10 Feb 2008: Roda JC - Ajax

Philippe · Bericht door **Philippe** » ma feb 11, 2008 10:12 am

short sighted policy such as putting the blame on the coach and on no one else has led us where we stand today : nowhere

SPL · Bericht door **SPL** » ma feb 11, 2008 11:18 am

The big problem is that the players are overall not good enough.Of yesterdays starting eleven , only Suarez and Davids could have improved it.The other 19 first teamers who did not start,( subs , injured and not picked)would not have improved anything .

A complete clearout is needed.

Cedric · Bericht door **Cedric** » ma feb 11, 2008 12:19 pm

philippe schreef:short sighted policy such as putting the blame on the coach and on no one else has led us where we stand today : nowhere

I did not put all the blame on the coach (it would be as "short sighted" than to state that he is the only guy to keep), I only said that he should get better results with the team he has, even if it's not CL material. People above Koster have nothing to do with the fact that Ajax (with a whole bunch of international players - even if it's not top quality), couldn't beat NEC in two games, was destroyed by NAC twice, lost to Excelsior, and so on. I don't think than someone here can seriously say that those teams have better players than Ajax...

Over Pasanens Head · Bericht door **Over Pasanens Head** » ma feb 11, 2008 2:06 pm

Cedric_AeF schreef:
philippe schreef:short sighted policy such as putting the blame on the coach and on no one else has led us where we stand today : nowhere
I did not put all the blame on the coach (it would be as "short sighted" than to state that he is the only guy to keep), I only said that he should get better results with the team he has, even if it's not CL material. People above Koster have nothing to do with the fact that Ajax (with a whole bunch of international players - even if it's not top quality), couldn't beat NEC in two games, was destroyed by NAC twice, lost to Excelsior, and so on. I don't think than someone here can seriously say that those teams have better players than Ajax...

Just a guess but Philippe might still be referring back to Danny Blind

Philippe · Bericht door **Philippe** » ma feb 11, 2008 2:09 pm

HTC fans looking for revenge ? Poor Koster. He did not make much of the choices he has to do with. Not to mention Ajax' disastrous policy.

No matter what, I doubt anyone will save Jaakke's and Fontein's asses.

dws · Bericht door **dws** » ma feb 11, 2008 2:29 pm

philippe schreef:HTC fans looking for revenge ? Poor Koster. He did not make much of the choices he has to do with. Not to mention Ajax' disastrous policy.

No matter what, I doubt anyone will save Jaakke's and Fontein's asses.

I don't think there are many HTC fans on this forum. As for Koster, he has been a disaster.

bryan · Bericht door **bryan** » ma feb 11, 2008 3:32 pm

I'm not blaming Koster for anything, he can't be expected to work miracles.

I'm just saying that HtC did relatively well with he shitty group of players we have. Perhaps the vitriol aimed in his direction was unwarranted.

aveslacker · Bericht door **aveslacker** » ma feb 11, 2008 3:41 pm

bryan schreef:I'm not blaming Koster for anything, he can't be expected to work miracles.

I'm just saying that HtC did relatively well with he shitty group of players we have. Perhaps the vitriol aimed in his direction was unwarranted.

How has ten Cate done any differently than Koster? They both had teams within striking distance of the title, who had pretty good records against the top teams, but fucked it all up against mid- and bottom-table sides.

What's the difference?

Bericht door **Kowalczyk** » ma feb 11, 2008 3:47 pm

bryan schreef:I'm just saying that HtC did relatively well with he shitty group of players we have.

Well... I'd like to point out that HTC had Wesley Sneijder (18 goals) and Kenneth Perez as a stand-in. Koster had none of the two, for most of the time. HTC had Jaap Stam for 25 matches, paired with either John Heitinga or a fit Thomas Vermaelen. Koster had to work van Van der Wiel, Colin or Vertonghen (a midfielder). HTC had a superb Edgar Davids in the second half of the season; Koster had to do without him.

So I wouldn't wanna say it's the same squad HTC was working with.

Also, the current campaign (2007-2008) will be remembered as "Koster's season", but let's keep in mind that the Slavia Prague and Dinamo Zagreb disasters happened under Henk ten Cate.

I'm not saying that Koster is doing great, or something. But Henk ten Cate did have a much better squad last season - and (with the current squad) didn't exactly shine, either.

K.

Frans · Bericht door **Frans** » di feb 12, 2008 4:05 am

Kowalczyk schreef:
bryan schreef:I'm just saying that HtC did relatively well with he shitty group of players we have.
Well... I'd like to point out that HTC had Wesley Sneijder (18 goals) and Kenneth Perez as a stand-in. Koster had none of the two, for most of the time. HTC had Jaap Stam for 25 matches, paired with either John Heitinga or a fit Thomas Vermaelen. Koster had to work van Van der Wiel, Colin or Vertonghen (a midfielder). HTC had a superb Edgar Davids in the second half of the season; Koster had to do without him.

So I wouldn't wanna say it's the same squad HTC was working with.

Also, the current campaign (2007-2008) will be remembered as "Koster's season", but let's keep in mind that the Slavia Prague and Dinamo Zagreb disasters happened under Henk ten Cate.

I'm not saying that Koster is doing great, or something. But Henk ten Cate did have a much better squad last season - and (with the current squad) didn't exactly shine, either.

K.

Wasn't Ten Cate unbeaten in the league (and all domestic competition) this season, before he left?

Van basten · Bericht door **Van basten** » di feb 12, 2008 6:06 am

philippe schreef:1-I don't think we can lose the play-offs

Damn, i would like to have such a positive attitude

Philippe · Bericht door **Philippe** » di feb 12, 2008 10:19 am

just don't think any of the other sides could eliminate us

dws · Bericht door **dws** » di feb 12, 2008 10:34 am

Frans schreef:Wasn't Ten Cate unbeaten in the league (and all domestic competition) this season, before he left?

True. But in that period we played mainly against sides we would expect to overcome without too much difficulty. As for the so called better sides we played( AZ, Groningen and Heerenveen ), they were performing poorly.

Kozakken boys, anyone?

Frans · Bericht door **Frans** » di feb 12, 2008 9:56 pm

dws schreef:
Frans schreef:Wasn't Ten Cate unbeaten in the league (and all domestic competition) this season, before he left?
True. But in that period we played mainly against sides we would expect to overcome without too much difficulty. As for the so called better sides we played( AZ, Groningen and Heerenveen ), they were performing poorly.

Kozakken boys, anyone?

A win over PSV in the JC shield.
I don't see how winning against sides we should expect to beat easily is wrong. One could say we should expect to beat sides like Excelsior, VVV, NAC, NEC yet Koster hasn't managed that.

dws · Bericht door **dws** » di feb 12, 2008 10:13 pm

Frans schreef:
dws schreef:
Frans schreef:Wasn't Ten Cate unbeaten in the league (and all domestic competition) this season, before he left?
True. But in that period we played mainly against sides we would expect to overcome without too much difficulty. As for the so called better sides we played( AZ, Groningen and Heerenveen ), they were performing poorly.

Kozakken boys, anyone?
A win over PSV in the JC shield.
I don't see how winning against sides we should expect to beat easily is wrong. One could say we should expect to beat sides like Excelsior, VVV, NAC, NEC yet Koster hasn't managed that.

The JC shield is a meaningless bounce game.

And what is so wrong in highlighting the paucity in the quality of opposition faced in that unbeaten run? Especially since we flopped horribly in our attempts to overcome no more than moderate opponents in the Champions league and UEFA qualifiers.

One final note: HTC's Ajax missed out on the title primarily because of piss poor form in games against lesser lights such as Heracles, RKC, Excelsior, NEC and Sparta.

Frans · Bericht door **Frans** » di feb 12, 2008 10:32 pm

dws schreef:
Frans schreef:
dws schreef: True. But in that period we played mainly against sides we would expect to overcome without too much difficulty. As for the so called better sides we played( AZ, Groningen and Heerenveen ), they were performing poorly.

Kozakken boys, anyone?
A win over PSV in the JC shield.
I don't see how winning against sides we should expect to beat easily is wrong. One could say we should expect to beat sides like Excelsior, VVV, NAC, NEC yet Koster hasn't managed that.
The JC shield is a meaningless bounce game.

Last season Ajax missed out on the title primarily because of their piss poor form in games against lesser lights such as Heracles, RKC, Excelsior, NEC and Sparta.

Given that most people agree that coaches should be given time to build their team, and given that HtC's domestic record this season was quite good, I don't agree that he should have been sacked. One could say that the form against the so-called lesser lights was improving this year, until Koster took over.

Philippe · Bericht door **Philippe** » wo feb 13, 2008 11:07 am

Who cares about HTC ? He used Ajax as a stepping stone and is gone for good. He will be remembered as the man of humiliating disasters in European competitions.

The discussion about Koster is of little interest too, since he will not be coach next season anyway.

What matters more IMO is to choose our next coach early enough for him to pick his players before the end of this season.

dws · Bericht door **dws** » wo feb 13, 2008 12:41 pm

philippe schreef:
What matters more IMO is to choose our next coach early enough for him to pick his players before the end of this season.

Very much agree.

philipe, you need to make a slight adjustment to your let's keep Koster til the end of the season tag line.

May I suggest the words sack and before . :hupajax.gif:

Frans · Bericht door **Frans** » wo feb 13, 2008 12:50 pm

philippe schreef:Who cares about HTC ? He used Ajax as a stepping stone and is gone for good. He will be remembered as the man of humiliating disasters in European competitions.

I don't see how moving from assistant at Barcelona to assistant at Chelsea is in any way a step up. How then was Ajax a stepping stone? He left Ajax because he was hounded out by the fans.

Ten Cate was on at least a par with Koeman, Blind, and Koster. None of them did much good for the club, but whatever. I imagine that if Van Basten (or whoever) fails to win the league in their first season they'll be vilified by the fans and be gone 10 games into the next season, and the whole vicious cycle will continue.