31 Jul 2005: Ajax - Boca Juniors

[Kowalczyk]

Personally, I am really looking forward to this one. We've played Arsenal (too) many times in the past few seasons (Amsterdam Tournament and Champions League). Bit boring. Boca Juniors really are something different, as an opponent. We can only bump into them in friendlies (or for the World Cup in Tokyo...). Will be a nice one.

K.

[ZoefdeHaas]

Im looking foward to thyis, lets hope Maxima gives a visit :D

[Kowalczyk]

35,000 tickets sold for Day 2 so far. Tickets will be available at the ArenA box offices before the game! Plenty of seats available (15,000 in total), so don't hesitate to show up on match day!

K.

[SE6Ajacied]

Boca Juniors We can only bump into them in friendlies (or for the World Cup in Tokyo...).

K.

Unfortunately not any more - haven't they just scrapped it in favour of the World Club "Championship" X'C

[Kowalczyk]

Unfortunately not any more - haven't they just scrapped it in favour of the World Club "Championship" X'C

Yeah, they changed it into a little tournament. Which I think is fair enough because they also want to include the winner of the African Champions League and stuff. But the same Toyota Cup is still at stake, I believe...

K.

[SE6Ajacied]

Unfortunately not any more - haven't they just scrapped it in favour of the World Club "Championship" X'C

Yeah, they changed it into a little tournament. Which I think is fair enough because they also want to include the winner of the African Champions League and stuff. But the same Toyota Cup is still at stake, I believe...

K.

Yeah, you're right about including the winners from Africa and other areas except Europe and South America. I'm just very sceptical about it all as I'm wondering how long before it's all devalued like the European CL and the winners from the "lesser" countries/continents have to pre-qualify and all that like has happened in Europe. I'm sure the Toyata Cup tournement wasn't some sort of benevolent institution but this just seems like another marketting exercise for the richest teams in the world(that must be the Blackpool fan in me talking)

[ZoefdeHaas]

From what I heard if you are a lucky winner at the dag 2 of the amsterdam tournament, you can win a shirt signed by VdV.

Ill bring my camera.

[john_stein]

0-1. Now this is starting to worry me. I didn't see the game but I have seen ALL the games of Boca in the last few years and believe me they are not better than Ajax and right now they are passing through a crisis, so I didnt expect this result. I heard Stekelenburg and Trabelsi got injured, how serious is it?
I just hope the team learns from the mistakes made in these games and we can improve before the important games come up.
Go Ajax!

[Kowalczyk]

This was shit. Plain crap. A really, really seriously worrying defeat. We looked like shit, Boca controlled the game and outplayed us during large stretches (especially in the first half). Ajax totally failed to create danger upfront and the passing was terrible.

Two more games (Omniworld and p$v) in the next 9 or 10 days and then we have to be ready for Brøndby!

K.

[ZoefdeHaas]

1) Get the defence back on earth

2) get charisteas out, lethal finisher needed

3) sneijder needs a hair change

[Kowalczyk]

And oh yeah: Trabelsi and Stekelenburg collided during the game (it was a bit clumsy of Stekelenburg to storm out of his goal there, by the way...). Trabelsi has a concussion and will be out for ten days. He might be back in time for the first Brøndby game, but we must not count on it. Stekelenburg unsettled his arm or something and he will be out for up to six weeks. Great! :nooo:

F#cking hell, what a crap tournament! Given the rules of thew tourney (a point for every goal scored) it's quite an achievement in itself to finish with zero points -- but we did it!

K.

[SPL]

A poor game . The commentator on Sky kept on saying our big problem is up front where we have not replaced Zlatan.It may not be the answer but Babel should be up front and not out on the wing. Put him there next game.

On the goalkeeper front twice last season Steks was made first choice and immediately got injured. Now it has happened again. We had 3 goalies last season because of injury and now it looks the same could happen this season.We need one fit goalie for every game, maybe it will happen one year!!!


One thing I am sure we all agree with is that in the next week Ajax need to decide whether they want De Jong and Pienaar to stay and if so offer them a proper pay rise. The point was made in the game that Trabelsi will be going on a free next summer and it made me think he wont be the only one unless the club pulls its finger out.

[AjaxThailand]

That was a disaster. I am so dissapointed and frankly I have fear for this coming season. If anything IMHO, we are not any stronger and probably weaker then the team was this time last year. I know I dont post often but i had to today so i am sorry for the extremely long post what will now follow lol

I would just like give my opinion over some players and the team in general.

*
Goalkeeper situation is a mess again. Lobont has shown over the years that he is not good enough to be our number 1. Stekelenberg keeps on getting injured and i got nervous during the game a couple of times when he had to pass the ball while the opposite team was putting presure on him. He has been around long enough now so if he still doesnt step up to the plate then I think its better to start scouting for a good number 1. I think we all hyped up Vermeer and i cant see how he can be ready yet this year.

*
Defence i think is extremely week. Grygera and Escude were brought in with a lot of high expectations and i frankly think they have failed and esp. Escude. I can not understand why Blind made him captain and even worse is putting him as left back. He got destroyed by the other guy. I think we need some real full backs and then preferably one who can pass like De Boer. We need a player like Alex or Stam who have this qualities to lead a defence and see problems before they actually happen. It was like kindergarden in the Ajax defence today as it was many times last year.

I think its very likely that next year we wont have either Maxwell and Trabelsi. Couldnt we have replacements allready so that they can fit in easilyonce those guys leave. Look, now both are injured and we dont have any capable replacement.

Middfield is somewhat better then the rest. I think De Jong will do nice this year and i hope Sneyder will reach a higher leavel and more goals. I am still sad that VDV left us and then also for a sub top team in germany, not even Bayern Munich. I think Davids could have been very valauble for us in that midfield.

Attack is a problem and has been a problem for some time. During the time of Mido, Zlatan, Gabrich, Arveladze we had problems. Lets be fair, the times that we were happy with zlatan was probably much fewer then the times we complained and moaned about him. I know its tough for us to find a striker at a young age and then hope that you got it right and that they become the type we need and is able to make more then 20 goals a year. I think we cant judge our new Swedish striker yet but looking at the Greek today i can not understand how they ever bought this player. I even prefer Machlas over him. This guy has no moves to go past his defender, he is pretty clumsy and he simply doesnt score. I hope they will stop buying greek striker. He cost a lot of money and i rather have bought some young upcoming talents eirther local or in Brazil for all i care.

We all love Babel and we have strong hopes for him. But as Blind said tonight on TV. he misses or doesnt have enough skills in certain parts of his game to be the main striker for Ajax at this monent. I pray that he will improve and end up there. I dont like him at the left wing possition. He cant or almost never send a pass into the penalty box, his moves for passing defenders are also a bit limited. He is aways trying to pass the defender the same way and doesnt get by him that often. Mitea playes nice in the short amount of time that he played the last 2 games. However having to do that during 90 min. is a different story. Right wing with Pienaar plays strong at times and week at other time. People are looking forward to Rosales coming back like he is the Mesiah but is he really that good of a winger? IMHO not really. Cant compare him with Overmars, Finidi or even van het Schip to just name a few from the past.


So whats the inventory if I may call it like that of our team. We have a few gifted talends like Maduro and Babel, some former talents who have not really grown to a higer level in some time, Schneyder, De Jonk, Pienaar and Heitinga and then we have have / had a platoon of foreigners like Gregyera, Escude, Rosales and Charisteas who all earn good salaries and have cost us good money and I feel that it has been a waste of money and probably could have found dutch players that were equally as good And then finally we have the players that for various reasons are actually too weak to even consider for Ajax 1, Boukhari, Obodai and then others that we were lucky enough to rent out.

I keep hearing Blind saying that he needs only a left back. I would look for a good central defender like Chivu was, get replacement also for Trabelsi, the sneaky bastard has probably allready signed a deal with some club and he will be gone next year, get a slightly more experience midfielder that controls the midfield and supervise the yound guys like De Jong and Schneyder (landzaat would have been an option or Davids) and to find better solutions for left and right wing. I cant see this current team really competing for european cups and the main reason is the defence.

[Kowalczyk]

I agree with almost everything you say except the bits about Escudé and Grygera. You're crapping all over the team - and for a reason - but in your (understandable) anger you forget to spare a few people, and they are definitely two of the ones that deserve to be spared.

I don't know how frequently you've seen Grygera and Escudé play last season (and in pre-season), but they were two of Ajax's best last year (my personal #1 and #2 Men of the Season). The number of goals we conceded was 50% lower when Grygera played and he started scoring some goals as well.

Most importantly, their self-esteem has gone up since their first season (2003-2004). They now dare to go forward and build up attacks, which they're both quite good at (especially Escudé, who's also a very worthy captain).

Those two have not been a waste of money -- quite on the contrary. I'm happy we have them, because they're both way better defenders than Heitinga or Maduro.

Grygera was great even against Arsenal, but yesterday he didn't play due to injury, whereas Escudé just returned from injury and only played the first half. These two guys can not be blamed for yesterday's result or for any other bad result of recent times, as they've been nearly flawless for a full year now. If everyone was as good as Escudé or Grygera we would not have a problem at all.

I think our real problem lies upfront, where we seem so f*cking powerless. Drives me insane. And this has been the case for more than a whole year now. This criticism is not aimed at Rosenberg, who didn't play against Boca and wasn't there yet last season. But the rest are doing something wrong. There are whole games in which we're just never dangerous. No thru-passes from Sneijder, not a single shot on goal from Pienaar or Babel, not a single thing whatsoever from Charisteas... Maybe they're not top drawer, but even then they should bring more. I don't get it.

K.

[Kowalczyk]

Ladies and gentlemen, the match report is up on Ajax USA. Not written by me this time, but by our man Jim McGough, who had a rare chance to watch a game in its entirety in California...

Here you go!

http://www.ajax-usa.com/matches/m05-06/ ... -loss.html

K.

[DanK]

I don't know how frequently you've seen Grygera and Escudé play last season (and in pre-season), but they were two of Ajax's best last year (my personal #1 and #2 Men of the Season). The number of goals we conceded was 50% lower when Grygera played and he started scoring some goals as well.K.

I wasn't impressed with Grygera (even traded him on my copy of Football Manager for what is worth...lol). That was until towards the end of the season. He came into his own and I would have hate to have seen how poorly we would have faired if he (and for that matter Escude) hadn't have played.

Don't know why the team breaks down up front. Their just doesn't seem any thrust anymore. Lets hope Rosy comes up trumps after another game or two.

[Philippe]

This was terrible. What is very worrying is that we have the same problems as last season. There has been no improvement. We lost van der Vaart, and gained two clowns instead. We are still looking for a striker : it is obvious that Charisteas will never fit in the Ajax system.
All we could do is pass the ball around, but we were unable to create goal chances.
The only ones who played well were Stekelenburg, and Trabelsi ( both out for a couple of weeks …) and Mitea.
Somehow it reminded me of the last CL game in Israel.

[Frans]

After the Bielefeld game, seemed like everyone was happy. Now they're laying into the team like it's about to go out of fashion. Give them a break. If they're still playing shit 5-10 games into the season, then we can start to wonder. But remember, this is the PRE-season. where combinations and structures are tried out. Good players don't lose their talent overnight, and neither are good teams formed in a couple of weeks. Several players have come into the squad only recently after an extended break. They'll be right before Brondby.

[The Purple Cow]

Has there ever been a more injury-prone goalkeeper than Maarten Stekelenberg?

I think he had two decent games in the tourney, but most goalkeepers get injured about once in every three years. He gets injured once in every three weeks.

He's the John O'Brien of goakeepers.

[Philippe]

Several players have come into the squad only recently after an extended break.

who are they ? I don't see so many new faces. The whole thing seems on the contrary very familiar to me.

[ZoefdeHaas]

Charisteas, Trabelsi, babel, Maduro and Emanuelson from their national teams.

We need someone who can open the game from defence, and a striker. i'd say get Mendes da Silva and Huntelaar or someone, at least they'll buy us time :eusa_liar:

[SE6Ajacied]

Well I was really up for that - Two home games in two days, I was really buzzing. I actually quite enjoyed yesterday despite the game/result. It was good to be back in the ArenA. I'm starting to realise that my "boring" assessment of the Arsenal game was mainly because I don't remember much and that tht was more down to what I had to drink than the quality of the game . Anyway, from what I do remember and the repeat on the TV there was no quality so I didn't miss much.

Thought SQD especially good yesterday (stood out in a poor team) but I'm still getting flashbacks of Heitinga's "backpass"....aarghhh!!!

[carcajou]

Well I was really up for that - Two home games in two days, I was really buzzing. I actually quite enjoyed yesterday despite the game/result. It was good to be back in the ArenA. I'm starting to realise that my "boring" assessment of the Arsenal game was mainly because I don't remember much and that tht was more down to what I had to drink than the quality of the game . Anyway, from what I do remember and the repeat on the TV there was no quality so I didn't miss much.

Thought SQD especially good yesterday (stood out in a poor team) but I'm still getting flashbacks of Heitinga's "backpass"....aarghhh!!!

Escude was OK, but God is he slow.... I didn´t know that. That could be a problem if Blind keeps using a 3-4-3 formation. BTW, I had a 5 minutes talk with him this morning after training. He told me that he was feeling better (he had a sight problem at the muscle of the rear of the thigh), and that the long holidays had been a really good thing. He´s ready. Another interesting thing he told me : unlike what I thought, players are REALLY affected by the whistles at the end of the games. He told me that the players don´t understand whistles so soon in the season, they have the impression that they´re not allowed to make the least mistake and some players feel a lot of pressure pressure because of that (the youngest ones in particular). Even Thierry Henry told him that he didn´t understand the reaction of the crowd.

[Philippe]

Even Thierry Henry told him that he didn´t understand the reaction of the crowd.

One of the many things Henry does not understand. What's the problem ? Supporters are supposed not to express their disappointment after such terrible playing ? He must be kidding.
Players should feel the pressure and do with it.