Re: General Football Discussion
Geplaatst: za jun 13, 2009 10:04 am
They better hope they win something within a year or two, or they will lose out here big time.
The Madrid bank deal is truly scandalous and I think the Spanish government may try to do something by all accounts. We will have to wait and see. of course this is really little different from what they did several years ago during Perez's first administration where they had to sell the training grounds and other assets to the city of Madrid to pay down debt.gordonvandekamp schreef:More importantly than that, I think we are starting to really see the impact of the purchases elsewhere in how clubs are valuing players above what they were because they know one of the big clubs like this will have to pay that much to get the player (although arguably it started with Chelsea, and then Man City last year).
Case in point being the situation of David Villa and Ribery as mentioned in the article. Valencia and Bayern will hold out because of the large fees paid for other players. I only see it getting worse.
Isn't Real like Barca in that they elect their presidents? This is a good argument for this system's flaws.Orange14 schreef:The Madrid bank deal is truly scandalous and I think the Spanish government may try to do something by all accounts. We will have to wait and see. of course this is really little different from what they did several years ago during Perez's first administration where they had to sell the training grounds and other assets to the city of Madrid to pay down debt.gordonvandekamp schreef:More importantly than that, I think we are starting to really see the impact of the purchases elsewhere in how clubs are valuing players above what they were because they know one of the big clubs like this will have to pay that much to get the player (although arguably it started with Chelsea, and then Man City last year).
Case in point being the situation of David Villa and Ribery as mentioned in the article. Valencia and Bayern will hold out because of the large fees paid for other players. I only see it getting worse.
Bayern can hold out on Ribery as they have him under contract for two or three more years and don't have to raise money. Valencia are in dire straights financially because of the new statdium they are building and do have to raise money. they missed a payrool earlier in the year because of this and everyone expects both Villa and Silva to be sold off to raise funds. There are other teams facing big problems right now including Liverpool.
I didn't understand it either, but I read a few articles about it and had a very interesting conversation with one of the sports editors of the paper I work for.Chugger schreef:Damn, I really wish I understood all this stuff but I don't. I realise that they're playing with way too much money and it's not fair on smaller clubs, and that they owe about €1 billion. I don't understand:
(a) how they can even EXIST when they owe so much money -- surely more than the company is worth -- and
(b) how the bank deal works and why it is so dodgy.
Anyone care to explain? Imagine you're talking to a 12 year old. Or to a scientist who doesn't give a toss about money and hence doesn't understand it
The situation in England is different.Chugger schreef:I mean, it's not just the Spanish clubs that are in debt. What about the 'big four' English clubs? Are they in a similar situation, except that they haven't stretched themselves to quite such a ridiculous amount?
And the owner of Real Madrid has absolutely nothing at stake? He doesn't have to guarantee the loans himself?
Is that so, Ko? Don't forget that the premiership has HUGE commercial money (TV-rights etc etc). Sure, the owners invest in players, but the incomes are enormous.Kowalczyk schreef:The situation in England is different.Chugger schreef:I mean, it's not just the Spanish clubs that are in debt. What about the 'big four' English clubs? Are they in a similar situation, except that they haven't stretched themselves to quite such a ridiculous amount?
And the owner of Real Madrid has absolutely nothing at stake? He doesn't have to guarantee the loans himself?
In Spain (and most other countries) football clubs are independent companies, with an elected club president. The president doesn't technically own the club and doesn't invest out of his own pocket. He's appointed to run the company, like a CEO, and is on the payrole of the club.
The major English clubs really have owners these days: 'gazillionaires' from the U.S., Russia or Iceland who buy the whole thing and - from that moment - pretty much pay for everything out of their own pockets. The 'Abramovich principle', so to say. In most cases those rich chaps operate like 'investment companies': they buy a healthy company and suck all the money out of it, so that the company has an enormous debt 'on paper' (Man Utd being the best example at the moment, I believe; their debt is unbelievable). In practice, this debt is just 'theory' (and therefore irrelevant) for as long as the rich owner stays. The moment he decides to leave the building, though, he will leave a club behind that can no longer exist and will implode almost immediately, unless some other rich bloke comes to rescue.
In many ways that's even trickier. Many English football clubs have sold themselves to rich investors, so that their fate now lies in the hands of one man (who regards his ownership as an investment, not an act of 'love' for the club).
K.
Of course. The club generates money, but since the rich owner owns the club, it's all his money. The whole club, including all the money it makes, is his property. Of course he will try to run it like a company that makes its own money, but if he feels like it, Mr Abramovich can fire everybody, put the entire Chelsea FC (icluding its bank account) in his briefcase - and leave. It's all his.GangstaRiB schreef:Is that so, Ko? Don't forget that the premiership has HUGE commercial money (TV-rights etc etc). Sure, the owners invest in players, but the incomes are enormous.
(a) It's really pretty simple. When you owe such vast sums, your creditors can't afford to see you fail -- they stand to lose everything if that happens -- so they keep on backing you in the hope that somehow you will turn things around and they will recoup their money. This happens all the time in business (like the the recent US bank bailouts) -- and even on a state level -- where countries run up huge defecits and their creditors come up with ways to keep them afloat. Currently, the USA is running at a defecit in the TRILLIONS of dollars -- but none of their creditors dares call in the debt as doing so would wreck the world economy.Chugger schreef:Damn, I really wish I understood all this stuff but I don't. I realise that they're playing with way too much money and it's not fair on smaller clubs, and that they owe about €1 billion. I don't understand:
(a) how they can even EXIST when they owe so much money -- surely more than the company is worth -- and
(b) how the bank deal works and why it is so dodgy.
Anyone care to explain? Imagine you're talking to a 12 year old. Or to a scientist who doesn't give a toss about money and hence doesn't understand it
DanK schreef:One decent tackle could bring the club and more likely the insurance company to its knees.