Ajaxtalk

Babel is officially a centre striker, but he is positioned the last years as a left winger. He say's he still see's himself as a striker..

Hi Gunner. I have 2 sons both Arsenal mad. The 17 year old is still at home and was a Bergkamp fan so has some taste!! I watch games with him.
I understand that Arsenal want a left sided winger come wide midfielder and Ribery of OM would be their first choice but you probably cannot afford him.
Babel is not a left winger but a striker and I am not sure where he would fit at Arsenal.You play 4-4-2 so he would end up as a reserve striker !!

I think he needs to play as a proper striker before anyone can really judge him. I have said before that he was rushed into the Dutch side far too early and is still not good enough to play for Holland.

PS See you like Urby and I too hope he will develop into a very good player and regular left back..

SPL schreef:Hi Gunner. I have 2 sons both Arsenal mad. The 17 year old is still at home and was a Bergkamp fan so has some taste!! I watch games with him.
I understand that Arsenal want a left sided winger come wide midfielder and Ribery of OM would be their first choice but you probably cannot afford him.
Babel is not a left winger but a striker and I am not sure where he would fit at Arsenal.You play 4-4-2 so he would end up as a reserve striker !!

I think he needs to play as a proper striker before anyone can really judge him. I have said before that he was rushed into the Dutch side far too early and is still not good enough to play for Holland.

PS See you like Urby and I too hope he will develop into a very good player and regular left back..

Arsenal were any easy team to like - winners who played good football. Unfortunately they are now the most frustrating team in the world - nice passing game, nooooo finish. Oh well, next season looks pretty good.

I see Babel scored today :) Well done to Ajax, 4-0 to Heerenveen is no small feat. Must have been weird for Hunter, scoring two against his old club.

Oh, and about Urby, I've never seen him play, although his hair gets max props. My main thing, as I said, is that I hate Gio (and he's an ex-Gunner, I'm allowed).

Why is Arsenal looking at Babel when Van Persie( a much better player than Ryan) is perfectly suited for the left sided wide midfield/winger position?

Arsenal should consider Julien Jenner of AZ or Tim Vincken of Feyenoord for the wide midfield/winger role.

dws schreef:Why is Arsenal looking at Babel when Van Persie( a much better player than Ryan) is perfectly suited for the left sided wide midfield/winger position?

Arsenal should consider Julien Jenner of AZ or Tim Vincken of Feyenoord for the wide midfield/winger role.

Agreed, RVP kicks ass, despite his long term injury, he's still our top scorer.

This has more to do with it than anything. Arsenal seriously lack depth. We have an awesome first-team, but one or two injuries throw the whole team out of kilter.

Personally, from the sound of it, Babel is not right for Arsenal. Outside of Holland he is perceived to be almost a young Henry (a right footed striker who has been retrained for the left wing) who just needs a lot of refining. It remains to be seen whether this is just the media's impression or whether Wenger believe's it too. Wenger, for all his intellect and scouting abilities, get's some really, really crazy ideas in his head.

No that image that you gave (the henry thing who needs refining) is right. But it is not right yet for him to go to Arsenal. He still needs that refining. And it is better for him to do that at Ajax. What dws meant was that RVN is better at this moment.

No that image that you gave (the henry thing who needs refining) is right. But it is not right yet for him to go to Arsenal. He still needs that refining. And it is better for him to do that at Ajax. What dws meant was that RVN is better at this moment.

RVP, I assume :P

Do you really think he'd develop better at Ajax, speaking objectively? Wenger has a knack for developing young talent (RVP is a case in point, as are Cesc and Henry). I can see that it would be more beneficial to Ajax if he was a bit more developed, because they could demand more money. However, to the player I see little difference. The English Prem is more physical than most leagues, so the sooner any player gets there the better. The only possible advantage to Babel I could see would that his focus would be almost completely on the technical side, where as if he moved to Arsenal he may have to improve his physical side faster.

To me, if Babel has had to seek a skills coach outside Ajax, it may be to his significant benifit to get to Arsenal.

Please don't take offence, I'm very interested to understand what you mean. Believe me, if Arsenal weren't poor at the moment (and we are, what with the new stadium and fighting off a takeover) I'd really like to pay over the odds for Babel. Ajax get screwed over on all their transfers. I'm not sucking up, I honestly believe that.

And as for whether Babel is right or not... Wenger is nuts. Most often his insanity is a good kind, because its actually logic thought out so far ahead that nobody can interpret it. I believe his thinking is that if you play young, quick strikers on the wing, it gives them a chance to play first team football without sacrificing scoring possibilities for the team. It also gives them a bit more freedom and a good understanding of teamplay. You'll see that RVP and Henry are capable of devastating solo runs, but Wenger forces them to play as link men in team goals. I doubt you'll ever see Messi's Getafe goal come out of Arsenal. This has its merits, because that goal is almost impossible to recreate, while a good team goal is fairly easy to recreate.

I believe Wenger would play Babel on the wing, as he does with Walcott for these reasons.

Excuse the long post, I find all this theorising pretty interesting. It'll probably come to nothing, 'BABEL LEAVING FOR ARSENAL' just makes a good headline.

Do you really think he'd develop better at Ajax, speaking objectively? Wenger has a knack for developing young talent (RVP is a case in point, as are Cesc and Henry)

Ryan Babel of this season is a much better player than Ryan Babel of last season. His first touch and ball control has improved markedly as has his link up play. He still has some way to go before he is the finished article , but the improvement in his game point to him getting there.

RVP was the finished article in terms of technique, skill and game awareness prior to signing for Arsenal. Remember, he is a Uefa cup winner with Feyenoord from 2002. Fabregas was taken from the Barcelona youth system and was not long at Arsenal before making his debut for the first team. In other words; Wenger has had minimal input into the development of these players, whereas Ajax has recently developed players such as Sneijder, Van der Vaart, Emmanuelson, Schilder, Heitinga and Babel.

Gunner, I think you can pretty much work out where I think Babel has the best chance of improving his game. I'm sure Daniel_vT will concur.

Alright, I see your point. I do have a lot of respect for the Ajax youth system (as does Wenger, which is why he's trying to make use of it :)

The 'completely Arsenal talent' is a bit thin on the ground. Hoyte looks alright, but not brilliant, apparently Rhys Murphy looks very good.

In your opinion, when would the optimal move be? I know it's basically guess work, but I assume Babel will progress at a fairly even pace. A year? Two?

IIRC he's signed through 2011, so moving him no later than '09 would probably be the best thing from a financial stanpoint, particularly if we sell KJH after next season and Babel has a season to play as striker.

But I wouldn't be surprised if he moved at the end of the '07-'08 season.

Ajax star Ryan Babel believes his move to Arsenal will not happen this summer.

The forward has long been linked with a move to North London and his sterling performances in Holland's Under 21 Championship triumph saw him put forward as a possible replacement for Thierry Henry.

Babel has never attempted to hide his desire to join Arsene Wenger at Emirates Stadium and the 20-year-old believes he will join The Gunners at some point in his career.

However, his move to England will not come before the end of August, according to the player himself.

"There were reports about Arsenal on the internet, but so far they are nothing more than rumours," he told www.highlow.nl.

"Nothing concrete has happened. Next season I definitely play at Ajax.

"There will be a time that I will play at Arsenal. But there is nothing at the moment."

Interesting Ryan Bable "scouting report" on footballunlimited.com

Scouting report: Ryan Babel, Ajax

Ryan Babel is a strong, forceful player in the mould of a young Kevin Campbell but who loves to come short for the ball.

Steve Claridge

July 3, 2007 8:56 AM

When Thierry Henry left Arsenal there were more than a few eyes looking across to Holland at this 20-year-old striker as a potential replacement. I watched him in Holland's 2-1 win over Portugal in the European Under-21 Championship last month and I found him a bit of an enigma. He is a big, strong, forceful player in the mould of a young Kevin Campbell - yet he just loves to come short for the ball. He almost moved into a midfield role rather than what you might expect, which would be playing high up, against his defender.

However, in Maceo Rigters (who ended up with the tournament's Golden Boot) he had a willing strike partner who could stretch defences over the top with his pace, meaning opponents were reluctant to come forward and play a high line. That allowed Babel to exploit the space between midfield and the opposition defence.

Babel has a very good awareness of what is around him when he does receive the ball, which is important because you need almost peripheral vision in this area of the pitch. Against Portugal this, allied with a good first touch and strength on the ball even when closed down, meant he was able to hold off his opponent. There was a nice balance to his game with regard to when to run at people and when to release a team-mate. His success at this led to Holland's first goal: Babel received the ball and immediately got his head up to play Rigters in with a perfectly weighted pass between the centre-back and full-back. Rigters was brought down and Babel showed he is not short on confidence by stepping up and scoring the penalty.

Babel not only combined well with his fellow centre-forward but also picked the ball up wide and deep, playing either winger in with passes good enough to take their full-back out of play. Although this is his preferred way of playing, when he did push forward to a more advanced position he proved a willing runner, particularly into channels, and pulled away for the diagonal ball extremely well. One or two parts of his game made me realise why he likes to play the way he does: his hold-up play and battling qualities in the air fell a little short of what I imagined for someone of his build and strength.

Scouted by Ajax at the age of 11, he has obviously benefited by his time at the club since then. He became Holland's youngest scorer for 68 years with a goal on his full international debut, against Romania in 2005, and scored twice on the way to the last eight of the Under-20 World Cup the same year. This is a player born to play in the modern game, with all the physical attributes needed at the highest level. But the difference from players of a similar physical development at such a young age is that mentally he will not be found wanting, which can happen all too often.

Babel would be no direct replacement for Henry; if he were to join Arsenal, this season or next, I could see him in a Dennis Bergkamp-type role, dropping off a bit. He has a similar stature to Bergkamp. He needs to play alongside someone with pace, who will frighten the opposition defence so that they do not step up; this will create a hole for him to play in.

Age 20

Born Amsterdam

Position Forward

Height 6ft 1in

Weight 12st 6lb

From Ajax

Pace 8/10

Awareness 9/10

Heading 7/10

Attitude 8/10

Tackling 7/10

Passing 9/10

Team responsibility 9/10

Valuation £5m-7m

Liverpool have evidently offered 10m euros according to press over here.The Independent is a serious paper unlike the Sun and Mirror.

He has said he will stay for one more season at least so if this is not a rumour then we will have to see if he is tempted by this.

I hope Ajax are not tempted ...

They won't be, nor Should Babel be. They just bought Torres, and will sell Bellamy because of their massive haul of quality fowards. Babel is young, and will simply warm the bench at Liverpool.

SPL schreef:Liverpool have evidently offered 10m euros according to press over here.

according to De Telegraaf, it's 14 M€

Over here he is always described as a left winger. With the amount of forward
talent Liverpool have and because there are only 5 subs in League footy over here he might not get a regular place on the bench.

Martin van Geel said that Liverpool offered 15 million, Ajax directly swept it off the table and made a counter offer of 20 million euro's.. Now it is waiting if Liverpool want's to pay that.

Daniel_vT schreef:Martin van Geel said that Liverpool offered 15 million, Ajax directly swept it off the table and made a counter offer of 20 million euro's.. Now it is waiting if Liverpool want's to pay that.

I didn't see the article but I expect that the Independent quoted the price in £'s, so 14 or 15 million Euro's would be about right.

Liverpool apparently have loads to spend so let's see if they bite. 20 million would be good money indeed.......

here's a link to the Babel stroy from the BBC...confirms the £10 million bid and the £13.5 million (about 20 million Euros).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 285040.stm

SE6Ajacied schreef:

Daniel_vT schreef:Martin van Geel said that Liverpool offered 15 million, Ajax directly swept it off the table and made a counter offer of 20 million euro's.. Now it is waiting if Liverpool want's to pay that.

I didn't see the article but I expect that the Independent quoted the price in £'s, so 14 or 15 million Euro's would be about right.

Liverpool apparently have loads to spend so let's see if they bite. 20 million would be good money indeed.......

I like Babel and think he would be well served to stay at Ajax, but 20 million euros...

That's a lot of money. I would think he'd go at that price.

If they offer 20 million... you can hardly expect Ajax to turn that offer down. I would understand if they let him go at that price.

But: they demanded 20 million, and they shouldn't lower the price. I don't want to read that he eventually left for 18 or 19. We don't have to sell him, he just extended his deal, 20 million is the absolute minimum - and it's as simple as that.

K.

Nonsense. Everything above 15 million will be no less then a super-deal for Ajax. Let alone 17, 18 or 19 million.

if de Mul, Sneijder, Perez, and Babel are gone, who will we have left to play the CL and win the league ? what replacements ?

Well except for De Mul, we don't know who's gone. By August we should know who'll stay for sure, then we should get replacements. But Sneijder is somewhat irreplaceable