Ajaxtalk

Rubin-Dynamo 0-0

Okay - now it's gonna be tricky...

This upcoming weekend is the very last matchday of the Russian season. Rubin Kazan already clinched the title; Kuban Krasnodar are already sure to get relegated. If Rubin Kazan win, there's a more than fair chance that the Helmond Cup will move to Italy on December 9th (Inter vs Rubin Kazan in the Champions League; last group game). If Rubin Kazan don't care about the last league game (they're already champions anyway) and lose, FC Kuban Krasnodar will take the cup with them to the second division of Russian football and there will be no Helmond Cup match 'til February 2010 or so... (start of the new Russian season).

2009-2010

11/07/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Vorskla Poltava: 0-0 (a.e.t., Dynamo win penalty shoot-out: 4-2)
18/07/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Chornomorets Odessa: 5-0
25/07/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Tavriya Simferopol: 6-0
01/08/09: FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih - FC Dynamo Kyiv: 1-3
08/08/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - Illichivets Mariupol: 3-1
15/08/09: Arsenal Kyiv - FC Dynamo Kyiv: 1-2
23/08/09: FC Vorskla Poltava - FC Dynamo Kyiv: 1-1
31/08/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Metalurh Donetsk: 3-1
12/09/09: Metalist Kharkiv - FC Dynamo Kyiv: 0-1
16/09/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Rubin Kazan: 3-1
20/09/09: Metalist Kharkiv - FC Dynamo Kyiv: 1-2
25/09/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Zorya Luhansk: 2-0
29/09/09: FC Barcelona - FC Dynamo Kyiv: 2-0
03/10/09: FC Barcelona - UD Almería: 1-0
17/10/09: Valencia CF - FC Barcelona: 0-0
20/10/09: FC Barcelona - FC Rubin Kazan: 1-2
25/10/09: SKA Rostov-na-Donu - FC Rubin Kazan: 1-2
30/10/09: FC Rubin Kazan - FC Krylia Sovetov Samara: 4-1
04/11/09: FC Rubin Kazan - FC Barcelona: 0-0
08/11/09: CSKA Moskva - FC Rubin Kazan: 0-2
21/11/09: FC Rubin Kazan - FC Zenit St. Petersburg: 0-0
24/11/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Rubin Kazan: 0-0
29/11/09: FC Kuban Krasnodar - FC Rubin Kazan

K.

Guess we are going to have to look for an Internet feed on Sunday to see where the Helmond Cup ends up. I think Russia is 3 or so time zones ahead of Holland and their match must start before the Ajax game (of course that would be the middle of the night here in the east coast of the US). Simply fascinating the journey that the cup has taken. It they do hold it after this weekend, I don't think it is a sure thing to end up in Italy. They are a pretty solid defensive team and could easily get a draw in Milan (though I haven't looked at the table to see if a draw gets them through).

Must hope Rubin do not lose .

Maybe we should ask a spooky Chinese Match Fixing Syndicate to "arrange" a certain outcome....?

The big game in Russia is due to start 30 mins before our game in the morning.

SPL schreef:The big game in Russia is due to start 30 mins before our game in the morning.

It's quite funny when you think about it...

This is a completely 'dead' game of football in Russia. Rubin already champions; Kuban already relegated. Last matchday of the season, absolutely nothing at stake. The two sides are probably hardly interested in this game, players already booked nice winter break trips to the sun with their families. Many season ticket holders will probably stay at home, thinking "nah, fuck that one, to me this season's over".

But there's a tiny little group of nutters on the Ajax Talk forum who are actually calling it an 'important' or even 'big game' for the Helmond Cup...

K.

Kowalczyk schreef: But there's a tiny little group of nutters on the Ajax Talk forum who are actually calling it an 'important' or even 'big game' for the Helmond Cup...

K.

Perhaps we should send a cable to Rubin's manager informing him about the magnitude of this match!! He might be unaware of the Helmond Cup's storied history and that we don't want to see it lost in the Russian second division for what could be forever.

Orange14 schreef:

Kowalczyk schreef: But there's a tiny little group of nutters on the Ajax Talk forum who are actually calling it an 'important' or even 'big game' for the Helmond Cup...

K.

Perhaps we should send a cable to Rubin's manager informing him about the magnitude of this match!! He might be unaware of the Helmond Cup's storied history and that we don't want to see it lost in the Russian second division for what could be forever.

I would love to see a group of fans create some kind of homemade cup and send it to the team with an explanation of what it is all about. That would be classic.

Rubin Kazan is up 2-0; they clearly want to KEEP THE CUP!!!!!

They won 3-0 so keep the cup until next week when hopefully it will go to Italy.

SPL schreef:They won 3-0 so keep the cup until next week when hopefully it will go to Italy.

Not so sure. I've seen a couple of their CL games and they are one tough outfit. Wouldn't surprise me at all if they pull this one out. I think this is a tough pool. Barca need at least a draw in Kiev to go through and I have not figured out what needs to happen between Rubin and Inter to see which of these go through.

Phew.

Russian season is now over. A ten day break lies ahead before the Helmond Cup visits San Siro for the first time!

Nice one!

2009-2010

11/07/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Vorskla Poltava: 0-0 (a.e.t., Dynamo win penalty shoot-out: 4-2)
18/07/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Chornomorets Odessa: 5-0
25/07/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Tavriya Simferopol: 6-0
01/08/09: FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih - FC Dynamo Kyiv: 1-3
08/08/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - Illichivets Mariupol: 3-1
15/08/09: Arsenal Kyiv - FC Dynamo Kyiv: 1-2
23/08/09: FC Vorskla Poltava - FC Dynamo Kyiv: 1-1
31/08/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Metalurh Donetsk: 3-1
12/09/09: Metalist Kharkiv - FC Dynamo Kyiv: 0-1
16/09/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Rubin Kazan: 3-1
20/09/09: Metalist Kharkiv - FC Dynamo Kyiv: 1-2
25/09/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Zorya Luhansk: 2-0
29/09/09: FC Barcelona - FC Dynamo Kyiv: 2-0
03/10/09: FC Barcelona - UD Almería: 1-0
17/10/09: Valencia CF - FC Barcelona: 0-0
20/10/09: FC Barcelona - FC Rubin Kazan: 1-2
25/10/09: SKA Rostov-na-Donu - FC Rubin Kazan: 1-2
30/10/09: FC Rubin Kazan - FC Krylia Sovetov Samara: 4-1
04/11/09: FC Rubin Kazan - FC Barcelona: 0-0
08/11/09: CSKA Moskva - FC Rubin Kazan: 0-2
21/11/09: FC Rubin Kazan - FC Zenit St. Petersburg: 0-0
24/11/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Rubin Kazan: 0-0
29/11/09: FC Kuban Krasnodar - FC Rubin Kazan: 0-3
09/12/09: FC Internazionale - FC Rubin Kazan

K.

They are even with Inter on points and drew 1-1 at home. By my reckoning, Rubin need at least a goal in the match with Inter. A 0-0 draw goest to Inter on the away goals rule (at least I think that is what happens). A 1-1 draw would mean extra time to decide things. Interesting times ahead for the Cup.

Orange14 schreef:They are even with Inter on points and drew 1-1 at home. By my reckoning, Rubin need at least a goal in the match with Inter. A 0-0 draw goest to Inter on the away goals rule (at least I think that is what happens). A 1-1 draw would mean extra time to decide things. Interesting times ahead for the Cup.

I think you're right.

Bottom line is: Rubin will have to go for at least one goal at the San Siro. They'll have to attack - and that's why I think they'll lose. 1-0 or 2-0.

Having to score in an away game against an Italian team... Not an enviable situation to find yourself in.

K.

Kowalczyk schreef: Having to score in an away game against an Italian team... Not an enviable situation to find yourself in.

K.

That reminds me of that sad sad situation in 2003..... And in the same stadium...

Kowalczyk schreef:

Orange14 schreef:They are even with Inter on points and drew 1-1 at home. By my reckoning, Rubin need at least a goal in the match with Inter. A 0-0 draw goest to Inter on the away goals rule (at least I think that is what happens). A 1-1 draw would mean extra time to decide things. Interesting times ahead for the Cup.

I think you're right.

K.

Noup. There won't be any extra time. 1-1 still means Inter goes through.

Is there anyone who knows a way to convince Inter, there's a lot more at stake than just the trivial qualifying for the next round?

1-0 Inter at the moment!

Some 40 minutes left to play!

K.

They won 2-0. So the Helmond Cup won't go on a long winterbreak in icecold Russia.

Italy!

2009-2010

11/07/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Vorskla Poltava: 0-0 (a.e.t., Dynamo win penalty shoot-out: 4-2)
18/07/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Chornomorets Odessa: 5-0
25/07/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Tavriya Simferopol: 6-0
01/08/09: FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih - FC Dynamo Kyiv: 1-3
08/08/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - Illichivets Mariupol: 3-1
15/08/09: Arsenal Kyiv - FC Dynamo Kyiv: 1-2
23/08/09: FC Vorskla Poltava - FC Dynamo Kyiv: 1-1
31/08/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Metalurh Donetsk: 3-1
12/09/09: Metalist Kharkiv - FC Dynamo Kyiv: 0-1
16/09/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Rubin Kazan: 3-1
20/09/09: Metalist Kharkiv - FC Dynamo Kyiv: 1-2
25/09/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Zorya Luhansk: 2-0
29/09/09: FC Barcelona - FC Dynamo Kyiv: 2-0
03/10/09: FC Barcelona - UD Almería: 1-0
17/10/09: Valencia CF - FC Barcelona: 0-0
20/10/09: FC Barcelona - FC Rubin Kazan: 1-2
25/10/09: SKA Rostov-na-Donu - FC Rubin Kazan: 1-2
30/10/09: FC Rubin Kazan - FC Krylia Sovetov Samara: 4-1
04/11/09: FC Rubin Kazan - FC Barcelona: 0-0
08/11/09: CSKA Moskva - FC Rubin Kazan: 0-2
21/11/09: FC Rubin Kazan - FC Zenit St. Petersburg: 0-0
24/11/09: FC Dynamo Kyiv - FC Rubin Kazan: 0-0
29/11/09: FC Kuban Krasnodar - FC Rubin Kazan: 0-3
09/12/09: FC Internazionale - FC Rubin Kazan: 2-0
13/12/09: Atalanta Bergamo - FC Internazionale

K.

Oh yeah! It will now definately reside in Italy until - at least - February 2010!

Chances of returning to Holland on a short term notice are slim though, since there's no chance a Dutch club will play against the Helmond Cup Holder soon.

Wait a minute: Ajax should invite the Helmond Cup Holder for the Amsterdam Tournament next August! Or are friendly matches excluded for the Cup?

Wie kent Cees de Wolf nog schreef:Or are friendly matches excluded for the Cup?

Yep: the Helmond Cup is about official matches only. Official games in official competitions under the flag of the national F.A., UEFA or FIFA. In practice: domestic league, cup or UEFA competition. Pre-season matches excluded.

The Helmond Cup will indeed stay in Italy for a while, and almost certainly in the Serie A. After the league game against Atalanta Bergamo, Inter have a cup match coming up (Coppa Italia), but they're up against Livorno, who are also on the highest level.

K.

Assuming Inter can hang on to the cup for a while (unlike Barca ), it will be interesting to see the CL draw. The cup could go to Germany, England, Portugal, Greece, France, or even back to Russia.

Barca's trophy cabinet is already full . Five this calendar year with the possibility of a sixth .