Amstel Cup

[Philippe]

I hope feyenoord will beat p$v this evening :

they will be easier to beat in the final, and I would not want p$v to beat us again and therefore win the double title and cup

[carcajou]

I hope feyenoord will beat p$v this evening :

they will be easier to beat in the final, and I would not want p$v to beat us again and therefore win the double title and cup

I back that one. I mean if we can win the Cup and finish second, now THAT would be a pretty good season after all (that would leave many questions open
about that big collapse at some point in the season, but still).

But in my opinion what we need the most is Champions League, screw the Cup...

[Manneken Pis]

I hope feyenoord will beat p$v this evening :

they will be easier to beat in the final, and I would not want p$v to beat us again and therefore win the double title and cup

Yup we've played Fword twice this year and outplayed them both times.....their draw at the Arena was undeserved, and P$V have out played us twice.

As for 2nd place versus the Cup....I agree with Carcajou, 2nd place is more important (although they're obviously not mutually exclusive). Before Blind took over I was happy with a UEFA cup place....a rebuilding year, easier opponents, less embarassement.....but in the last couple of games I think he's worked wonders, not just because we won, more because the team is playing like Ajax again....with passion, and with 'élan'.

[Philippe]

do you know where is the cup final ? rotterdam as always ??

[Kowalczyk]

do you know where is the cup final ? rotterdam as always ??

Normally, yeah.

But after Sunday...? Anything can happen. Different date, different venue, very small tickets allocations, clubs deciding not to play the final at all... God knows.

Whatever happens: even if we beat Willem II I betcha we will not be in De Kuip with 15,000 or 20,000 Ajax fans on 'cup final day'...

K.

[Philippe]

would you say that there is a possibility for Ajax to play the final at the Arena ?

[carcajou]

do you know where is the cup final ? rotterdam as always ??

Normally, yeah.

But after Sunday...? Anything can happen. Different date, different venue, very small tickets allocations, clubs deciding not to play the final at all... God knows.

Whatever happens: even if we beat Willem II I betcha we will not be in De Kuip with 15,000 or 20,000 Ajax fans on 'cup final day'...

K.

Seems that you read my mind on this one.... I was thinking about the scenario where Feyenoord beats PSV and we beat Willem.

BIG FINAL, THE CLIMAX OF THE SEASON :

Ajax - Feyenoord @ the Tub...

Potential violence. A solution could be a final at the magnificient Gelredome in Arnhem. Neutral and modern ground where the security could be looked after in decent conditions.

[Philippe]

most likely Ajax - P$V
where then would you say in that case ?

[Kowalczyk]

would you say that there is a possibility for Ajax to play the final at the Arena ?

No way... That would be a very strange 'reward' for everything that happened. If they decide to play the final somewhere else I guess it will have to be Arnhem, like Carcajou says (or Heerenveen...?).

But I don't think they'll do that. I think we'll end up playing at De Kuip, but my gut feeling is that we'll only get 1,600 tickets (for the normal away section), instead of 15,000 for each team.

If that happens Ajax should refuse to play (which they won't do...) and the fans should stay at home collectively and boycott the Amstel Cup. Our cup competition is a joke already (only four games and you're in the final if you play in 'Europe'). If we can't even organize a proper cup final in this country we might as well forget about the whole trophy and call it quits.

One thing is for sure: the KNVB will sigh in relief if PSV win tomorrow night...

K.

[Philippe]

I see, but if you follow this kind of reward logic, don't you think that it would be undeserved for feyenoord to have the final played in their stadium ?

[Kowalczyk]

I see, but if you follow this kind of reward logic, don't you think that it would be underserved for feyennord to have the final played in their stadium ?

In a way, except that De Kuip has been the 'official' stadium for the cup final for many years (just like the ArenA is the 'official' venue for the Johan Cruyff Shield). Playing at De Kuip is the normal situation. If they decide not to stick with the normal situation and play somwhere else, it would be odd if they chose for the stadium of a club that's 1) playing the final and 2) regarded (by them anyway) as the reason why it can't be played at De Kuip.

In other words: if they final is played somwhere else than in Rotterdam, it won't be Amsterdam. They will probably look for 'neutral territory' if that happens. But again: I don't think it will. I think they'll end up f#cking with the ticket allocations, or play in a half-empty stadium or something, if only because the Dutch Railways decided today not to transport Ajax supporters anymore for the time being...

By the way: I will publish a news report about the whole thing soon, but I'm a bit busy today (and tomorrow)...

K.

[Blind3]

If we beat Willem II, I see the final at Arnhem as suggested.With an added police presence no matter who we play.The Gelredome is a 25k seater(30k?), so that makes sense.To have a final in Rotterdam invites problems.Especially if it's a 3rd Classic .I could actually see such a match being closed but televised. An 010 final v. PSV could bring a third set of high risk supporters into the mix.Still a potentially TARFU(Things Are Really F****D Up) situation.

A final v. 010 in Eindhoven,while Philips Stadion is 34k seats, invites 3 A-risk supporters to a day out also.

Can't see the De Krap being used if Ajax get thru.KOM OP AJAX!!

[aveslacker]

KOM OP Ajax!!

Ahh, it's good to see you getting back into your old ways!

[Blind3]

THANKS.Finally something to get excited about over the last several weeks. :headbang: I hate post-mortems and tend to keep schtum ...except where the idiocy of the brass hats is concerned...when there's little or nothing good to say.

[Kowalczyk]

THANKS.Finally something to get excited about over the last several weeks. :headbang:

You're right...

Is this the 'Blind effect'? He had a disastrous start (even though no-one blamed him for PSV and Heerenveen, it was still terrible to start with two defeats), but he kept his cool and started working on precisely those things that didn't work under Koeman: the midfield and the wingers, in particular.

And look now!

Pienaar is picking up form, De Jong is back, Sneijder is getting the 'feeling' back, Maduro is having his big break... We're actually playing Ajax football now...

We're not there yet and Blind's real start as Ajax's head-coach will be next season, but in the short time he's been there he's already done some surprisingly good work, I must say. Seems so anyway.

K.

[carcajou]

And look now!

Pienaar is picking up form, De Jong is back, Sneijder is getting the 'feeling' back, Maduro is having his big break... We're actually playing Ajax football now...
K.

And you can note that those players are all from the youth ranks (well Pienaar not the same as the three others but still), Blind knows them really well. That is why I keep wondering why De Ridder never gets a chance to show up.

[Philippe]

Our cup competition is a joke already (only four games and you're in the final if you play in 'Europe'). If we can't even organize a proper cup final in this country we might as well forget about the whole trophy and call it quits.
K.

The Cup is not more thrilling in other countries.I do not think that it takes more rounds to reach the Cup final in Italy for instance. Not to mention France where there are two (yes 2) Cups, both qualifying for the UEFA.

[Kowalczyk]

You're probably right. Even the F.A. Cup in England is losing some of its prestige. The DFB Pokal in Germany is still popular, but elsewhere? There are so many games to play for most teams (league, Europe, friendlies, national teams, some friendly tournaments for cash...) that the biggest clubs are kind of losing interest in the domestic cup competition.

The Italian cup is probably the worst: I've seen footage of a semi-final with Juventus in it a few years ago and there were less than 3,000 people at the Delle Alpi. No-one gives a rat's c##k about the cup over there. And Man Utd destroyed the reputation of the F.A. Cup by considering (not sure if they did it, eventually) to not participate at all, because they had an invitation for the (unimportant, but lucrative) 'World Cup For Clubs' tourney.

The Amstel Cup (formerly KNVB Cup) has actually improved in the past ten years. It was completely and totally dead in the late 1980s and early 1990s: low attendances, no-one cared and every season there was a lot of hassle to find a date and a venue for the final. Especially if the final was a risk game, no city in Holland wanted to host the final. It was always somewhere else. No tradition.

But then the KNVB decided to start a tradition: the venue for the cup final was De Kuip and the date was 'Ascension Day' (a bank holiday in Holland). And it worked: the cup came back to life. The principle of a 'road to De Kuip' made the whole thing more interesting to the public - and by the time of the quarter finals there was actually something like 'cup fever' going on, especially in the towns of smaller 'cup fighters'. We've had a few really exciting finals at De Kuip and not always between predictable finalists. Clubs like Roda, Heerenveen, Fortuna, Twente and Utrecht made it to the final and came to Rotterdam with 15,000 or 20,000, sometimes 30,000 fans. Great. Sometimes it felt really 'English'.

Then the KNVB made a major mistake: they decided to introduce a group system in the first round, in which amateur and First Division clubs slaughtered each other - so that they were almost weeded out by the time the big ones entered. From that moment the competition had the structure of a tennis tournament: it was 'pre-cooked' and based on a schedule, so that everyone knew exactly which opponents he would bump into on the way to the final. I remember one season in which Ajax already knew that we couldn't clash with PSV before the final. Boring.

This made it very, very predictable and boring. Luckily, they've dropped that system again. It's now 'knock-out' from the first round: a hatful of non-league sides, two reserves teams, the whole First Division and 12 out of 18 Eredivisie teams go into the bowl - and then we draw. No seedings. That's the way it's supposed to be. That's what makes cup football interesting and exciting (potentially). The only lame thing that's still in effect is that the teams playing in UEFA competition enter in the 4th round (only three rounds before the final).

I can understand the problem: the CL and the UEFA Cup have group rounds nowadays, there are a lot of qualifiers for national teams and it's hard to squeeze in all kinds of cup games against tiny clubs. But still: I feel that all of the clubs should be in the bowl from round 1. If you feel you're too busy for it, then bow your head and lose. The risk of Ajax and PSV bumping into each other in the first round, while some amateur club makes it to the semis - I love that idea.

Anyway, my point is: the UEFA participants entering in round 4 is the only thing I don't like about the current structure. Otherwise it's okay. The KNVB actually turned the dead KNVB Cup into something nice. That's why it would be such a damn shame if we give that away by playing a final in an alternative stadium, on an alternative date and with small ticket allocations. That would murder the whole thing again, just now that we've created some sort of a cup tradition.

That's why I want to urge all parties involved: make sure that we'll have a REAL final again. Even if it's Ajax vs Feyenoord. Play it at De Kuip and allow both clubs to bring 15,000 fans as usual. It's the only way to keep the Amstel Cup alive. Otherwise it will drop back to the point where it was in the early 1990s.

K.

[Blind3]

Not learned enough about cup competitions,number of matches ,etc..to offer up anything intelligent .So why is this different from my normal posts? Good point says I. Be that as it may, I was perusing Amstel Cup.nl and found interesting tidbits about Vennegoor of Hesselink being out for tonight and that the participation of Cocu and Ooijer is in question. Hate to lend F-word a lifeline in anyway,but this might be one.

[aveslacker]

Am I the only one who would rather we play PSV in the final (should we make it there)?

[Blind3]

My flippant side would say yes you are the only one.Realistically though,Ajax can only control their own destiny on this one.I say JUST WIN BABY.The other half-finale will sort itself out . Besides, alot can happen between now and May ...injuries,suspensions,etc..

[Blind3]

In tonight's fixture between clubs I despise, 010 leads the Candystripers 1:0. Salomon Kalou after 4 minutes.

[Blind3]

Nicky Hofs,010, gele kaart on 7'. Following along on www.amstelcup.nl

[Kowalczyk]

Feyenoord once again conceded a goal in the last minute (well, okay, the 89th...): 1-1 final score. Game's now in extra time.

PSV deserved the goal, I must say. Two goals by Robert were disallowed in the second half - God knows why (both should have stood). It was great to see Ruud Gullit stare at the sky when the ball went in... :D

K.

[Blind3]

Looks like penos .1:1 if the web update is to be believed.PSV's Farfan missed the Striper's 2nd kick after Verdommel and Yoko Ono converted.