Ajax - PAOK Saloniki CL Qualifier

[Ayman]

All Ajax need is one goal, so it's not so bad. They need to work on their long passes across the pitch, they missed their player 3 or 4 times.

[Tom_]

Frank de Boer's probably shaking his head, saying "I could have got a 0–0 out of that!" ;)

[Amol]

Frank de Boer's probably shaking his head, saying "I could have got a 0–0 out of that!" ;)

Hahaha

[saddlerian]

Well, I've been sitting in a bar in Agios Nikolaos, with a lot of Greek PAOK supporters...and they have been laughing!!! I don't blame them!!! This is possibly the WORST Ajax "team"...group of players, that I have seen for many a year!!! This "COACH" has now cost the club many millions of € cos they are out of CL now.....GET RID OF HIM NOW!!!!! He seems to mouth "attacking football" but it was just the same talentless defensive rubbish again!!!!! The Greek supporters around know that I coach the local under 16s team...even saying that "your team would do better, any time!". Yes, that pleased me....mainly because "my" lads always give 100% effort and try to win....and they do it for the love of the game, not the many 000's of € that Ajax pays it's "players"! I said before that I would not be going to Thessalonika even though it's only a €40 flight away.....I wouldn't go now if it was free!!!

[Orange14]

Well, I've been sitting in a bar in Agios Nikolaos, with a lot of Greek PAOK supporters...and they have been laughing!!! I don't blame them!!! This is possibly the WORST Ajax "team"...group of players, that I have seen for many a year!!! This "COACH" has now cost the club many millions of € cos they are out of CL now.....GET RID OF HIM NOW!!!!! He seems to mouth "attacking football" but it was just the same talentless defensive rubbish again!!!!!

Either you were drinking too much ouzo or you didn't watch the same match I did. this was an aggressive attacking Ajax side that will only grow into the matches to come. I don't think it's fair to criticize Bosz at this moment as he's only had a month with this group of players and was missing two starters from last year tonight as well as a third who could only play 1/2 the match. Maybe they don't qualify for the CL but that was de Boer's fault for failing the team down the stretch last year and not Bosz who not only has to win this tie but another one to get through to the group stage.

[saddlerian]

All Ajax need is one goal, so it's not so bad. They need to work on their long passes across the pitch, they missed their player 3 or 4 times.

Is this all you can say???? It's not so bad??? It's bloody disastrous!!!!! Ajax are "trying" to get into the CL group stage...they have NO chance now....but if they "work on their long passes across the pitch, they missed their player 3 or 4 times" they'll get there.....DREAM ON!!!!!

[Ayman]

Well, I've been sitting in a bar in Agios Nikolaos, with a lot of Greek PAOK supporters...and they have been laughing!!! I don't blame them!!! This is possibly the WORST Ajax "team"...group of players, that I have seen for many a year!!! This "COACH" has now cost the club many millions of € cos they are out of CL now.....GET RID OF HIM NOW!!!!! He seems to mouth "attacking football" but it was just the same talentless defensive rubbish again!!!!! The Greek supporters around know that I coach the local under 16s team...even saying that "your team would do better, any time!". Yes, that pleased me....mainly because "my" lads always give 100% effort and try to win....and they do it for the love of the game, not the many 000's of € that Ajax pays it's "players"! I said before that I would not be going to Thessalonika even though it's only a €40 flight away.....I wouldn't go now if it was free!!!

Very harsh, @SaddlerIan 1. Ajax don't have a mountain to climb. 2. Ajax have been here before, literally! We all know what happened in the return leg!

[Ayman]

http://www.ajaxtalk.nl/Forum/viewtopic. ... k&start=50 Check the comments after the 1-1 draw at home to PAOK in 2010! Not much has changed in six years!

[saddlerian]

Either you were drinking too much ouzo or you didn't watch the same match I did. this was an aggressive attacking Ajax side that will only grow into the matches to come. I don't think it's fair to criticize Bosz at this moment as he's only had a month with this group of players and was missing two starters from last year tonight as well as a third who could only play 1/2 the match. Maybe they don't qualify for the CL but that was de Boer's fault for failing the team down the stretch last year and not Bosz who not only has to win this tie but another one to get through to the group stage.

Err...."aggressive attacking Ajax side"......and which recording of the team of the 70's were you watching??? AGGRESSIVE.....ATTACKING......where was this? I watched the whole match....didn't see a talented side at all!!!

I think that many Ajax supporters are delusional now...this team would struggle to hold their own in English Championship or Scottish Premier.....for many years the standard of play has been going down....now, it's almost rock bottom!!! I'm sorry, but a coach who could ORGANISE a team and hit the ground running should have been appointed.....Bosz is not the man....!!!

[Ayman]

Saddler, unlike under Frank de Boer, today we saw free flowing football especially in the first half

[Orange14]

Ian,

Sounds like you need to find another club to support. The current financial realities of football dictate that Ajax will never return to the glory days of the 1970s or even a repeat of the back to back CL finals on the mid-1990s (one win, one loss). I think the Eredivisie is going to lose it's automatic qualification berth next season because of poor results in both the CL and EL. If that's the glory you want to see, better look elsewhere. For me, I saw a lot to like in the match tonight. One man's wine is another man's vinegar.

[Ayman]

Ian,

Sounds like you need to find another club to support. The current financial realities of football dictate that Ajax will never return to the glory days of the 1970s or even a repeat of the back to back CL finals on the mid-1990s (one win, one loss). I think the Eredivisie is going to lose it's automatic qualification berth next season because of poor results in both the CL and EL. If that's the glory you want to see, better look elsewhere. For me, I saw a lot to like in the match tonight. One man's wine is another man's vinegar.

Never write this team off, especially if Bosz turns out to be good, Ajax always has had a decent group of players, what has been missing is a decent coach that can get the best out of his players. Granted, we will never see the same kind of results from the 70s. Doesn't mean this team can't go far in the CL in teh near future

[saddlerian]

I don't think it's fair to criticize Bosz at this moment as he's only had a month with this group of players and was missing two starters from last year tonight as well as a third who could only play 1/2 the match.

IF Ajax had appointed a PROVEN coach would command respect and hit the ground running, this wouldn't have happened tonight! As or missing 2 starters and a third who could only play 1/2 of the match.....WHY??????? They are professional footballers, "athletes". who should be fit even from their summer holidays.....it's getting to the stage where even players from "lesser" countries are treated as gods!!! If they were in the "real world" they would have to work 37.5 to 40 hours a week......whereas they spend a maximum of 8 hours a week on coaching...keeping fitness levels is up to them.....but ....no, I'm not going to go there.....all I can say is they are classed as a privileged group....JUST BLOODY SHOW IT TO US!!!!!

[Ayman]

It's only the first leg, Bosz will motivate them, he is a good motivator as well as a tactician

[saddlerian]

Ian,

Sounds like you need to find another club to support. ...... If that's the glory you want to see, better look elsewhere. For me, I saw a lot to like in the match tonight. One man's wine is another man's vinegar.

Who said anything about glory.....Bosz promised exciting, attacking football....(I'll find the quote tomorrow)....this was just negative, lacklustre play.....if anyone gave 100%, please tell me who!!!!!

Ajax have a tremendous Academy, a much, much higher standard than the academy I "work", unpaid, for here in Crete. We manage to get kids from 8+ up to a reasonable standard over the 8 years that they're with us, always giving 100%....in fact 2 lads who were in our u16s last season REJECTED moves to AEK in Athens and Olimpiakos because, after their "trials", they did not "enjoy" the football although they were offered paid contracts! This is the sort of player that Ajax should be breeding nowadays....what do the Ajax youngsters want, the money or the "fame"????

[Orange14]

Ian,

Sounds like you need to find another club to support. ...... If that's the glory you want to see, better look elsewhere. For me, I saw a lot to like in the match tonight. One man's wine is another man's vinegar.

Who said anything about glory.....Bosz promised exciting, attacking football....(I'll find the quote tomorrow)....this was just negative, lacklustre play.....if anyone gave 100%, please tell me who!!!!!

Riedewald & Veltman for sure; Klaassen within his limitations

[Cruijff]

Ian,

Sounds like you need to find another club to support. ...... If that's the glory you want to see, better look elsewhere. For me, I saw a lot to like in the match tonight. One man's wine is another man's vinegar.

Who said anything about glory.....Bosz promised exciting, attacking football....(I'll find the quote tomorrow)....this was just negative, lacklustre play.....if anyone gave 100%, please tell me who!!!!!

Probably you miss the good overview you've got on the play sitting in section 411 and much is different when you need a tv in a bar or a stream to watch some things.

It was really promising how Dolberg, Tete, Veltman, Van de Beek, Riedewald and when involved in the game Cassierra played. Klaassen, our captain, was by far the weakest midfielder, Viergever and Dijks were a disgrace and zero good crosses came from Dijks on the left or El Ghazi and Tete on the right.

The way how for example the 18 year old Dolberg survived in this (also his first one should have counted..!!!) when El Ghazi up front had even a negative net result is very promising.

We continue talking next week, because things can be much better and has to be better. There were still too many moments of weak passing. So not wrong tactics, but stupid individual mistakes for example by the very experienced Oranje goalie.

[Tom_]

It was really promising how Dolberg, Tete, Veltman, Van de Beek, Riedewald and when involved in the game Cassierra played. Klaassen, our captain, was by far the weakest midfielder, Viergever and Dijks were a disgrace and zero good crosses came from Dijks on the left or El Ghazi and Tete on the right.

Yeah, Dijks was bad. Those crosses are a waste of time, and he was caught out of position a lot. Also a couple of mistakes from Veltman where I thought he should've cleared the ball but didn't.

How do you guys think the left side of the defense is going to work if Riedewald plays DM? He did a very nice job last night and DM may be his preferred position, but I think he's going to be needed as left-sided CB a lot this season.

We continue talking next week, because things can be much better and has to be better. There were still too many moments of weak passing. So not wrong tactics, but stupid individual mistakes for example by the very experienced Oranje goalie.

This is true. Cillessen's mistake was like something out of an under-18s match. But given the drastic switch from FdB's possession style to Bosz's quick ball movement I think we have to accept that there are gonna be some mistakes in ball handling. Overall I thought it was a pretty positive match!

[Ayman]

It was really promising how Dolberg, Tete, Veltman, Van de Beek, Riedewald and when involved in the game Cassierra played. Klaassen, our captain, was by far the weakest midfielder, Viergever and Dijks were a disgrace and zero good crosses came from Dijks on the left or El Ghazi and Tete on the right.

Yeah, Dijks was bad. Those crosses are a waste of time, and he was caught out of position a lot. Also a couple of mistakes from Veltman where I thought he should've cleared the ball but didn't.

How do you guys think the left side of the defense is going to work if Riedewald plays DM? He did a very nice job last night and DM may be his preferred position, but I think he's going to be needed as left-sided CB a lot this season.

We continue talking next week, because things can be much better and has to be better. There were still too many moments of weak passing. So not wrong tactics, but stupid individual mistakes for example by the very experienced Oranje goalie.

This is true. Cillessen's mistake was like something out of an under-18s match. But given the drastic switch from FdB's possession style to Bosz's quick ball movement I think we have to accept that there are gonna be some mistakes in ball handling. Overall I thought it was a pretty positive match!

It's not the first Cillessen made such a dreadful mistake. I remember at home to Barcelona when Ajax lost 0-2, he did the same, allowing Messi to score!

[SPL]

Game hinged on Cillessen's mistake ,he does not make many, and Dolberg being given offside,which it looked like he was on side. We are still in the competition and at least we played positive football until maybe the last few mins when we were making sure we did not lose.

Lots of moans last night but this is a very young side and we have not played any competitive games as yet and maybe we were a bit undercooked.

We should be lucky that Milik was our only player in the Euros ,had the Dutch been there Cillessen Klaassen Tete Veltman would all have missed last night.

Not beating de Graafschap was very very costly!!

[Ayman]

Everyone is harsh on Mitchell Dijks. Granted it wasn't one of his best games. But he did get that nice cross in there, where Dolberg's header, forced the keeper to tip the ball over.

[Cruijff]

Everyone is harsh on Mitchell Dijks. Granted it wasn't one of his best games. But he did get that nice cross in there, where Dolberg's header, forced the keeper to tip the ball over.

True. He had 2 crosses that were ok, 1 of them caused a lot of danger. But the discussion we go into now in this topic is that SaddlerIan says Ajax was bloody shite, that the tactics from Bosz were in his opinion a disaster and that the Ajax players refused to work for their money (his Under 16 team does better).

That is not how I see it, Dolberg, Van de Beek, Veltman, Tete, Cassierra at some moments and also Riedewald had quite a good game. They were not being helped by the other team mates that made a lot of mistakes. If Dijks runs forward to Cassierra's position all the time and blocks Cassierra's chance to get involved in the game and then gives a poor cross, your attackers and midfielders that come to the box have wasted a lot of energy for nothing. And other players like Viergever have to make corrections for Dijks being out of position all the time, by far not Viergevers best point.

This would in potention had been a great game if some Ajax players managed to pass just some simple balls better to their team mates. Or when we continued our play of the 15 minutes when PAOK didn't touch the ball at all. If the referee allows Dolberg's first goal that was clearly on side that could change everything and then it is perhaps Ajax leading at half time with 2-0 and 3-. And then it is SaddlerIan laughing at his Greek mates in the bar and ordering them ouzo.........

[Ayman]

Everyone is harsh on Mitchell Dijks. Granted it wasn't one of his best games. But he did get that nice cross in there, where Dolberg's header, forced the keeper to tip the ball over.

True. He had 2 crosses that were ok, 1 of them caused a lot of danger. But the discussion we go into now in this topic is that SaddlerIan says Ajax was bloody shite, that the tactics from Bosz were in his opinion a disaster and that the Ajax players refused to work for their money (his Under 16 team does better).

That is not how I see it, Dolberg, Van de Beek, Veltman, Tete, Cassierra at some moments and also Riedewald had quite a good game. They were not being helped by the other team mates that made a lot of mistakes. If Dijks runs forward to Cassierra's position all the time and blocks Cassierra's chance to get involved in the game and then gives a poor cross, your attackers and midfielders that come to the box have wasted a lot of energy for nothing. And other players like Viergever have to make corrections for Dijks being out of position all the time, by far not Viergevers best point.

This would in potention had been a great game if some Ajax players managed to pass just some simple balls better to their team mates. Or when we continued our play of the 15 minutes when PAOK didn't touch the ball at all. If the referee allows Dolberg's first goal that was clearly on side that could change everything and then it is perhaps Ajax leading at half time with 2-0 and 3-. And then it is SaddlerIan laughing at his Greek mates in the bar and ordering them ouzo.........

To some degree I can understand Ian's frustration. Although it's too early to draw the conclusion that he has drawn. Let's not forget, IanSaddler's comments post match yesterday were identical to his comments SIX YEARS AGO, after Ajax drew 1-1 at home to PAOK.

[Cruijff]

To some degree I can understand Ian's frustration. Although it's too early to draw the conclusion that he has drawn. Let's not forget, IanSaddler's comments post match yesterday were identical to his comments SIX YEARS AGO, after Ajax drew 1-1 at home to PAOK.

Haha yeah but 6 years ago not only SaddlerIan but many Ajax fans were mad.
Despite that we had Suárez, Siem de Jong, Stekelenburg, Sulejmani, Emanuelson, Eriksen, De Zeeuw, Alderweireld and Vertonghen a lot of people said this was an all time low and the worst Ajax ever in history.

I got a little bit frustrated too watching the game yesterday. Cillessen gave away a really stupid goal, but every goalie does at some day (even Manuel Neuer).

But some of our players did pretty well and then Riedewald gives away a really easy pass causing our defense danger why we were about to create a great scoring chance. Captain Davy Klaassen was by far the weakest midfielder. When these guys deliver you are 2 or 3 classes better than PAOK (who were, during their rare moments in possession, quite good at the ball. PAOK was not a poor squad at all, much better than a mid table Eredivisie team.)

[Ayman]

To some degree I can understand Ian's frustration. Although it's too early to draw the conclusion that he has drawn. Let's not forget, IanSaddler's comments post match yesterday were identical to his comments SIX YEARS AGO, after Ajax drew 1-1 at home to PAOK.

Haha yeah but 6 years ago not only SaddlerIan but many Ajax fans were mad.
Despite that we had Suárez, Siem de Jong, Stekelenburg, Sulejmani, Emanuelson, Eriksen, De Zeeuw, Alderweireld and Vertonghen a lot of people said this was an all time low and the worst Ajax ever in history.

I got a little bit frustrated too watching the game yesterday. Cillessen gave away a really stupid goal, but every goalie does at some day (even Manuel Neuer).

But some of our players did pretty well and then Riedewald gives away a really easy pass causing our defense danger why we were about to create a great scoring chance. Captain Davy Klaassen was by far the weakest midfielder. When these guys deliver you are 2 or 3 classes better than PAOK (who were, during their rare moments in possession, quite good at the ball. PAOK was not a poor squad at all, much better than a mid table Eredivisie team.)

Eriksen was still very young, and played out of position (on the left wing), which made him very uncomfortable, and didn't really shine, and wasn't a star player or 'player to watch' at that point. Alderwiereld had recently broken through the ranks, two years before, and like Eriksen, wasn't seen as a key player, till end of the season, when there was a change in management. De Zeeuw wasn't really rated highly at that point, Sulejmani was seen as a flop at that point after two dissapointing seasons, before he got a little bit better again, momentarily living up to his price tag. Urby was more of a liability at left back, always out of position, this resulted in leakage of goals for a long time before this game. Siem de Jong was a hopeless No. 9 and always slow as a midfielder. Which leaves us with Stekelenburg, Suarez and Vertonghen, who were some of the only few decent players who were Champions league calibre.

P.S interesting you mentioned Neuer, I always thought Neuer and Cillessen looked like twins! Well almost!