General Football Discussion

[Kowalczyk]

for each country, prices for the least expensive season card for the 2 top-clubs :

" Angleterre. Chelsea : 936 €. Arsenal : 1 274 €.
- Grèce. Olympiakos Le Pirée : 510 €. Panathinaïkos Athènes : 270 €.
- Espagne. FC Barcelone : 260 €. Real Madrid : 411 €.
- Portugal. Benfica Lisbonne : 228 €. FC Porto : 240 €.
- Allemagne. Bayern Munich : 250 €. Schalke 04 Gelsenkirchen : 188 €.
- Italie. Juventus Turin : 220 €. Milan AC : 123 €.
- France. Lyon : 208 €. Lille : 125 €. "

We can add : Netherland Ajax Amsterdam : 157€

To which Steef replied...

Disclaimer: some countries have a larger league and thus more home games to attend.

some season tickets give access to other sporting events (hence Barca basketball, handball etc.)

some season tickets give access to domestic cup games.

K.

[carcajou]

Plus it also really depends on the average social status of the supporters.

In Marseille for example, the prices are really low because people don't have money but show a lot of passion.

I'm pretty sure the prices are higher in Amsterdam than in Rotterdam, if you get my point.

[Kowalczyk]

I'm pretty sure the prices are higher in Amsterdam than in Rotterdam, if you get my point.

I get your point (working class versus bourgeoisie, etcetera), but I don't believe it's true. Ajax do not have the highest ticket prices in Holland. I saw a ranking once and it struck me that Ajax was somewhere in the middle. The average season ticket at Heerenveen is more expensive, for example. Not exactly sure about Feyenoord... If I remember it correctly Feyenoord and Ajax were roughly the same, whereas PSV was slightly more expensive.

But it's definitely got to do with the social status of supporters: that explains the difference between Inter ('elite') and AC Milan ('the people'), for example. I'm sure it's the same if you compare Sporting ('elite') and Benfica ('working class'). Or Chelsea and Spurs. Or Lazio and AS Roma.

K.

[English Eagle]

"But it's definitely got to do with the social status of supporters: that explains the difference between Inter ('elite') and AC Milan ('the people'), for example. I'm sure it's the same if you compare Sporting ('elite') and Benfica ('working class'). Or Chelsea and Spurs. Or Lazio and AS Roma"




Not sure if its always social status,in many cases its the areas in which you live that allign you to the nearest team.In London, for example, these areas may include people from many social backgrounds. . . Millwall excepted of course!!!. ;)

[SE6Ajacied]

From bbc.co.uk

"Jonathan Woodgate suffered a torrid Real Madrid debut, scoring a spectacular own goal and then being sent off against Athletic Bilbao."

:D :headbang: :eusa_dance: :worshippy: :redcard:

[SE6Ajacied]

But it's definitely got to do with the social status of supporters: that explains the difference between Inter ('elite') and AC Milan ('the people'), for example. .

Well it's really coming to something when the "peoples" club is owned by such a man of the people as Berlusconi, but I get your point and historically you're right of course.

So I guess that makes OPH the man to know - Inter fan going by his previous posts. ;)

[Philippe]

it also really depends on the average social status of the supporters.

I don't think there is a significant gap between 150 € and 250 € per season. If you compare with some rock concert tickets prices, this is reasonable.
As for Ajax, my own season card is in vak 241, which I believe is among the less expensive, and I do not have the feeling of being surrounded with members of the local bourgeoisie (and I am quite glad about it).
But what is amazing with those figures is the very expensive price for those 2 London clubs.

[Kowalczyk]

for each country, prices for the least expensive season card for the 2 top-clubs :

(...)

We can add : Netherland Ajax Amsterdam : 157€

Erm... We're not one of the two top clubs... X'C

;)

K.

[SE6Ajacied]

But what is amazing with those figures is the very expensive price for those 2 London clubs.

Football in England is very pricey even at lower levels

Next week was always going to be a football week for me. My team Blackpool are playing Nottingham Forest in Nottingham on Wednesday night and I wanted to go (Blackpool have been in the doldrums for years and don't often play a league game against 2 time European Cup winners these days).

Anyway, then the CL drawe came along. I would have needed to stay one night in Nottingham, and get there by train. I worked out that if anything the hotel is Amsterdam would be cheaper than in Nottingham, the flight and train prices much the same price and although I don't know the price of my Ajax ticket yet as Ko has it, I think it'll be about the same or maybe just a touch more than level 3 English league (especially at a team/grounfd like Forset). No choice really - Ajax it is.

[English Eagle]

Im beginning to feel like an elite supporter........at a far from elite club.My boys season ticket would work out at 160 euros with mine weighing in at a hefty 500 euros,im posh aint i ?. ;)

[Kowalczyk]

I don't know the price of my Ajax ticket yet as Ko has it, I think it'll be about the same or maybe just a touch more than level 3 English league.

Your ticket for Ajax vs Arsenal is 30.15 euros. That's section 403 (slightly more expensive). Most of the Cockney Cloggies have a ticket for 26 euros. Mine (South H) is 18.85 euros (we had a season ticket holders' discount).

K.

[carcajou]

So I guess that makes OPH the man to know - Inter fan going by his previous posts. ;)

Is he ???

Are you OPH ???

I mean SERIOUSLY !!!

[Kowalczyk]

Is he ???

Are you OPH ???

I mean SERIOUSLY !!!

He is a very strange man. Wise. But strange.

Very peculiar indeed.

:D

K.

[Per]

......I've supported Inter since I was "intrigued" by the magnificent Germans (Matthäus in particular) during WC-90 ín Italy - who all played in Inter.......

I was 11 - but by god I'll stand by that choice.

"My name is Per - and I'm an Inter fan."

"Hello Per"

No comments. Not even on the German thing.

[Philippe]

The Germans were much better during the WC 86, and they had no connection with Inter then (unless Rummenige was already there, I'm not sure).
But you were 7 only so ...

[Manneken Pis]

But it's definitely got to do with the social status of supporters: that explains the difference between Inter ('elite') and AC Milan ('the people'), for example. .

The irony here is that AC was founded by Englishmen in Milan ("AC" = Athletics and Cricket)....the culture of the club at it's origin was therefore a little elitist, and in fact Inter was founded by Italians frustrated by this elitism. The original "people's club" wasz therefore Inter....

[Per]

But it's definitely got to do with the social status of supporters: that explains the difference between Inter ('elite') and AC Milan ('the people'), for example. .

The irony here is that AC was founded by Englishmen in Milan ("AC" = Athletics and Cricket)....the culture of the club at it's origin was therefore a little elitist, and in fact Inter was founded by Italians frustrated by this elitism. The original "people's club" wasz therefore Inter....

Aaah yeah, I read that AC stood for that. But isn't it also Assoziazione Calcio in some cases? There are other clubs with AC in the name aren't there?

[Over Pasanens Head]

So I guess that makes OPH the man to know - Inter fan going by his previous posts. ;)

Is he ???

Are you OPH ???

I mean SERIOUSLY !!!

Answers in order:-

Yes

Yes

Yes

Sorry to worry you C about my sanity but I am for my sins (when I get round to renewing it) a season card holder there plus a member of the Inter Club in London (because you get a discount on the season card if you are a member). Don't use it that often but it is worth the £70 last season just for the big games. Its another place I can get to in a day with return fares normally between £25 and £30.
BTW, there is also another member on this board who is a season card holder there.
I have been going there on and off since about 1979 time when I worked out there - I just love the stadium (my favourite) and I have never seen a bad, boring game there in all the years.

But don't worry too much Ajax is my true love.

As to being a bit on the strange side Ko - you are probably correct, but it is too late to change a habit of a lifetime :xyxthumbs:

[aveslacker]

Italy's new dictatorship
By Gabriele Marcotti



FLAVIANO TONELLOTTO, THE NEW owner and president of Triestina, illustrated last week just what type of man he would like to fill the Serie B club’s vacant management job. “Above all, he has to understand that I’m the boss,” he said. “It’s my team, my money, my players. So he has to do what I say. He’s not going to be the manager in the traditional sense, he’s going to advise me and only for a few months, until I get the hang of it. After that, I don’t care what he does.”
As job descriptions go, it is hardly the most appealing, but, nevertheless, Pietro Vierchowod, the former Sampdoria and Italy hard man, has taken up the challenge. “I wanted to get back into management and this is a job opportunity,” he said immediately after taking over. “But don’t ask me about the president. I don’t want to say anything, I don’t want to get into trouble.”



You cannot blame him. In the past three weeks, Tonellotto has fined no fewer than eight players, including the captain, vice-captain and star striker. The punishment was meted out for the most disparate reasons, from being seen out on the town the night before a match to questioning the dismissal of Vierchowod’s predecessor, Alessandro Calori, who had been in charge for only two games.

Tonellotto makes no apologies for his actions. In fact, he sees himself as a crusader, cutting through the hypocrisy of football. “Football pretends it’s a business, but then it runs itself counter to any rules of business,” he said. “Players and coaches think they are so important. They are not. They are employees. And that’s how they should be treated. They need to do what their bosses tell them to do. I am the owner, it is my team, so I am the boss.

“Why should I leave the coaches and players alone? They work for me. In any other field, it’s normal for employees to do the boss’s bidding, but in football we owners are expected to pump all this money in and then sit back and do nothing beyond watching a bunch of overpaid, poorly educated people spend our money and run our teams. Football is a world that is inherently abnormal and illogical. I’m being logical and I’m told I’m crazy.”

Tonellotto comes across as brutally cynical, but there is also a refreshing realism in his words. People own football clubs for a variety of reasons, but mostly they do so because they have something to gain, whether it be money, popularity or influence. A minority do it largely for personal enjoyment, because they are fans or because they want to sample the excitement of running a club. Tonellotto — like Roman Abramovich at Chelsea — falls into this last category. He wants to have fun. Yet, unlike Abramovich, Tonellotto does not trust a José Mourinho and a Peter Kenyon with his club. He wants to do it himself.

Tonellotto, a trained architect, made his fortune in property. Like many self-made millionaires, he has little patience for the conventional wisdom of football, in particular when it comes to the media and the fans. He has decided that everyone associated with Triestina (including himself) will charge for interviews this season.

“Why should somebody get our words for free?” he said. “Because we supposedly get publicity? Come on. We’re Triestina, not Real Madrid. Our time is worth something and if we are going to spend it talking to the media, we ought to get paid.”

As for the supporters, he spent most of last week meeting the club’s fans. The message was the same all along. It is his club, not theirs. If they want to watch Triestina, that is fine, but if they do anything he does not like, they will be sent home. He said that most of the supporters appreciate his honesty and that he can do without those who do not.

Tonellotto has a kindred spirit in Dimitri Piterman, the Alavés president, who also runs his club the way a manager would, with a puppet coach, Chuchi Cos, who does his bidding. Piterman previously held a majority share in Racing Santander, where he named himself as manager only to find out that he did not have the requisite licence. So he he hired Cos to act as the “official” manager, got himself a photographer’ s bib (so he could sit at pitch-side during matches) and ran the team from there.

Like Tonellotto, Piterman is outspoken about the sport’s established order. And he believes that his way makes sense, going so far as to suggest that Alavés are stronger than Barcelona and that anything other than a top-four finish for the newly promoted club would be viewed as failure.

Neither hides his contempt for the footballing establishment. They see it as an old boys’ club of former players — in coaching, management and the media — leeching on to the sport while offering little in practical terms.

The contempt, of course, is mutual. To the establishment, people such as Tonellotto and Piterman are arrogant, egocentric, publicity-seeking outsiders who are ignorant in the ways of football.

I'm not sure what to make of this guy, but I can't fault him for being dishonest.

[Per]

He is obviously very full of himself, I tend to like that kind of people. They are funny on so many levels.

He has some points, I don't ´like the pampering of the stars either, they get huge amounts of money to do something people tend to pay for doing otherwise and yet many of them behave like kids.

That football is a business not always run by businessmen is also a very true fact. Just look att whoever signed Soetars and you will see that there canät be a sound businessman behind that decision :xyxthumbs:

[carcajou]

My God !!!!

Did Tom Soeaters REALLY played for Ajax ??

I still can't believe it.....

[SPL]

Most papers in UK are of course going on about the charges of English clubs.

I paid £8 to watch Worthing which is in the 3rd level of Non League. I am told that if I wanted to watch Brighton in the Championship , 2nd Division to everyone else, it would cost me £22. They play in a small athletics stadium which is the worst ground in UK league. I am still amazed at how cheap Ajax is.

One day the bubble must burst in this country . My friend has just purchased
a season ticket for Arsenal's new stadium next season £ 3000 . And they still will never finish above Chelsea.

[SE6Ajacied]

30.15 euros. K.

Cheers Ko, that's amazing by English standards! I haven't bothered checking the prices for Nottingham Forest where I would have been going but I think they'll be at least that....and that's in League One (Division Three in old money)

[SE6Ajacied]

Brighton ..... They play in a small athletics stadium which is the worst ground in UK league.

Well, agreed the Withdean is pretty bad....I seem to remember paying £16.50 (I checked) four years ago for a seat where you couldn't even see the pitch hardly (As SPL says, it's an Althletics stadium with a big running track and a really small pitch in the middle).

Having been visiting Division Three level grounds down the years though, not sure if it's the worst. I know Springfield Park (Wigan) has gone but the Shay (Halifax) is still there - are they still in the league though?

[English Eagle]

The Withdean should have never have been given a licence to stage football,not at football league level anyway.My worst ground would be a toss up between Hartlepool(on a freezing tuesday night) or Oxfords old Manor ground(got soaked there one boxing day).