am talking about :xyxthumbs:

[ZoefdeHaas]

I dont see why people consider Chelsea a "big" club after few good seasons. Ofcourse theyre top now, and have a lot of money, but clubs like Man Utd., Arsenal, R. Madrid and Bayern are much bigger than Chelsea