Ajaxtalk

The draw took place today and Ajax will play the Greek team PAOK in the CL qualifying match. Exact date has not been determined yet and the first match will be in Amsterdam on July 26 or 27. Ajax played PAOK several years ago in a CL qualifier when Martin Jol was manager and advanced to the group stage.

Good draw in my opinion. The qualifier in 2010 with Martin Jol was a narrow escape when we played terrible after a 1-1 at home and were very lucky with a 3-3 draw in the away game.

Ajaxtalk member SaddlerIan is living in Greece since a couple of years and souras is Greek, right?

I'm looking for some interesting routes to travel this one ( no, not the one from North Africa via the Mediterranean Sea ) and perhaps also for travel mates as this is not really a popular one.

PAOK (GRE) 37.440
Steaua București (ROU) 36.576
Monaco (FRA) 36.549
Young Boys (SUI) 24.755
Rostov (RUS) 11.716

According to the UEFA ranking this is the toughest opponent out of the 5 options. But I disagree.

Analyzing this 'from a Cruijff prospective' a team like Monaco or the one with the lowest amount of teams, Rostov from Russia are tougher teams with for the Ajax game a more difficult play style.

Yes I am happy with the draw and we should get through but then we could play Roma Monaco or Monchengladbach.

Not a bad draw, but Bosz is new, so I am not expecting a landslide victory. Ajax usually have a good record against Greek teams, although records don't mean much today, we will wait and see.

Ayman schreef:Not a bad draw, but Bosz is new, so I am not expecting a landslide victory.

I do. This kind of teams will have trouble with a team that starts attacking with their wingers and that is exactly what I expect Ajax (with Cerny, Muric and Younes) expext to do.

Ayman schreef:Ajax usually have a good record against Greek teams, although records don't mean much today, we will wait and see.

A good record indeed, although it was a big shock to see Ajax have a 0-1 lose in the CK semi finals 1996 in the Olympic Stadium against Panathinaikos. The return game however, a 0-3 win in Athens with a brilliant Jari Litmanen was probably one of the best Ajax games I have ever seen.

Cruijff schreef:

Ayman schreef:Not a bad draw, but Bosz is new, so I am not expecting a landslide victory.

I do. This kind of teams will have trouble with a team that starts attacking with their wingers and that is exactly what I expect Ajax (with Cerny, Muric and Younes) expext to do.

Ayman schreef:Ajax usually have a good record against Greek teams, although records don't mean much today, we will wait and see.

A good record indeed, although it was a big shock to see Ajax have a 0-1 lose in the CK semi finals 1996 in the Olympic Stadium against Panathinaikos. The return game however, a 0-3 win in Athens with a brilliant Jari Litmanen was probably one of the best Ajax games I have ever seen.

Cerny and Younes are brilliant and have proven themselves to a certain degree, Muric is a talent, but has not proven himself on the same scale as the other two.

As for 1996 game against Panathinaikos. You brought back great memories, and since the nucleus of the team is staying i.e. Klaassen, Veltman, Cillessen and Milik, I wonder, I just wonder if, maybe, well who knows, don't forget the last hurdle of the CL qualifiers include teams like Man City, B. Munchengladbach, F.C Porto, Villareal and A.S Roma, who are all far better than Ajax, on paper at least

Ayman schreef:As for 1996 game against Panathinaikos. You brought back great memories, and since the nucleus of the team is staying i.e. Klaassen, Veltman, Cillessen and Milik, I wonder, I just wonder if, maybe, well who knows, don't forget the last hurdle of the CL qualifiers include teams like Man City, B. Munchengladbach, F.C Porto, Villareal and A.S Roma, who are all far better than Ajax, on paper at least

After this round is done and when Ajax elimates PAOK there are only 5 options you can draw as the next opponent. Man City, FC Porto and Villarreal can't be drawed as Ajax has, despite the poor recent results in Europa, enough 'UEFA coefficient points' for a seeded status in the last qualification round.

Ayman schreef:As for 1996 game against Panathinaikos. You brought back great memories,

Let's bing brack great memories, let's watch great memories!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk5xBNZy7PA

Hope there is one on the web with English or even with Greek comments, that would probably make it even greater.

Cruijff schreef:

Ayman schreef:As for 1996 game against Panathinaikos. You brought back great memories, and since the nucleus of the team is staying i.e. Klaassen, Veltman, Cillessen and Milik, I wonder, I just wonder if, maybe, well who knows, don't forget the last hurdle of the CL qualifiers include teams like Man City, B. Munchengladbach, F.C Porto, Villareal and A.S Roma, who are all far better than Ajax, on paper at least

After this round is done and when Ajax elimates PAOK there are only 5 options you can draw as the next opponent. Man City, FC Porto and Villarreal can't be drawed as Ajax has, despite the poor recent results in Europa, enough 'UEFA coefficient points' for a seeded status in the last qualification round.

Ayman schreef:As for 1996 game against Panathinaikos. You brought back great memories,

Let's bing brack great memories, let's watch great memories!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk5xBNZy7PA

Hope there is one on the web with English or even with Greek comments, that would probably make it even greater.

this is confusing, so who can Ajax potentially draw? According to wikipedia, its the ones I mentioned above. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%8 ... -off_round

Ayman schreef:this is confusing, so who can Ajax potentially draw? According to wikipedia, its the ones I mentioned above. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%8 ... -off_round

No we can't draw them all. Only the 'unseeded'.
AS Roma and AS Monaco are now the 'strongest' teams possible, but not sure if all teams with high coefficient points will survice this round so perhaps only the 'small teams' will be left.

Porto and Man City are for sure no options.

In the Dutch part of this forum we've figured it all out in Loting voorronde Champions League topic

http://www.ajaxtalk.nl/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12773

Daarna Jablonec, Molde, Celtic, AC Wolfsberger, Young Boys en vervolgens lekker weer alleen de competitie?

Molde are not involved, Rosenborg are the Norwegian representatives. Who is 'AC Wolfsberger'>?

Ayman schreef:

Daarna Jablonec, Molde, Celtic, AC Wolfsberger, Young Boys en vervolgens lekker weer alleen de competitie?

Molde are not involved, Rosenborg are the Norwegian representatives. Who is 'AC Wolfsberger'>?

This is a Dutch Ajax fan being cynical after our poor results against Jablonec, Molde, Celtic, Rapid Wien in the past.

His message is that will two European games and then can focus on the league again. I don't agree with that.

AC Wolfsberger is this team from Austria:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfsberger_AC

So his very cynical message is 'after getting our ass kicked against Salzburg now we will also lose against AC Wolfsberger and the European season is over'.

We will win all the qualifying matches and go into the group play of the CL. This team will prevail!!! As a supporter I believe my team will win every game (but I'm often disappointed).

Orange14 schreef:We will win all the qualifying matches and go into the group play of the CL. This team will prevail!!! As a supporter I believe my team will win every game (but I'm often disappointed).

PSV and even Feyenoord are likely to do better in Europe than Ajax

Feyenoord?

SPL schreef:Yes I am happy with the draw and we should get through but then we could play Roma Monaco or Monchengladbach.

I like the "should".......I'm only a €40 flight from Thessalonika...but I don't think I'll be going! Having seen the pre-season work, there is NO way this team is ready to play POAK...just the atmosphere will give many of the youngsters much needed experience of being scared!!!

As I said after the Leifering game, there seems to almost nothing there....the boss will have to have worked miracles to even come second in this tie!!!

SaddlerIan schreef:

SPL schreef:Yes I am happy with the draw and we should get through but then we could play Roma Monaco or Monchengladbach.

I like the "should".......I'm only a €40 flight from Thessalonika...but I don't think I'll be going! Having seen the pre-season work, there is NO way this team is ready to play POAK...just the atmosphere will give many of the youngsters much needed experience of being scared!!!

Guys like Cerny are not scared of scoring the winning goal at a packed Celtic Park.

We play at home first, should intimidate PAOK in Amsterdam Arena and then travel to Greece with a win.

I understand you don't have a lot of confidence about Champions League qualification after these friendlies, but friendlies are a different cup of tea and Peter Bosz decided to also give heavy training mornings on the match day as that how he is building it up in pre season.

When we play a game that matters and the first one is Amsterdam Arena we should expect some creativity from some of our more or less creative players...

Ayman schreef:well who knows, don't forget the last hurdle of the CL qualifiers include teams like Man City, B. Munchengladbach, F.C Porto, Villareal and A.S Roma, who are all far better than Ajax, on paper at least

Time to clear some stuff up. Opponents in the last round can be:

- AS Roma
- Borussia Mönchengladbach
- RSC Anderlecht or FK Rostov
- Fenerbahce or AS Monaco
- Sparta Praag or Steaua Boekarest

In case Young Boys from Switzerland succeeds to eliminate Shaktar Donetsk they also move upwards to this list.

Cruijff schreef:

Ayman schreef:well who knows, don't forget the last hurdle of the CL qualifiers include teams like Man City, B. Munchengladbach, F.C Porto, Villareal and A.S Roma, who are all far better than Ajax, on paper at least

Time to clear some stuff up. Opponents in the last round can be:

- AS Roma
- Borussia Mönchengladbach
- RSC Anderlecht or FK Rostov
- Fenerbahce or AS Monaco
- Sparta Praag or Steaua Boekarest

In case Young Boys from Switzerland succeeds to eliminate Shaktar Donetsk they also move upwards to this list.

I would take any of them except for AS Roma or Borussia Mönchengladbach

I don't believe we are going to win the qualifier against paok. Why?

1. First of all, we aren't looking good since the end of last season. Haven't heard a good thing since Bosz arrived. Maybe he is hiding stuff, which I doubt, but I guess he is trying to implement a different model than the one the team played for at least 3-4 years. In what? 1-2 months?? Better play the qualifier in a Portuguese style. Paok coach Ivic, has played 2 times under Fernando Santos (AEK, PAOK) and is an admirer of his style of football. You will see.

2. I just saw the highlights of our loss against Gent. I see we continue to make the same silly passes between defenders and clever teams put the pressure up high. We make the mistake, they hit us on the counter, it brings back painful memories of Salzburg. Not saying that the Greek team is anything close to them. They had Igor Tudor as their manager until March I think? Then Ivic was promoted and he made the team more realistic. They stay back wait for the mistake and have really quick wingers. Their midfield is solid and will cause us a lot of trouble. Their defence and GK aren't that great so that brings me to my 3rd point.

3. WE HAVE TO START CONVERTING OUR CHANCES!!! It has been a pain in the ass for many of the De Boer years and a big WHAT IF. We haven't been clinical in the attack and we paid that hugely. With titles and bad results. Especially when a team sits deep and waits for the counter, it's more like serving their game. Paok did that in the final couple of months in the Greek playoffs and never lost to a bigger team. They manage to escape with either the draw or win. Usually that happens in the final 15-20 minutes of the game.

Anyway, I wish that we play for the result, which may displease most of you. I think, that if Bosz is smart he will deploy a serious team, that won't lose the ball on its own. We better win 1-0 than end up in a rollercoaster game. Smaller teams like Paok play the game of their lives against big teams like us. They did this against Tottenham, Dortmund in the past 3-4 years and won. Greek summer is cruel and the temps in the return game in Salonika will be awful. It can make us look weak. Let's hope a team of men play those games and not some little children. Or else, we will be waving goodbye to a major chance of advancing to the CL group phase and some good money.

Souras84 - Excellent analysis.

Orange14 schreef:Souras84 - Excellent analysis.

That is true about the analysis.

But

1. I still don't understand why souras and SaddlerIan would not visit the return game when they have such a quick and affordable entrance to it.
2. We are bloody Ajax. We did not only beat Fiorentina and Manchester City very unexpected in years that we had a poor selection (the current one is better), but also used to humiliate AC Milan and Real Madrid when we had no money at all and they were the richest on earth

Soooooo.... just be an Ajacied and demand a win against a mid table team.

COME ON!!!!!

This has no bearings on the up coming game, however, for the record.

In the CL qualifying round. Ajax qualified 3 times and failed to qualify 4 times.
Qualified 2003-04, 2005-06, 2010-11. Not qualifying 2001-02, 2006-07, 2007-08, 2015-16

PAOK failed to qualify 3 times and qualifed 1 time.
Not qualified 2004-05, 2010-11, 2013-14. qualified 2015-16

It's a tough one to call, I just hope Bosz, has the balls to drop over hyped players i.e. Bazoer

Ayman schreef:This has no bearings on the up coming game, however, for the record.

In the CL qualifying round. Ajax qualified 3 times and failed to qualify 4 times.
Qualified 2003-04, 2005-06, 2010-11. Not qualifying 2001-02, 2006-07, 2007-08, 2015-16

Time to even the score to 4-4!!

Ayman schreef:PAOK failed to qualify 3 times and qualifed 1 time.
Not qualified 2004-05, 2010-11, 2013-14. qualified 2015-16

It's a tough one to call, I just hope Bosz, has the balls to drop over hyped players i.e. Bazoer

That is not correct, I think. In my memory out of 4 qualification attempts they succeeded zero times and also the UEFA website says they were in Europa League last season:
http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/se ... p=2003988/