20 Sep 2007: NK Dinamo Zagreb - Ajax

[Monkey Tonk]

Fucking hell... Every team in Europe (and yes, that includes Man Utd, Real Madrid and Inter) would be over the moon with a win at Dinamo Zagreb.

Why can't we?

K.

Because we're Ajax.

Take that as you see fit.

[Monkey Tonk]

I'm glad we're in the UEFA cup and not the CL. We have a realistic chance to win this thing. I'm not into competing for the sake of participating.

So this game is a good first step. Let's win this f*cking thing!

[Kowalczyk]

Because we're Ajax.

Exactly: we're Ajax. A club that crashed out of Europe at the hands of Lausanne Sports, Club Brugge, FC Copenhagen (2x) and Slavia Prague, can easily lose at Maccabi Tel-Aviv and is up for a 3-0 or 4-0 hammering at a German top side (Werder and Bayern, respectively). That's where we stand. That (and nothing else!) is the connotation of the name Ajax.

Indeed: we are Ajax - and are only more or less sure to advance if the opposition is as crap as IK Start or FC Thun.

The name 'Ajax' stands for a very modest European small-timer these days. And that's why this result is pretty bloody great. The best result in a European away game since Olympique Lyon (0-2) in late 2002.

I'm over the moon with this one. I really am. No-one gave us a chance, but we pulled it off. I really am one very, very happy Ajax fan.

K.

[jock cloggie]

check the results of some other 'big ' teams in tonights games and you will see that this was a very good away win.
we may not off played well but we got the win and that as Ko has said is a big improvement on past years
lets hope we dont screw it up at home.

[dws]

I actually give up on most Ajax supporters now - jesus christ we won 1-0 away from home in Europe and they are still not happy.

I'm happy

What do you want - to play like a team of world beaters every bloody game.

Yes please.

[jamcocteau]

Sorry can't quite let that go.....


Yes I'm happy with 0-1 away in Europe, didn't say the opposite, just think playing in the Camps League this year would have been a debacle.

I realise it's not reasonable to expect them to play like world beaters "every bloody game" but more than 2 out of 7 so far this season doesn't seem unreasonable.

I don't tend to come on here to rant, spread negativity and "put the boot in", and I realise our expectations need to be adjusted but we were very poor (my perception of the match I've just seen)..... sorry......

I can't call a fart a symphony just 'cause I'm a fan of the orchestra....maybe I'm just not as good a fan as you.

If I was referring to your post specifically i would have quoted you, which is my norm when replying to a specific post and in this case I did not do, so please do not take what I wrote personally, which I think you have done.

It is aimed at Ajax fans in general who I personally think are amongst the most fair weather fans I have come across in all my years watching football. Ajax fans in my opinion even when winning and doing so in style are never 100% behind the team, they always find something to moan about.

And this time I shall be specific to your original post and your original quote "A shower of shite tonight from Ajax", if that is you being happy with the result then sorry as a native English speaker then there is nothing positve in what you have written there.

And with regard to who is the biggest fan, jeez that makes me smile, sounds like playground stuff.

[jamcocteau]

And fuck me the only 3 registered on ajaxtalk at the moment are 3 jocks - jockcloggie, dws and me - must be a record

[dws]

And fuck me the only 3 registered on ajaxtalk at the moment are 3 jocks - jockcloggie, dws and me - must be a record

Wha's like us.

[jock cloggie]

as jocks we know how to make the most of a bad performace. we have been doing it for years

[dws]

as jocks we know how to make the most of a bad performace. we have been doing it for years

We collided big time with reality in 1978, and have remained humble ever since.

[SPL]

i do not think it matters how we played it was agreat result in a tough place.
Am I right in saying HTC was pleased with Van Der Weil and Maduro?

[aveslacker]

There's one Yank on here now! (But not for long.)

[Monkey Tonk]

Because we're Ajax.

Exactly: we're Ajax. A club that crashed out of Europe at the hands of Lausanne Sports, Club Brugge, FC Copenhagen (2x) and Slavia Prague, can easily lose at Maccabi Tel-Aviv and is up for a 3-0 or 4-0 hammering at a German top side (Werder and Bayern, respectively). That's where we stand. That (and nothing else!) is the connotation of the name Ajax.

Indeed: we are Ajax - and are only more or less sure to advance if the opposition is as crap as IK Start or FC Thun.

The name 'Ajax' stands for a very modest European small-timer these days. And that's why this result is pretty bloody great.
K.

Ajax is an idea. That means it doesn't have to be realistic. Weren't the best years of this legendary club born out of completely unrealistic ideas? Why not leave the realism to the worker bees in Rotterdam? We'll dream up the art part. Right off the bat, that means a lot of garbage seasons and an occasional masterpiece. A lot of seasons thrown away like pages straight from the printer to the trash can, all in search of a rare page of mesmerizing beauty. The moment we stop dreaming of a Utopian form of football, we stop being Ajax. The streamlined editions of 71-73 and 95-96 were almost a decade in the making; so the process of getting there is as important as reaping the sweet rewards.

Having said that, we do need to fight for a European salary cap (for those unfamiliar with this term, it is a limit to the total salary a club is permitted to pay to its players), because that is the only way we can keep our players long enough to complete the process of 'creating Ajax'. For the time being, I'm perfectly content playing in the UEFA cup, as a stepping stone towards a better edition of AJAX. But there is no way in the world that I will see an ugly season as separate from a process of building something greater. Ajax is the stubborn belief that something considered impossible by anyone with one ounce of realism is still possible. We've proven it. Not once, but twice. If you've lost that belief you need to ask yourself if you're still 'Ajax'.

[Kowalczyk]

The name 'Ajax' stands for a very modest European small-timer these days. And that's why this result is pretty bloody great.

And in addition to that: it's not only a great result for a European small-timer like Ajax, but it would have been a great result for Real Madrid, Man United or Inter, too. They surely would have embraced is like a great result. For sure.

A win in Croatia, at the reigning champions and current league leaders, who didn't drop a single point yet. That's pretty damn impressive.

K.

[LucaS]

Sad times are these when we (AJAX!) are proud of a performance so defensive that even Inter of the 70's would be too ashamed to play.

In other words, I completely agree with Monkey! Ajax isn't Ajax anymore

[Philippe]

a very good result, and a rather unexpected one, maybe the beginning of something

btw, thanks Stekelenburg, you're our best man

[raymon]

Sad times are these when we (AJAX!) are proud of a performance so defensive that even Inter of the 70's would be too ashamed to play.

In other words, I completely agree with Monkey! Ajax isn't Ajax anymore

Just have a quick look at the available players and I think it was an outstanding result.

Hopefully next time we can actually play some football!

[Philippe]

Just have a quick look at the available players and I think it was an outstanding result.

Hopefully next time we can actually play some football!

Quite right !

by the way, who said our defense was our weakness ...

[kraz11]

Very good result but as some of you said
isn't the way is as important as the result in a club like Ajax?
If ajax had created only 1 chance in the game isn't there something wrong?
It as easily could have been 2-0 to zagreb
But i'm optimistic couse if we qualify to the group stages which i believe we
can qualify from then we'll have Davids back and hopefully we'll buy the right players ( playmaker , defender) in January then there will be a possibility to make a great run in europe.

[Kowalczyk]

Match report is up!

http://www.ajax-usa.com/matches/m07-08/ ... agreb.html

K.

[bryan]

Sad times are these when we (AJAX!) are proud of a performance so defensive that even Inter of the 70's would be too ashamed to play.

In other words, I completely agree with Monkey! Ajax isn't Ajax anymore

Bah, I'm sure in the 70s Ajax themselves would have done exactly the same thing if they went to Zagreb, and played the attacking football at home.

The only difference was back then the fans didn't bitch as much, the media coverage wasn't as extensive and Cruyff wasn't a TV analyst yet.

Good result and well orchestrated by Ten Cate. If Ajax are stupid enough to get rid of him he can come and manage Ireland.

[LucaS]

You're wrong. In the 70's i followed Ajax intensively, and they didn't play with 8 defenders at any time. Not even when Ivic was head-coach!

[bryan]

But yesterday they played 4-4-2. That's not playing with 8 defenders...

[LucaS]

Ajax: Stekelenburg; Heitinga, Van der Wiel, Stam en Vermaelen; Ogararu, Gabri, Maduro en Emanuelson; Rommedahl (78. Suárez) en Huntelaar (84. Luque).


Your right, not all defenders. 6 defenders and two defensive midfielders

[gordonvandekamp]

by the way, who said our defense was our weakness ...

I have and still think it is, although it depends on who's playing and their roles. There was a clear defensive mindset going into this game (4 defenders and more defensive midfielders) and I think that made up for the earlier poor defensive performances, but I don't think it will work for every game, especially at the expensive of attacking football.

To compare, here's the defensive lineup from a few games this season:

Zagreb - Ogararu, Stam, Van der Wiel, Vermaelen; Gabri, Heitinga, Maduro, Emanuelson
Result: 1-0 Win, 4 defenders, not making a lot of offensive runs, 4 in the midfield providing defensive cover as well

Slavia - Colin, Stam, Vermaelen; Gabri, Heitinga, Suárez, Emanuelson
Result 0-1 Loss, 3 defenders (1 of them being Colin who I think is a weakness), and an attacking midfield

Groningen - Gabri, Stam, Vermaelen, Emanuelson; Maduro, Suárez, Heitinga
Result 2-2 Draw, 4 defenders (Gabri/Urby attacking), 3 attacking in midfield

I think there has to be a compromise found between the setup yesterday and the more normal formations/tactics to find true balance. That's the coach's job and hopefully ten Cate is a little less the remainder of the season.

I really think the starting back-line yesterday (Ogararu, Stam, Van der Wiel, Vermaelen) is the best defensively at the moment, but in an effort to find some balance and add the to the attack, I would like to see either Heitinga or Urby on one of the wings. I think that would be best for defensive stability and offensive support.