17 SEP Ajax - Celtic Europa League

[SPL]

Only saw the 2nd half so cannot make that many comments. We threw everything forward once they were down to 10 men and Schone scored a beauty. At European level this team lacks experience.Cannot see us finishing 2nd in this group

[Orange14]

They couldn't get the winning goal against a 10 man Celtic. Lots of balls played into the box and Milik had one half chance on a header that went over the bar. He was also a bit unfortunate to hit the post on a better chance earlier in the half. We got the midfield that I wanted at the beginning of the match but they were not up to the challenge. Very disappointing matches from Sinkgraven and Gudelj. This team has to create more than one goal from the run of play which to date they seem incapable of. In the other match in our group, Molde thrashed Fenerbache 3-1 so go figure which of these four teams is the favorite to advance.

Player Ratings:

FdB (7) - for putting the best 11 out on the pitch; too bad they proved him wrong

Cillessen (6) - two good saves but he should have done better on the first goal by cutting down the angle
Dijks (5.5) - didn't have to do much defending but his crosses were just mediocre
Riedewald (5.5) - complicit in the first goal as his outlet pass was way too weak and easily interecepted
Veltman (7) - solid all game long
Tete (7) - teams should never try to attack down his side, ever; good positioning in the offensive half of the pitch
Gudelj (3.5) - lost his man on the second goal, took wild shots, and couldn't deliver a free kick at all
Sinkgraven (3) - Lucas Andersen part II???? just weak on the ball and with his passing
Klaassen (6) - nice back heel to Fischer on the goal and worked hard all match long
Younes (6.5) - some nice moves with the ball to create some danger
Fischer (6.5) - nice goal but did he do much more than that?
el Ghazi (6.5) - better today in terms of knowing when to pass and when to take on his man had a really nice cross on the Milik header that hit the post
Milik (6) - one decent chance that hit the post, the second was always an awkward header
Serero (6) - good intervention to prevent a goal scoring opportunity but his offensive limitations will always be there
Schöne (6.5) - maybe he has to play every game just for his free kicks; who can turn down a goal a game player?

Back to league play on Sunday and then the first league cup match middle of next week.

[Tom_]

Looked like two awful teams in a lower league to me. I would say Celtic deserved 1–3 more than we deserved 2–2, but in the end it's probably a valuable point: with Molde beating Fenerbahçe in Turkey who knows who the weakest team in this group is, maybe Ajax.

I never want to see Gudelj in an Ajax shirt again. Serero and Schöne are both better footballers.

Younes is promising on the left. I also thought Klaassen worked OK at CF, at least he tries to do something productive with his first touch. Could that be a good option with Fischer, Bazoer and e.g. Sinkgraven in MF? Of course it would be better with Klaassen in MF and a good striker at CF but we don't have one of them...

[SPL]

Gudelj hasn't impressed in any game so far. His poor defending cost us a win vTwente and today. Thankfully Bazoer is back on Sunday.

[souras84]

Gudelj hasn't impressed in any game so far. His poor defending cost us a win vTwente and today. Thankfully Bazoer is back on Sunday.

Do you think he's going to replace Gudelj?? I can't see that happening

[Cruijff]

Not a very good start at all for Ajax, but heeey... there are more big names who've dropped 2 points or even more than 2 points in their first European game this season.

Very surprising result Molde winning 1-3 away at Fenerbahce I like that result.

Next game on 1 October Molde-Ajax.

[Philippe]

IMO we avoided defeat only because Frank decided to rectify his initial mistakes.
Playing without Milik proved to be nonsense.
Since the beginning of the season, several players have constantly performed below par : Gudelj, Sinkgraven.
Our defense is weak. I still think Van Rhijn is better than Tete and brings more impact. Veltman has not met expectations so far.
I would make changes in our basis team :
Cillessen
Van Rhijn-Van der Hoorn/Heitinga-Riedewald-Dijks
Klaassen-Bazoer-Schöne/Serero
Fischer-Milik-El Ghazi

[SPL]

Playing kids in eredivise is ok as we can beat Willem ADO but in Europe we are outclassed due to lack of experience.

If we keep the kids in then those players Philippe underlined above will all soon leave . v d Hoorn and Schone are not happy , v Rhijn and Serero wont stay just to be subs .As for Heits ,can anyone explain why he was signed.

Our decision not to spend money on 3 decent experinced players is going to rebound on us.We needed an experienced CD,DM and striker .We got Gudelj who is no better than Serero, Heits has been finished for 2 years and Sanogo is a joke and does not look even Jupiler standard.

By the summer of 2018 Klaassen El Ghazi,Fischer Riedewald Tete and Bazoer will be gone ,then what! After this season the champs will have to qualify for a CL place ie 2016/17 champs will have to qualify and that will be hard if you end up playing the English Spanish or German 4 th placed teams.Or in our case a nondescript Austrian team.

But for Celtic going down to 10 men and Schone scoring yet another beautiful free kick we would have lost to Celtic at home .With a bunch of kids we cannot expect much better.

[Orange14]

I still think Van Rhijn is better than Tete and brings more impact.

Seriously????? Tete has been the player of the year for me. He has neutralized every opponents attacking down the right side of our defense. Without him we would have conceded a bunch more goals. van Rhijn cannot defend at all.

[Tom_]

Our decision not to spend money on 3 decent experinced players is going to rebound on us.We needed an experienced CD,DM and striker .We got Gudelj who is no better than Serero, Heits has been finished for 2 years and Sanogo is a joke and does not look even Jupiler standard.

Agreed! The financial argument seems totally bogus to me. Firstly, we're loaded so who cares how much we spend. Secondly, we were prepared to drop ~ €10–15M on Gudelj and Sinkgraven (from memory) plus whatever Milik cost. With this we could pay someone e.g. 5× our current salary limit for three years... or three players €1.5M each for three years... etc. Yet we can't afford the salary of an experienced / established player? Not saying this would be the silver bullet that fixes all our problems, but it's not a logical claim IMO.

Ultimately we are going to suffer again for the third season in a row, because our squad is not great, and I guess it's not 100% down to FdB and friends that we have lost talent year after year. But part of the problem is that replacements and promotions have been built around our current playing 'system'... which stinks!

[Orange14]

We probably need another thread to discuss all the management issues. I would caution those who want to spend money that it was only about five years ago that the club was in a fair amount of difficulty. Running a full youth program such as Ajax does is not cheap. A fair amount of the surplus gained came from CL participation which we will not receive this year. The club doesn't get much television money from the domestic league and they can only sell so many shirts (I do my part by buying a new shirt each season directly from the Ajax store so they get the full amount of profit ).

To me the bigger problem is that FdB is not a very good manager and Overmars is likewise not good in his position. I don't know who ultimately decides on transfers but clearly bad decisions are being made (but this is nothing new, it goes back a decade). It's worth noting that Gudelj and Milik both start for their respective NTs and are pretty good playing for them. Maybe Ajax misuses them, I really don't know.

[Orange14]

Yet we can't afford the salary of an experienced / established player? Not saying this would be the silver bullet that fixes all our problems, but it's not a logical claim IMO.

The problem is who are these "experienced players?" Lampard and Gerrard both left the EPL for the US league and are being paid more than €2M a year. Same with Didier Drogba. there are some teams in the Middle East that get "experienced" Euro players and they pay them a lot of money, more than what we are talking about here. What I don't like is bringing players in on loan without an option to purchase like Bojan and Sanogo. I would rather have a player like Milik who can be judged and offered a contract if he pans out.

Maybe Heitinga was a special case because of his Ajax connections. I wonder what his salary is. I don't think he took a big pay cut like Babel did when he was trying to resurrect his career. There is no easy answer to any of this and maybe we should be bringing in more Latin American players like PSV are doing. I think we can pay them more than they make in their home leagues. But of course this requires scouting!

[Ayman]

It was 2-2 in the home leg, after Ajax leveled twice. Now the easy bit. Right?