Ajaxtalk

From the highlights, it looked not just like bad goalkeeping, but also what Ajax has suffered the last couple years, with a lack of defending in general. I think this doesn't look so good for EC/WC 2010, unless there are some breakthrough young defenders. I really see a a parallel between Ajax and Oranje where attacking football has become so important, they've forgotten to develop defenders.

That's why the 98/2000 teams (and the 70's) were so good. World-class attack and decent defending. Now it's world-class attack and picking tulips at the back. Specifically there don't seem to be any high-caliber defensive players that can stop an attack in their tracks consistently like on those teams with players like Stam, de Boer, Davids, Cocu.

Luckily a team like Austria is even worse and doesn't have the offensive firepower.

Don't think this was posted, but van Basten released the provisional 30-man squad for Euro 2008. The full list is:

Sander Boschker (FC Twente), Edwin van der Sar (Manchester United), Maarten Stekelenburg (Ajax) and Henk Timmer (Feyenoord)

Wilfred Bouma (Aston Villa), Tim de Cler (Feyenoord), Urby Emanuelson (Ajax), John Heitinga (Ajax), Kew Jaliens (AZ Alkmaar), Joris Mathijsen (Hamburg), Mario Melchiot (Wigan Athletic) and Andre Ooijer (Blackburn)

Ibrahim Afellay (PSV Eindhoven), Giovanni van Bronckhorst (Feyenoord), Orlando Engelaar (FC Twente), Nigel de Jong (Hamburg), Denny Landzaat (Feyenoord), Hedwiges Maduro (Valencia), Clarence Seedorf (Milan), Wesley Sneijder (Real Madrid), Rafael van der Vaart (Hamburg), Demy de Zeeuw (AZ Alkmaar)

Ryan Babel (Liverpool), Klaas Jan Huntelaar (Ajax), Danny Koevermans (PSV Eindhoven), Dirk Kuyt (Liverpool), Ruud van Nistelrooy (Real Madrid), Robin van Persie (Arsenal), Arjen Robben (Real Madrid) and Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink (Celtic).


So that's 4 Ajacied, van Basten seems to really like Urby and I think he may otherwise be dropped from the final 23-man roster barring injuries to other players.

Oh Lord the defense...

I would drop:

Timmer
Urby
Maduro
Engelaar
De Jong
Koevermans
Kuyt

ZoefdeHaas schreef:Oh Lord the defense...

I would drop:

Timmer
Urby
Maduro
Engelaar
De Jong
Koevermans
Kuyt

...and replace with who? Certainly Kuyt has been playing well here in England and most of the others aren't doing too bad either. Changing the subject ever so slightly this months Four Four Two magazine has an article about why Oranje definately won't be winning Euro 2008........

13 ex Ajax players in there .

I noted the U21 / Olympic squad of 35 was picked this week. An U21 game in May plus apre Olympic tourny also in May. (Olympic squad to be mainly U21 plus some overage players)

Point being only 3 Ajax players in this 35 Siem De Jong plus Vermeer and Schilder. The last 2 only getting in the squad due to being loaned out and getting time in other first teams.Not many for a team renouned for producing local youth!!!!!

Well, it's a good thing in this case cause I believe - if everything goes well - that Ajax will be playing the 3rd preliminary round during the olympic games.

SE6Ajacied schreef: ...and replace with who?

If you drop 7 names, then you have the 23 players allowed for the tournament. So you don't need to replace them.

Cedric_AeF schreef:Well, it's a good thing in this case cause I believe - if everything goes well - that Ajax will be playing the 3rd preliminary round during the olympic games.

SE6Ajacied schreef: ...and replace with who?

If you drop 7 names, then you have the 23 players allowed for the tournament. So you don't need to replace them.

Perhaps I was displaying my preferences/prejudices. I would certainly prefer to keep Kuyt for one in the squad. Anyway I was meaning for the existing (enlarged) squad. We had some wine in the office tonight and I had three large cups of it......

I think Kuyt is a great, hard working player, but with Ruud, Huntelaar and even Vennegoor, he comes fourth as centre striker.

If MVB plays with wingers, the likes of Robben, Van Persie, Babel, Van der Vaart, even Afellay are better in that position than Kuyt.

But Kuyt would probably be a better defender than Mathijsen.

Having made a comment that we have hardly any players in the U21/Olympic team, and yesterday that was cut to 28 players with just De Jong and Vermeer we do fare better with the u20 team to the annual Toulon tourny, which is on Eurosport.

Out of an initial squad of 36 there are 9 from Ajax .However only 5 are basically still with us ie Sarpong, Donald, Goossens Wormgoor and Van De Heijden. Van Duin and Yildirim have both just been released and finally
Schilder and Poepon both have been on loan and are still under contract have been put on the transfer list.

Still it does show we have some talent at U20 but the only 2 of the above who have played plenty of first team footy ie Poepon and Schilder are not wanted by us.Lets hope some of the other make the grade with us, (Sarpong certainly looked the part the other day)

Urby was dropped, along with Maduro, Jaliens and Koevermans. Earlier Seedorf withdrew, and now Boulahrouz the Cannibal is back in the frame.

Urby and Maduro will go to the Olympics however.

The Dutch U21 team for Toulon tourny next week (it is a reserve u21 team)

has 6 Ajax players in the final 22. Schilder and Poepon, both loaned out and to go are include along with 4 who are staying at Ajax. Wormgoor,Donald, Sarpong and van der Heijden.(Goossens, Van Duin and
Yildirim were left out having been included in the interim squad). Strange that Martina and Slijngard are not included in what is the reserve U21 squad !!

As stated the other day the games are all on eurosport next week and I will look forward to seeing somemore of our young lads. .

Some interesting pictures here:

http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/eur ... ent-154478



I like the Heitinga one the best

gordonvandekamp schreef:Some interesting pictures here:

http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/eur ... ent-154478



I like the Heitinga one the best

Haha! You kidding, Van der Sar is the most bad ass

Just watched Dutch U21's in Toulon tourny. They lost 1-0 to Japan.This was Japan's main U21 team whereas the Dutch team is a reserve U21 team.

For Holland , Donald and Poepon played and Sarpong came on for last 15 mins but they did not do anything and overall not one dutch player impressed me. Japan played the ball fast and the Dutch were very much second best.

Next game is Thursday v Chile.

SPL schreef:Just watched Dutch U21's in Toulon tourny. They lost 1-0 to Japan.This was Japan's main U21 team whereas the Dutch team is a reserve U21 team.

For Holland , Donald and Poepon played and Sarpong came on for last 15 mins but they did not do anything and overall not one dutch player impressed me. Japan played the ball fast and the Dutch were very much second best.

Next game is Thursday v Chile.

Was a pretty poor display actually. Chile wont be easy to beat either.

U21 lost 2-0 to Chile in Toulon and had 2 players Sent Off Leroy George and Milan Koenders(another of our ex youths)

Chile , like Japan the other day, had their strongest U21 team whereas Dutch team is only a reserve U21 team.

4 Ajax kids played. Sarpong and Van Der Heijden played all game and looked no more than oK. I do not think the commentator knew VdH name as he did not mention him. Schilder lasted 58 mins and was like all the Dutch ok nothing special.

Then finally Vito Wormgoor. Lasted 38 mins and had a poor time.My first real look at him( excluding the 5 min clips of our resrve games on youtube)
and he reminded me of Senderos of Arsenal. Tall, not much hair and not very impressed.This is being very unfair to Vito as all the Chile players are regular first teamers and he along with VdH probably the least experienced players on the pitch.

At this level Holland are playing their reserves against others strongest players and it shows.I am sure if Holland's strongest U21 players would look a lot better.

One final game in this tourny thats tomorrow v France.

The senior Dutch u21's lost 1-0 to Switzerland yesterday in a European qualifier.Siem De Jong came on as sub.So with the reserve U21's losing twice this week it is not agood time for U21 football in Holland.

The reserves last game of the Toulon toury is today so it will be interesting to see how many Ajax players appear.

Good to see KJH on the scorelist for the seniors. Hope he plays in Euro 08 .

Just to finish off my comments about the U21's in Toulon. They beat France 1-0 and are out of the tourny.

4 Ajax played.A very poor first half but it picked up in the second. Sarpong
played very well in the second half and I thought Donald looked ok. Poepon
did not impress and it did seem a bit strange that this guy scored 10 goals
for Willem this season but never looked much or got any chances. Van der Heijden played for 29 mins.He looked good to me but injured an ankle then 2 mins later got booked for a late tackle and took another knock so came off.

And finally on my mini round up of Dutch Ajax the Dutch U 19's drew 2-2
v Russia in a European qualifier . Anita and Supusepa played all the game and Blind was sub.

Having started on the other Dutch teams I may as well finish off as both the Olympic and u19 's play this week with Ajax players involved.

The U19's are playing in a european U19 qualifying round this week . Having drawn with Russia 2-2 they lost 2-1 to Greece and cannot now qualify
for the finals in July. Blind and Anita started and Supusepa came on as sub. Reading the match report on UEFA.com Supusepa gave away the late
penalty .

The Olympic team U23's with some over age players are playing 3 friendlies this week v other Olympic teams. The only AJAX involved are Vermeer and Siem De Jong. They lost the first game 2-1 to France with Vermeer in goal and De Jong as sub.

Here's the Holland homepage on the official UEFA Euro 2008 website:

http://www.euro2008.uefa.com/tournament ... index.html

Some good articles there, on Johan Cruijff and Marco van Basten and all that.

K.

Okay, this is then: Holland's squad of 23. The last one to drop out was defender Khalid Boulahrouz of Sevilla.

Goalkeepers: Van der Sar (Manchester United), Stekelenburg (Ajax), Timmer (Feyenoord).

Defenders: Bouma (Aston Villa), De Cler (Feyenoord), Heitinga (Ajax), Mathijsen (Hamburger SV), Ooijer (Blackburn Rovers), Melchiot (Wigan).

Midfielders: Afellay (PSV), Van Bronckhorst (Feyenoord), Engelaar (FC Twente), Van der Vaart, De Jong (Hamburger SV), De Zeeuw (AZ), Sneijder (Real Madrid).

Forwards: Babel, Kuyt (Liverpool), Robben, Van Nistelrooy (Real Madrid), Van Persie (Arsenal), Huntelaar (Ajax), Vennegoor of Hesselink (Celtic).

K.

Your national squad has this 'Ajax this season' stench to it... great forwards, great goalie, decent midfield and rather abysmal defense...

Jansma schreef:Your national squad has this 'Ajax this season' stench to it... great forwards, great goalie, decent midfield and rather abysmal defense...

Yup. On a different scale, though: Holland's forwards are top drawer. Plenty of options, too. Midfield? Not as fantastic as the forward line, but Ajax could only wish they had a creative 'architect' like Van der Vaart, Sneijder or even Afellay. Plenty of creativity. What appears to be missing is a good defensive midfielder.

Defence: worryingly poor. Not great at all and it's gonna cost us.

Goalkeepers: np problems there. I am not a fan of Henk Timmer, but Van der Sar and Stekelenburg are good enough for the job.

K.

Jansma schreef:Your national squad...

By the way: this is not my suggestion, or guess, or whatever. This is it. Van Basten's definitive squad. It's official.

K

Still a big Ajax influence as 9 of them came through the ranks plus Timmer De Cler who were with us and of course KJH.