21 Dec 2011: Ajax - AZ

[Orange14]

O, and now amateurs from GVVV for the 1/4-finals. Can we play that game on an empty stadium
The whole "loting:

The way things are going for our club this season the following will happen:
1. KNVB will overrule all FIFA regulations on retaliation (already done)
2. KNVB will order a replay of the Ajax/AZ match from the beginning stating that AZ suffered irreparable damage by the hooligan assault
3. Ajax will have three players sent off on Red cards and have two goals disallowed on off sides but still only lose 1-2 in an empty Arena
4. Ajax supporters will be banned from traveling to AZ
5. Ajax take out all its collective fury on the men of Verbeek and win 6-0 away

[Manneken Pis]

Without getting into the incident itself, It's funny to think about 2011...

By mid year de Boer had taken over and turned us into Eredivisie Champions (the big Three O).

Then we get into the international press over three seperate things in six months;
1) Civil war breaks out between JC and the rest
2) We get screwed in the Champions League
3) And now this....

I'll be glad when we start a new year.....

[SPL]

Hope we can play the remaining 55 mins of the game and then be forced to play our next home cup game in an empty stadium. GVV in de Toekomst !!!

[acab]

No way to play this remaining 55 mins. That decision would be shameful for knvb. Dutch football will become a joke! I'm sure allmost evrybody outside Holland will be laughing. Unacceptable

[Van basten]

They cancelled red card for Esteban.

[Monkey Tonk]

Looking at the tape it is quite clear to me that the goalie purposefully kicks the guy only in the legs. If he had truly wanted to harm the guy he would have kicked him in the head. So, at least to me, that was quite a self-constrained display of self-defense. The goalie did good. He defended himself, and didn't injure the attacker. High marks from a perspective of martial arts.

To me it looks like for the second kick he is circling around trying to get at the head/body but the guy on the ground moves with him and blocks with his legs.

I think the first kick was an instinctive reaction but the second one is out of anger - it takes him a couple of seconds to wind it up and there is clearly no threat anymore.

I was trying to get into the goalie's head. Not quoted above. He's since said that he was indeed afraid that the guy had a weapon. Which makes perfect sense to me. I would consider that second kick not out of anger, but one for good measure. Not over the top in a situation like that. It's a way of -very fast- communication. It would have been different had he started to kick into the guy over and over, like a madman. People that read a lot into that second kick may confuse tight Hollywood editing with the reality of a fight. Fighting is, of course, an animalistic way of communicating. It's about dominance and territories. It contains instinctive elements. The kick for good measure is basically one of dominance; a 'show' of what the attacker can expect should he try that again. Jungle law.

Big difference between armchair refereeing something like this, and being in it. I've been in a situation where someone pulled a weapon on me. Things go very fast from there. (in my case I blocked his hand, took out the weapon, threw it away, then grabbed his kicking foot and twisted it so that he fell to the ground. I would describe my state of mind as a combination of astonishment and heightened awareness. I don't think I added a kick for good measure, but that attacker would have deserved it without a doubt). The whole idea that the fight stops when someone is on the ground is absurd. The fight we witnessed was in progress. The goalie was not focused on whether or not stewards were coming to his aid. His full attention was on his attacker. Someone declared war on him. Yet we want to see a nice reaction, something worthy of a fair play reward?

[orange goblin]

Yes, it's absurd. I witnessed it from myself just in Amsterdam, a few meters from me a black guy kicked the shit out of a drunk dutch man who was heavily, apparently with no reason, insulting him. He totally lost control, kickin' him in the face despite the fact the other was inermous on the ground.
it was terrible: I wonder how he is still alive.
This just to say that there are moments in which human nature becomes animal nature. and you cannot handle it.
This Esteban guy is understandable, and so was the red card for other reasons. Verbeek is the less undestandable of the three (I am not counting the poor idiot that made all this mess)

[ajaxusa]

In all my years of participating in Ajax discussions online, this has to be the most disheartening. How did we go from a place where intelligent footy fans dissect games and club decisions with insight and humor, to this? Very sad. AjaxTalk is becoming BigSoccer.

Strange comment, coming from a moderator. Something very serious happened at an Ajax game. There's nothing humorous about it.

There's the potential for humor in virtually anything, including this incident, most definitely. We used to be funnier, as a group.

Still, re-reading this thread, I have a hard time understanding my own comment. I think I just found the tone of the conversation - and the kind of accusations (racism, etc.) - depressing and uninspiring.

Plus, I was reading on my iPhone. And I had a hard day at work. And my dog ate my perspective.

[Orange14]

Plus, I was reading on my iPhone. And I had a hard day at work. And my dog ate my perspective.

That's what happens when you live in California for too long a period. I got out when I turned 23 as I felt my brain cells dissolving.

[ajaxusa]

That's what happens when you live in California for too long a period. I got out when I turned 23 as I felt my brain cells dissolving.

That may have been the copious amounts of high-quality Humboldt pot, rather than just California per se...

[zeux]

my dog ate my perspective.

Great quote!

[Orange14]

That's what happens when you live in California for too long a period. I got out when I turned 23 as I felt my brain cells dissolving.

That may have been the copious amounts of high-quality Humboldt pot, rather than just California per se...

Actually, that was the stuff that kept the brain cells alive!!!

[acab]

Did you hear about the knvb-decision? Now, this is outrageous! It's the dumbest decision, i ever heard! dutch football is going to the swamp. I don't think i'll watch Ajax soon. There is just no point

[zeux]

Did you hear about the knvb-decision? Now, this is outrageous! It's the dumbest decision, i ever heard! dutch football is going to the swamp. I don't think i'll watch Ajax soon. There is just no point

Welcome to the Mickey Mouse Competition.

[acab]

Like one said: Zo, nu weet ik wat ik moet als AJAX in een uitwedstrijd een keer achter staat: iemand € 50 geven en het veld op laten gaan. Dan beslist de KNVB overspelen en achtestand ongedaan maken. Hoe simpel kan het zijn!
Nice done knvb, very nice indeed!
AZ= Alkmaarse Zwendel

[Orange14]

This is a total joke, treating an angry kid (Verbeek) like he didn't do anything wrong. FdB should start a youth team against AZ in this replay and save the first team for the league match.

[souras84]

Crap decision again, I wonder who is afraid to make the right calls!!!!!!

[Kowalczyk]

That is one strange verdict from the KNVB...

K.

[SPL]

Crazy. Az not punished for walking off in dispute of a red .By walking off they conceded.

It did not surprise me they have ordered the whole game played again behind closed doors. I hope Ajax play at de Toekomst .

[SE6Ajacied]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16360934

6 months in prison part suspended for Wesley van W, otherwise known as the prick who ran on the pitch against AZ.

A bit odd though that the 2 year "banning order" (report to the Police during the game) only applies to Ajax Oranje and AZ games.......

[Philippe]

Six months jail seems really very heavy.

Not to mention the stupid decision about the game itself. So it seems that the AZ coach made a wise move. Food for thought.

I'm glad to read that the Ajax supporters association is suing the federation demanding refund for the game tickets.

[Kowalczyk]

Six months jail seems really very heavy.

It is, but we should take into consideration that he had a few 'conditional' verdicts from the past, so it's a bit of an accumulation, really.

K.

[Wie kent Cees de Wolf nog]

And he was convicted for another crime as well. That should also be taken into account.

[Philippe]

More nonsense : http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2 ... dren_o.php

[Kowalczyk]

Indeed, this is turning into the most surreal sketch Monty Python never wrote...

K.