The Big Euro 2008 Discussion

[Kowalczyk]

In any event, it's the best Dutch performance since... hm... Holland-Argentina?

That's what many people say: best Holland performance since Argentina in France '98.

But that's a bit exaggerated. Against Yugoslavija (Euro 2000 in Rotterdam) Holland played one of their best matches ever (6-1). I would say this was Holland's best performance since that one.

It's probably the biggest result since Argentina '98, though. I guess this one will actually be remembered as a bigger result than against Argentina in '98.

K.

[Jinne]

That depends on the follow up though. It's only the first game, although it feels like something like a semi.

[Van basten]

I consider that sort of thing payback for every time an opponent dives in the box to win a penalty or payback for legit goals that were ruled offside. It's just the football gods balancing things out in the end for those that play the game the way it should be played.

Yeah. Remember that 1-on-1 Van Nistelrooy had early in the game? Buffon touched him. Enough contact for a penalty, I thought. An Italian striker would have lied down, screaming and gesturing as if he'd broken both of his legs. Van Nistelrooy, however, stayed on his feet and did not get the penno (whereas I really thought he deserved one).
K.

I don't think that there was penalty, but yeah, 8 of 10 players would fall and cry for a penalty.

[Kowalczyk]

Sweden vs Greece is a really dull affair... Very boring.

K.

[aveslacker]

I think there is some vagueness because of the suggestion of intent in the words "... in order to...". The Italian defender was basically pushed off the field when he collided with his teammate. Do you think the defender stayed off the field in order to keep Van Nistelroy in an offside position? Does that matter? I think the refs got it right, but I can't be sure.

I think UEFA has decided to put the matter to rest by declaring the refs got it right. But I don't know if it's really that cut and dry.

In any event, it's the best Dutch performance since... hm... Holland-Argentina?

It's pretty clear to that Panucci is faking injury. The minute the Dutch score he gets up and walks back to the endline. So he was doing exactly what the interpretation of the law intended to guard against. Justice prevails.

[SE6Ajacied]

Sweden vs Greece is a really dull affair... Very boring.

K.

That's why I'm already on the computer (TV is next door). Nice of you to drop by and join me

[SE6Ajacied]

Charisteas was described in the first half by the ITV commentator as "honest as the day is long" but definately not a "goalscorer" Funny that, wasn't all of that apparent before we signed him..........

[SE6Ajacied]

1-0 Sweden. Great goal from Zlatan.......

[Kowalczyk]

Fantastic goal by Zlatan. What a shot.

The Swedes were definitely not great, but they deserved to win, because Greece were extremely, extremely negative (and very shit, too).

This was probably the worst game of the tournament so far. This one and Croatia vs Austria.

K.

[Monkey Tonk]

About Holland - Italy. Good game and result. Unfortunately, a tournament is not about one good game, but about a building process. With all the positive reactions after game 1, I think we can be fairly sure that Holland will not use this game to build on. I'm just hoping they don't think they're better than they really are now, because the defense looked very shaky at times, and not every team is going to blow chances or give away space in the back like Italy. (Italy, a notoriously slow starter, will use this game to build on).

We have the offense, and probably lack the defense, but the question is: do we have the resilience? You often hear people say that Germany wins tournaments, even with so-so teams, because of their discipline. But doesn't every team at this level have discipline? Germans never, ever give up. That's resilience. Holland so far has only shown they can play well when everything goes their way (something very familiar to Ajax fans in the past decade), but champions are teams that win when things don't go their way.

What did game 1 tell us about Oranje's chances? Precisely nothing. It was too easy. Holland needs to become battle-tested along the way. When things only go smooth, such as in 1974, they won't be ready to answer the call when it matters. In 1978 Holland came closer with a lesser team, because the team had become battle-tested in the course of the tournament. Similar in 1988. Those teams grew by overcoming adversity. So bring on the tough games! (I would qualify tough, resilience building games as matches against strong opponents in which you fall behind and/or need to score; so if you score the all important first goal it is not a tough game in this sense, unless the opponent takes the lead later on. From this perspective, a loss in the group stages may even be a positive! Holland lost to Scotland in 1978 and to the Soviets in 1988).

[DanK]

Fantastic goal by Zlatan. What a shot.

The Swedes were definitely not great, but they deserved to win, because Greece were extremely, extremely negative (and very shit, too).

This was probably the worst game of the tournament so far. This one and Croatia vs Austria.

K.

In a happy place, Greece should never be allowed to win a trophy the way they play. Its always disappointing when negative tactics win a tournament. At least Sweden tried to win the game, and thankfully did. Great goal by Zlatan. The guys a shithead, but still one of the best talents in world football. Love the guy.

The Austria - Croatia game wasn't too bad from where I was sitting (yeah agreed it wasn't the most entertaining in terms of actual football), but I was sitting at the foot of a ski jump with 10,000 Austrian, so at least the atmosphere was amazing. I am sure that helped make the game a little more entertaining than it actually was.

So after round 1, the best teams:
Spain, Holland, Portugal, Germany

Worst/Most Annoying:
Greece, Croatia

As is the case with most tournaments, round 2 will give a better indication. I wouldn't be surprised if France beat Holland, and Italy beat Romania quite comfortably.

Will also be interesting to see how many players lose an arm or leg during tonight's game with the Swiss and Turkey, or maybe they will wait until they head into the tunnel after the game again

[Kowalczyk]

Definitely true.

If Holland show the same team spirit, the same determination and the same passion against France as they did against Italy, they really might reach far. For now, it was only a very good first game. Nothing more, nothing less.

K.

[DanK]

In any event, it's the best Dutch performance since... hm... Holland-Argentina?

That's what many people say: best Holland performance since Argentina in France '98.

But that's a bit exaggerated. Against Yugoslavija (Euro 2000 in Rotterdam) Holland played one of their best matches ever (6-1). I would say this was Holland's best performance since that one.

It's probably the biggest result since Argentina '98, though. I guess this one will actually be remembered as a bigger result than against Argentina in '98.

K.

It's funny. I actually forgot about that 6-1 win. I think the semi final memories wiped Euro 2000 from my mind . But that was a wonderful performance. I remember that was another case after that game of 'We are already champions'. Lets remember that when we go into the France game.

I guess for me though the Argentina game will be the one I remember the most out of the two. Mainly it was a WC, and against Argentina and then of course there was THAT goal.

The other perfermance which actually sprang to mind as well was the 3-1 win against Germany in Gothenburg Euro '92. I remember how in a shambles that Dutch side made the German team look that day. I also remember a certain Marco van Basten hit one of the best volleys I can remember, which unluckily didn't go in and smashed off the cross bar.

No matter what happens for the remainder of the Euro's though, it was nice to see a superb performance against Italy.

[DanK]

...I loved the way Van Basten went nuts after the second goal (I've never seen him this fanatical; it was a bit like Jürgen Klinsmann two years ago). I loved pretty much everything about this match of football. Wow.

K.

It was nice to see wasn't it? No wonder with that second goal it was an absolute stunner. Fingers crossed we see MvB do much more of that for the remainder and of course for next season, and the season after etc

[ZoefdeHaas]

Spain 4-1 Russia, Hiddink not going with the best start.
But what a game for Villa. Spain will definitely build up on this, especially if they got the likes of Greece and Sweden next.

[DanK]

Croatia were very good against Germany last night. Much, much better than their first display against Austria.

[The Purple Cow]

I agree, Croatia looked very mobile and very sharp.

Germany have only one top-class defender in right back Lahm. Their goalkeeper is a basket-case, the two central defenders have the mobility of a wardrobe, and the left back (Janssen?) keeps getting lost and out of position. I may have to revise my pre-tournament prediction.

[JM]

KUYT 1-0!!!!!!!

[JM]

While the 1st 25 minutes put a smile on my face...France is making me nervous since. Van der Sar is certainly on his game.

[aveslacker]

While the 1st 25 minutes put a smile on my face...France is making me nervous since. Van der Sar is certainly on his game.

Not so much to worry about in the end.

[AjaxPDX]

4-1, full time.

Unbelievable!

Impressive wins over both Italy and France (the 2006 WC finalists, fergahdsake!). On a 7-to-effin'-1 goal difference. Qualified for the quarters. Flowing, attractive football playing the beautiful game quite beautifully. Van Basten pulling the strings and on his way to Ajax next.

What a great, great day.

[aveslacker]

All true, but the defense worries the shit out of me. Thank god for Van der Sar.

[carcajou]

Jesus. Fucking. Christ. Those Frenchies looked like boys. They had a few chances but overall you could feel how serene and dominant the Dutch were. Crazy stuff. I hope this is not all in vain, like it always happen with the Dutch, you know, lots of promises at first and then a big juicy fart around the semi-finals. Anyway, it was a great game.

[Van der Vaart]

Adieu Le Bleuz

[gordonvandekamp]

Agree, another good game. Should have been 4-0 though. The defending on Henry's goal was pretty horrendous. That will probably be the downfall in a close game. If the offense keeps playing that well, though, it may not be a problem.