03 Feb 2008: Ajax - Feyenoord

[kraz11]

Today's f-word was the weakest team we played this year
great first half ... great combinations
horrible misses ...should have been 6-7 goals for us
and they didnt create 1 chance, our defence looked great with Silva, Vermaelen and of course without Urby.
Have to keep it up

[carcajou]

Was a good game, really was. I forgot my precious tulip bulbs at the stadium though :(

I knew I had it coming...

[DanK]

Was a good game, really was. I forgot my precious tulip bulbs at the stadium though :(

I knew I had it coming...

oh no!!!

I didn't even think of it when we left. At least we got the win so it wasn't all bad

[jamcocteau]

carcajou, well a trip to Amsterdam is never complete without you losing something

Great to see so many of the Ajax USA lads there today.

Well what can I say - what a difference 4 days make. Right from the start Ajax looked up for this game and should have won by a hell of a lot more goals.

Only some slack finishing and poor passing in the area prevented this being 8 or 9 goals.

Gabri was superb today. Someone earlier mentioned that Lindgren looks awful. Think first 15 minutes he was taking time to adapt to it but after that had a great game. He is what we were looking for - a midfielder who can sit in front of the defence and mop up. It was no surprise that both Heitinga and Vermaelen both had scoring chances in the game. They could go forward in the confidence that Lindgren was there to provide cover in their absence. I dont think Davids will regain his place easily after Lindgren's performance today.

Apart from a poor 2nd half performance from Kennedy the whole team should take a bow. I criticised them for their inept performance against PSV but today they showed more determination from the off.

Special mention to Heits who scored a great goal in his 200th appearance for the club. John had developed into a very good defender, far better than I thought he would, and it is obvious that he really does care about the club.

[DanK]

totally agree. All the team were great for most of the game. There was commitment and passion. Sure Kennedy's crosses were poor but his field play was strong.

Heit's has become a great player. Really matured. Pity we will probably loose him at seasons end.

Was great to see eveyone again. Safe trip to everyone on their travels home.

Before I forget. What were the chances of buying my own ticket and ending up sitting next to Bertrand in the Arena???

[Kowalczyk]

Before I forget. What were the chances of buying my own ticket and ending up sitting next to Bertrand in the Arena???

That is bizarre...

K.

[The Purple Cow]

This was the first Ajax v feijenoord I've missed in years because the under-11 cricket team I coach was playing an indoor tournament in Haarlem*.

But from what I saw on TV, the most pleasing aspect for me was the defense, which looked pretty solid. Ok, the opposition was crap - but you can only beat what's in front of you. In particular I'm really pleased with the progress of Johnny Heitinga. I've always had a soft-spot for Johnny both as a player and as a bloke, and it's great to see him develop into the sort of player we always knew he could be if he got his act together; and he has.

Thomas Vermaelan is class as well.

* We won the tournament, kicked Bloemendaal's ass in the final.

[Kowalczyk]

Don't really have much to say about this game... Ajax were great (but why now, and not last Wednesday?), Feyenoord were shit - and the season is already dead. Another one down the toilet. According to Ajax.nl the disappointment and the pain have been 'washed away' by this win. Well... no way. Absolutely not. Yesterday was great, and Ajax were really good, but the pain remains.

Let's look forward to next season: the two guys who made our day (Heitinga and Huntelaar) are two players I really, really want to stay for at least another year, but they are also the two most likely to be sold.

A quick look at the roster...

Stekelenburg: Very good goalkeeper. I hope he'll stay, but somehow it doesn't feel like he's irreplaceable. We can always get Kenneth Vermeer back (I really rate him) and our reserve goalkeepers (Gentenaar and Heijblok) are good enough for the positions they have.

Silva: I was impressed with him against Feyenoord. Could be a very good newcomer. Glad we have him (and will have him for a few more years). He's more physical than Ogararu. He gets stuck in and seems to win his aerial duels, too.

Ogararu: He's f*cked now that Silva is there. I thought he had a good start as an Ajax player last season (good crosses, especially), but he's been utter crap this season: very, very vulnerable defensively - and it seems like his forward drive has totally evaporated. To be offloaded. If someone wants him, they can have him.

Vermaelen: Class defender. Good man-marker, but I still believe he's not enough of a leader. Which means that he must be paired with an experienced, physically strong 'murderer' of a defender, who really is in command: a Stam-type, but no, I don't think Kuffour is the man who will take us to the next level.

Heitinga: One of our best. Ajax should do anything to keep him.

Emanuelson: Ajax presented it as a major triumph when they turned Spurs down, but I would have been happy to sell this bloke. He's got talent, for sure, but he's a nightmare as a man-marker and he can't crack it when the job really must be done. Too inconsistent, not enough 'bite'. Not a winner. May be sold in case of interest, for all I care.

Van der Wiel: A talent, but also a very young talent and definitely not a fully-fledged Ajax-1 player yet. Give him time to develop. The absence a central defender of his tenderage may absolutely never be brought up as an excuse for an average of 1.5 conceded goals per game (that only proves that you failed to buy a mature defender in the first place).

Colin: Good for him that he had a good match recently, but it is, of course, crystal clear that he must be offloaded. This is not the caliber we're looking for. Not even for the bench.

Kuffour: He hasn't played a minute, but I can not believe a Ghanaian thirty-something who didn't play a match since April is the man to guide us through the group phase of the Champions League. He has a six month deal and the way I look at it now, it must not be extended. Let's find the man we really want in the summer. No-one wanted Kuffour. Ajax came as a complete surprise to him. I'm afraid that says something.

Vertonghen: Not good enough as a central defender, but a pretty alright left fullback and a good option for our midfield. Good pass. Still very young. He can develop into a useful, fully-fledged member of the Ajax-1 squad.

Gabri: Henk ten Cate's only contribution to the club that I am really pleased with. Fantastic 'box to box' midfielder. Excellent man 'between the lines'. He's had a few poor weeks, but he was brilliant against Feyenoord. Ajax won't find a better one for his position.

Perez: He's been disappointing thusfar. Not as creative and dominant as I hoped he would be. I think we should regard him as a forward (not a midfielder or 'number 10') and (yet again) search for a real 'number 10'. And it will have to be a fucking great one.

Davids: Finished. Respect for the guy (now and forever), but the way he played against PSV (or against any opponent since his return to action) he simply has nothing to add. Time for Edgar to call it quits, and for Ajax to find a younger version.

Delorge: I must say: he didn't really do anything wrong (in fact: he was alright in the few games that he played), but come on... we shouldn't go for players who will keep up with the rest when Ajax are having a good game anyway. That's not good enough. We have to aim higher than that. To be offloaded.

Lindgren: Impressive at Groningen. Many people regard him as this season's umpteenth underwhelming purchase, but I disagree: it was understandable that Ajax sold him at the time, and it's perfectly understandable that they brought him back. Good idea.

Rommedahl: If he's happy on the bench, and can live with a 'pinch-hitter role', then he can stay for all I care. He's been useful on a few occasions. But we shouldn't buy players like him anymore. Let's find players who really have something to add.

Kennedy:: I still believe in this purchase. Loved him at Twente and against Feyenoord he had a very good first half. Next year will have to be the year of his big break as Ajax's right winger. He may just be good enough, I reckon.

Huntelaar: What should I say? If he wants Ajax to buy him the Royal Palace in Dam Square: do it! F*ck everyone who's moaning about him being a "great goalscorer but not a great player": he's a striker who scores a goal in every game. Period.

Urzaiz: Great cult hero, but let's face it...

Suárez: We all know his shortcomings (too selfish, misses a sitter every once in a while), but he's a major talent, he goes for every ball and he's arguably the only player in the Ajax squad who can do something silly/brilliant and win a game all by himself.

Leonardo: Okay: we have one more player who can something brilliant (and sometimes decisive)... I don't regard him as a starter, but he can play at every forward position. If he can live with a role as a 'supersub' - fine. If he starts to moan he should move on.

Luque: I refuse to put this guy on the list of 'bad buys'. In fact, I think he should get more playing time. It's good to have a smart, experienced forward who has a great shot. He's overpayed (but that's not his fault...) and losing him wouldn't be a disaster, but he can be important. I'd like to see him stay.

Manucharyan, Mitea, Krohn-Dehli, Schilder: It hasn't happened with these dudes, and it's not going to happen either. Manucharyan and Mitea are always injured and won't be able to crack it at the highest level (not anymore, anyway). Krohn-Dehli and Schilder should have been key Ajax-1 players by now (they should have been where a guy like Vermaelen is), but they aren't. Not good enough and therefore to be offloaded.

Anita, Sarpong, Donald and even De Jong: Same story as Van der Wiel, really. They should get more playing time next season, or otherwise be loaned out (this last thing doesn't go for De Jong, by the way: he will get enough playing time and must be kept in Amsterdam).

Van der Heijden: To be added to the Ajax-1 squad. He's cool.

Conclusion: let's say goodbye to Davids, Kuffour and Urzaiz, and let's sell Urby, Colin, Ogararu, Delorge, Manucharyan, Mitea, Krohn-Dehli and Schilder. To be purchased: a left fullback, a central defender, a number 10 and a left-footed midfielder. If we want a new 'battering ram' type striker, Rydell Poepon can be brought back from Willem II. The central defender should be a physically strong old hand (Stam category), but it must be a more prestigious signing than Kuffour (suggestion: someone who can actually prove how old he is, and can remember his last game). The other three should be examples of brilliantly intelligent scouting (category: Chivu, Maxwell, Trabelsi).

Forget about the Zlatan/Modric category. Players like them would sometimes gamble and choose Ajax five years ago (when '1995' was still relatively fresh), but now? They're not mad. There is no reason in the world for players of that caliber to move to Ajax at the moment, so every phonecall to their agents is a waste of time. We're not great anymore, so let's not try to compete with he great ones, but be smart instead.

No more thirty-something has beens and no more 'alright' Eredivisie players who have nothing to add. Let those days be over. And no excuses. Look at FC Groningen: they lost Silva, but 24 hours later they presented an Argentinian bloke named Cahais. Left-footed defender, captain of Argentina U-20 and a player of Boca Juniors (albeit not a starter). I don't know the guy (perhaps he's shit), but it's a remarkably prestigious purchase no matter how you look at it. If a club like Groningen has people like Cahais lined up, and only have to snap their fingers at the right moment in order to finalize the deal, it really should be possible for a club like Ajax to find someone better than Kuffour ('the next Chivu' or something).

As for board and management: let's wait for the conclusions of The Committee and let's keep in mind that the club's #1 problem 'at the top' (management/executive level) is the number of changes of recent seasons, more than anything else. I don't think axing people is the solution. Let's only do that if we can get top drawer people (Hiddink as technical director, for example). But a new chairman (Jaakke) or CEO (Fontein)? I don't think I see the point.

K.

[Philippe]

Kuffour: He hasn't played a minute, but I can not believe a Ghanese thirty-something who didn't play a match since April can impossibly be the man to guide us through the group phase of the Champions League. He has a six month deal that must not be extended. Let's find the man we really want in the summer.
K.

I do not understand what's your problem with Kuffour (and what's wrong with being a Ghanese) apart from prejudice. As you say he has not played at all so far. Just give him a chance.

[Arthur]

I agree with you for 99%, but I think you're too soon in writing Davids off. People forget that when he came over last season Davids was kind of shit in the beginning as well. He's been out for six months and his lack of 'rhythm' is clearly showing. I expect him to grow back to his level of the end of last season if he can get a string of games going.

[Kowalczyk]

I do not understand what's your problem with Kuffour (and what's wrong with being a Ghanese)

On second thought: I do know what's wrong with the word Ghanese... It's 'Ghanaian', innit?



K.

[Kowalczyk]

I agree with you for 99%, but I think you're too soon in writing Davids off. People forget that when he came over last season Davids was kind of shit in the beginning as well. He's been out for six months and his lack of 'rhythm' is clearly showing. I expect him to grow back to his level of the end of last season if he can get a string of games going.

Maybe you're right. I sure hope so.

So... if he returns to his old level and starts to rock again, we're 100% on the same wavelength?



K.

[Arthur]

So... if he returns to his old level and starts to rock again, we're 100% on the same wavelength?



K.

Pretty much.

I don't want Adriaanse to come back, so you don't have to worry about a lack of disagreement

What is your position on the management? Here's mine:

Van Geel
He seems to be doing great when selling players for enormous prices, he has an eye for the youth system and he does well managing the contracts of the players in so far that nobody leaves for free anymore. However, this is all overshadowed heavily by his lack of imagination when it comes to finding new players.
The ideal situation would be to let him do what he's good at and find someone else to find and contract the new players, but I really doubt if such a demotion would be acceptable to him. If not, he will have to go, because the reality is that we still suck just as much as when he came a couple of years ago.

Fontein
I had very low expectations of this man, but I must say that I'm quite impressed with his accomplishments. Getting Ajax in the top 10 of highest paying shirt sponsors is great and I think his approach to getting into China will pay off because of his experience there.
He has said that he's responsible if Ajax don't become champions and will understand if he has to go, but I hope he will be able to stay and finish his plans.

Slop
I don't know enough about this man to have an informed opinion. Financially Ajax seem healthy enough, but, as the cliche goes, the capital should be on the field and not in the bank.

[SPL]

I agree with most of what Ko says.When I made a point last week about a clear out I thought about 15 players should/will go but thought I would leave it to one of you experts to name names.

To the list of new buys we will need a striker as surely KJH will be sold!
Would you see Suarez as a main striker or will we need someone else?

[Van basten]

To the list of new buys we will need a striker as surely KJH will be sold!
Would you see Suarez as a main striker or will we need someone else?

If KJH leaves, we definetely need to find a replacement fo him, coz we can't stay with 0 real strikers.

[Kowalczyk]

What is your position on the management? Here's mine:

Van Geel
He seems to be doing great when selling players for enormous prices, he has an eye for the youth system and he does well managing the contracts of the players in so far that nobody leaves for free anymore. However, this is all overshadowed heavily by his lack of imagination when it comes to finding new players.
The ideal situation would be to let him do what he's good at and find someone else to find and contract the new players, but I really doubt if such a demotion would be acceptable to him. If not, he will have to go, because the reality is that we still suck just as much as when he came a couple of years ago.

Fonteijn
I had very low expectations of this man, but I must say that I'm quite impressed with his accomplishments. Getting Ajax in the top 10 of highest paying shirt sponsors is great and I think his approach to getting into China will pay off because of his experience there. He has said that he's responsible if Ajax don't become champions and will understand if he has to go, but I hope he will be able to stay and finish his plans.

Slop
I don't know enough about this man to have an informed opinion. Financially Ajax seem healthy enough, but, as the cliche goes, the capital should be on the field and not in the bank.

100% agreed.

Jeroen Slop is just the book-keeper. I don't see why he should leave. Fontein is doing great work. Jaakke? I've heard loads of people say/yell/sing that he should fuck off, but I am yet to meet the first person to cough up a valid argument to support that statement.

Slop, Fontein and Jaakke can stay, unless The Committee comes up with valid points against them. For example: I think a man like Jaakke should keep his mouth shut at all times when it comes to 'technical affairs' (football stuff). If it turns out that he doesn't, something must be done. But even then I don't necessarily think he should be dismissed. It can also be a matter of re-structuring (re-defining the responsibilities of certain positions), or even reminding people of what their position is - and which issues they are not allowed to shine their light on.

I've never heard Fontein say anything about football, so I think he understands the point. About Jaakke I have more doubts: if it really is true that the 'technical' people want Co Adriaanse, but Jaakke is veto'ing it, something is seriously wrong. This has nothing to do with my opinion (or yours) on Co Adriaanse; it's about the general point that a chairman like John Jaakke should not have the position to veto the 'football people' (Van Geel and, to a lesser extent, the board member of technical affairs, Hennie Henrichs).

I really look forward to the Committee's conclusions about board and directors, because they really know what they're talking about. We don't. We can have our thoughts, but we can not really know how these folks really function within the professional organisation that is Ajax.

K.

[Cedric]

Interesting discussion, maybe that should be moved somewhere else (The commission thread ?) cause it should'nt be lost on this board...

I especially like the opinions of Ko and Arthur on Van Geel. It seems like everyone says he's utter crap, but he did some very good job on some points. It's not him who sold Zlatan for a bunch of pinuts on the last day if you see what I mean... Now, he's not really convincing when it comes to buying players. He brought some brillant players, but they were all confirmed already, and came to Ajax mainly because Ajax can offer more money than any other dutch club. The second category of purchase is not really convincing, or at least "stange". I won't blame him for Colin (Ten Cate) or Urzaiz (Ten Cate too I guess, and well, he could have been useful), but if you compare with other clubs, there's obviously something wrong. When you see PSV buying Dszudsak, Groningen Cahais, etc, and that Ajax is only able to buy former and/or Groningen players, you see that Ajax can do better...

[Arthur]

For example: I think a man like Jaakke should keep his mouth shut at all times when it comes to 'technical affairs' (football stuff).

Agreed. In my opinion his job is to represent Ajax to the outside and maybe even to attract criticism that should be aimed at other people so they can keep working in peace. The most he should do is give advice.

I really look forward to the Committee's conclusions about board and directors, because they really know what they're talking about.

To be honest I don't have much faith in the committee. They seem to be pretty lightweight and they weren't supposed to evaluate individuals although that seems to be what they're doing. The problems were already there before any of the current people (directors, coaches and players) were present, so the committee should look further than that. We'll see what they come up with.

[Philippe]

Slop, Fontein and Jaakke can stay, unless The Committee comes up with valid points against them. For example: I think a man like Jaakke should keep his mouth shut at all times when it comes to 'technical affairs' (football stuff). If it turns out that he doesn't, something must be done. But even then I don't necessarily think he should be dismissed. It can also be a matter of re-structuring (re-defining the responsibilities of certain positions), or even reminding people of what their position is - and which issues they are not allowed to shine their light on.

I've never heard Fontein say anything about football, so I think he understands the point. About Jaakke I have more doubts: if it really is true that the 'technical' people want Co Adriaanse, but Jaakke is veto'ing it, something is seriously wrong. This has nothing to do with my opinion (or yours) on Co Adriaanse; it's about the general point that a chairman like John Jaakke should not have the position to veto the 'football people' (Van Geel and, to a lesser extent, the board member of technical affairs, Hennie Henrichs).K.

conclusion : Jaakke should leave, just like fans have been demanding it for months ...

anyways, time to party :

Bert van Marwijk had difficulty getting to grips with the result. ,,I have never experienced anything like this”, the disappointed coach said. ,,We were humiliated and we created nothing.”

[SPL]

Should we blame Van Geel for all the signings? Koster must have made some input to recent signings.Last summers signings were surely down to Ten Cate.

Under Van Geel we are now getting good money for players and apart from Maduro he has handled contracts very well. It was not his fault that on taking over we had about 6 good players all in the last year of their contracts and left on Bosmans.

[carcajou]

I do not understand what's your problem with Kuffour (and what's wrong with being a Ghanese) apart from prejudice. As you say he has not played at all so far. Just give him a chance.

In my opinion being:

Ghanaian, a football player and 32 means that there is a high probability that you are around 38, meaning the guy is probably roasted. I don't know if you remember Osei Kuffour playing for Munich in 94/95 (we won 5-2), there's no way that guy was 17 at the time....

[Kowalczyk]

Re-posting...

went to see ajax-feyenoord, 3-0 and we were great game, and my beloved newcastle got serious competion.....

seriously becoming a

one question, whats the deal about feyenoord, what made this match so speciel?? other than two of the usual frontrunners, two of the biggest towns in holland of course.....

K.

[ajaxusa]

Watching a recording of the game (Setanta broadcast), and my 9 year old son Ryan says, "That's Menno!". Yeah, right, sez I. So we back it up and sure enough...

http://www.ajaxusa.com/about/assets/CIMG3433.jpg

Ryan hasn't even seen Menno in three years... I guess he's just got one of those faces you can't forget.

Wanna see it in video form?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4K04fOhORnc

[DanK]

Watching a recording of the game (Setanta broadcast), and my 9 year old son Ryan says, "That's Menno!". Yeah, right, sez I. So we back it up and sure enough...

http://www.ajaxusa.com/about/assets/CIMG3433.jpg

Ryan hasn't even seen Menno in three years... I guess he's just got one of those faces you can't forget.

Wanna see it in video form?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4K04fOhORnc

LMFAO...that's a lovely chicken dance Menno :)

[Kowalczyk]

Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you: I have my on TV show in the States, these days...

K.