Ajaxtalk

Didn't notice a post for this yet (I am sure Mr Ko will direct me if I am mistaken :xyxthumbs: ). Given Ajax's chance of finishing top are as good as Australia winning next years World Cup, looks like the playoffs are our chance of Champions League Football next season.

Can anyone in the know provide the details of this? Is it positions 2 > 7 and 2 play 7, 3 play 6, 4 play 5 etc?

Sorry if this one has been discussed elsewhere, but we will probably need this post in a few months anyway ;)

Even to the average Dutch football fan these play-offs are still a bit of mystery, but I this is how it works, roughly.

There will be two play-off groups: one group for number 2, 3, 4 and 5, and one group for number 6, 7, 8 and 9 (and, of course, the usual promotion/relegation play-offs).

In the first play-off group (#5 vs #2 and #4 vs #3, home and away) one berth in the Champions League qualifiers is at stake. The three other teams go to the UEFA Cup.

The second play-off group (#9 vs #6 and #8 vs #7, home and away) is about the last remaining UEFA Cup slot.

I think this is how it works...

K.

Kowalczyk schreef: In the first play-off group (#5 vs #2 and #4 vs #3, home and away) one berth in the Champions League qualifiers is at stake. The three other teams go to the UEFA Cup.
I think this is how it works...

K.

Sounds sort of reasonable. So would I assume that the 2 winners then play-off for the final champions league slot?

This sort of system is not unusual in Australia. Nearly all sporting leagues are decided by a finals play-off system. More money, more excitement etc, however the purists like myself still believe that the winner of the home and away season is the best team for the season, so in this regard at least this will still stand for the eredivisie (for now...)

DanK schreef:So would I assume that the 2 winners then play-off for the final champions league slot?

Precisely. #5 vs #2, and #4 vs #3 (home and away), then the winners against each other in the final (I believe once again home and away).

Coming to think of it... I think the system is a bit more complex than I wrote in my previous post. I think the losers also play each other for one UEFA Cup slot. The losers of the 'losers final' then have to play the winner of the second play-off group or something. In theory, I think, it is possible for the #2 in the league to not qualify for Europe at all.

Does anyone know how it will work exactly...?

This sort of system is not unusual in Australia. Nearly all sporting leagues are decided by a finals play-off system.

Same here. Football is almost the only league here in Holland that doesn;t have a play-off system. All other sports have it. On the other hand: the Dutch will be the first football league in Europe that works this way.

More money, more excitement etc, however the purists like myself still believe that the winner of the home and away season is the best team for the season, so in this regard at least this will still stand for the eredivisie (for now...)

More money: yes.

But more excitement? The play-offs themselves will be exciting, but the normal league will be less exciting. Look at last season, for example. The two by far most exciting games of the season for Ajax were AZ at home and Feyenoord away. We won both of them, so that we finished second after all and - much to everybody's surprise - qualified for the Champions League. The race between AZ, Feyenoord and Ajax had a real 'photo finish'. It was extremely tight and very exciting.

In the new system AZ vs Ajax and Feyenoord vs Ajax would have been of no importance, as all three teams were sure to finish between 2nd and 5th anyway. The play-offs basically murder the (normally exciting) last month of the season. The numbers 2 and 3 in the league will have nothing left to play for (except their starting slot in the play-off schedule).

I absolutely hate this system. It kills the whole principle of a league. If Ajax finish 5th they should not have the chance to steal - say - AZ's Champions League slot, if you ask me.

K.

Kowalczyk schreef: I absolutely hate this system. It kills the whole principle of a league. If Ajax finish 5th they should not have the chance to steal - say - AZ's Champions League slot, if you ask me.

You're still assuming AZ won't win the league...... ;)

I absolutely hate this system. It kills the whole principle of a league

I'm a big Rugby Union fan and love to watch the Super 12 competition, now to be Super 14, involving teams from New Zealand, Australia and South Africa. Super 12/14 has semi final play offs leading to a Final. The play off system is justified because teams play each other once only in an initial round robin tournament with the top 4 progressing to the Semi Final stage.
Further justifieing the play offs: some teams have 5/6 home fixtures whereas others have 6/7 home fixtures in the round robin tournament. In contrast, Eredivise teams play each other on a home and away basis; no team is disadavantaged by playing fewer home fixtures than any other team. It is ironic that the play off system, which somewhat rectifies the inherent unfairness of round robin tournaments, will introduce to Eredivisie an element of unfairness.

This playoff will save Ajax I think, so lets just see how it goes

Given the fact that the Eredivisie is on the verge of obtaining a third champion's league spot, would this terminate the play-off system ???? I sure hopre so ;) . I mean it would kill the purpose of the final match wouldent it ???
I have a feeling this play-off shit is going to be short lived :yes: .

The biggest surprise is that they introduce it in a World Cup year and also African Nations Cup year. I thought England was on its own with playing games over XMAS mind you over here we have a full round of games onDec 26th, 28th 30 th 2nd Jan , 7th Jan .

On the playoffs I do not agree with them for CL spot. As Ko said a team could finish 2nd in the league but might not even quaily for UEFA Cup if they lose all their playoff games.

I am sure that if Ajax win the playoff next May we will be cheering and drinking to the playoffs.

This is totally stupid, I agree with Ko, and the best recipe for empty stadiums.

philippe schreef:This is totally stupid, I agree with Ko, and the best recipe for empty stadiums.

I agree with the idea of you finish where you bloody well finish. Its funny though that the codes that have a finals system here get by far and away their biggest crowds for the season. Guess it depends on what you are brought up with. With my Euro heriatage, I am still a true believer in the home/away season. Full stop!

Let just wait and see. How sweet would it be if we finished below F*word, yet qualified for the Champions League and they had to play in the Uefa Cup? :D

I can't believe this is for real :nooo:

Totally agree that the Play-Off system is completely sh*t (We've had them in the English lower leagues for years and my team Blackpool have been in a fair few). While it's true to say that the play-offs themselves do preoduce some exciting games (two promotion finals won by the 'Pool spring to mind), it's also true to say that they totally ruin the end of the season and produce some very unfair final results - Blackpool in 95-96, and more famously Reading FC a few years back (not sure exactly). In the latter, Reading finished 2nd in the English second level in a year where only the champions went into the Premier League for some reason I've forgotton. They were challenging for the championship and promotion right up till the last week and finshed way clear of the team in third place. This meant that by the time they got to the final and played the fifth placed Bolton Wanderers (who had finished a comfortable fifth and so could afford to relax a bit in the last couple of league games), they were totally spent and lost to a team who had finshed 18 points behind them over the regular season.....all very unfair.....

All that being said, the Xmas period games are an institution in England and it's often the case that teams can really kick-start their season over this period with several games played over a short period. The footy also gets you out of the house away from all those relatives you never see and all that Turkey on the 26th - and gives the TV companies a chance to show something other than the Sound of Music or that old James Bond film....:D (The last bit may not translate to other families/countries though )

Good thing that the playoffs are there... Cause when I look at the table, it seems like we're going to need them to get to Champs'....

This was published on the Dutch-language version of Ajax.nl the other day...

Information play-offs 2005-2006

For the first time a number of Eredivisie clubs will play post-season play-off games after the end of the usual league. The exact lists of participants will be unknown until the very last Eredivisie matchday.

At the moment the two most likely scenarios are as follows:

1. If PSV win the Eredivisie championship Ajax will already be qualified for the UEFA Cup, because they are in the Gatorade Cup final against PSV. If Ajax finish 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th in the league, they will play at least one play-off round (of two legs). If they win that play-off round a second round will follow, in which a berth in the 3rd qualifying round of next season's UEFA Champions League will be at stake. If Ajax lose their first play-off round, they will not play another one. It is certain that Ajax will play two two-legged play-off rounds at the most. A third one is technically impossible, as Ajax are in the Gatorade Cup final against the league champions.

2. If PSV win the league championship and Ajax finish 6th, 7th, 8th or 9th in the Eredivisie, the Amsterdammers will play no play-off matches at all. In the play-off games between number 6, 7, 8 and 9 one UEFA Cup slot is at stake. If PSV win the title, however, UEFA Cup qualification will already be guaranteed for Ajax, which would make play-off games unnecessary.

There is a PDF file on the KNVB website in which the matches schedule for the play-offs is shown and updated based on the latest developments in the league:
http://files.datawire.nl/uploads/images ... 303pdf.pdf

Please note that, in the schedule, the abbreviation 'win' stands for winnaar or 'winners'. The abbreviation 'verl' stands for verliezer or 'losers'.

K.

any dates yet ?

The coming three matches will determine if we get a chance to save this season or not.

With Heerenveen put on the back burner after losing points at home last friday it looks like we need 7 points out of the next 3 matches to be, as good as, sure of the 5th position.

4. UTR 31 55
5. AJA 31 51
6. GRO 31 51
7. HEE 32 50
8. NEC 31 46

We can narrow it down to AJAX en Fc Groningen, although Heerenveen and NEC remain in the picture. A win against AZ will give us a lot of extra breathing room:

Ajax - AZ
Psv - Groningen

Ajax - Vitesse
Groningen - Utrecht

RKC Waalwijk - Ajax
FC Twente - Groningen

Which round of UEFA Cup will Ajax be automatically in?

The first. One normal round, then the group phase.

As for the remaining league games. We don't have an easy schedule, but Groningen's seems even tougher. Twente v Groningen is a grudge game. Twente will not roll over, even if they have nothing left to play for.

Will Groningen be able to spoil (postpone, actually...) PSV's championship party...?

K.

Don't think so. They might play it out for a point if the score is even after 70 or so minutes, but can't see them winning in Eindhoven. The boys from up North hardly picked up points on the road this season and PSV only lost 2 points at home. So I expect us to be in 5th place still after the weekend, no matter what the score will be against AZ (ok, only a huge loss will drop us to 6th).

Kowalczyk schreef: Will Groningen be able to spoil (postpone, actually...) PSV's championship party...?

K.

You've already given up on Ajax taking at least one point from AZ? :sad:

I'm still hoping for 9 points from our last 3 games - then, with our far better goal difference, we don't have to worry about anyone catching us... and we might even overtake Utrecht - that would make the season seem not so bad!

But if we lose today, I would say Heerenveen are the greater threat - they would be only 1 point behind, and will probably get more points from their last 2 games than Groningen.

What are the dates for the playoffs?

I know nobody likes them and it makes a mockery of a league but if Ajax win the playoffs will everyone here still be moaning ??

Well Blind will keep his job so I think I have answered myself !!!

Time for an update...

Play-offs for numbers 2, 3, 4 and 5

FIRST ROUND
A: FC Groningen - AZ 3-1
B: Ajax - Feyenoord 3-0

B: Feyenoord - Ajax 2-4
A: AZ - FC Groningen 2-1

SECOND ROUND
Ajax - FC Groningen (Wed 26 April, 20:15)
FC Groningen - Ajax (Wed 03 May, T.B.A.)

Feyenoord and AZ qualified for the UEFA Cup. Winners of Ajax vs FC Groningen qualifies for the 3rd preliminary round of the Champions League, losers qualify for the UEFA Cup.

Play-offs for number 6, 7, 8 and 9

FIRST ROUND
A: FC Twente - FC Utrecht 2-0
B: Roda JC - SC Heerenveen 0-0

B: SC Heerenveen - Roda JC (Wed 26 Apr, 20:00)
A: FC Utrecht - FC Twente (Wed 26 Apr, 20:00)

SECOND ROUND
Winners B - Winners A (Sun 30 Apr, 14:30)
Winners A - Winners B (Wed 03 May, 20:00)

Winners of the second round qualify for the UEFA Cup. Losers of the second round will move on to play the winners of the play-offs for numbers 10, 11, 12 and 13, for a berth in the Intertoto Cup.

Play-offs for numbers 10, 11, 12 and 13

FIRST ROUND
A: Heracles Almelo - NEC 0-2
B: RKC Waalwijk - Vitesse 4-4

A: NEC - Heracles Almelo 2-3
B: Vitesse - RKC Waalwijk 2-0

SECOND ROUND
Vitesse - NEC (Wed 26 Apr, 20:00)
NEC - Vitesse (Wed 03 May, 20:00)

Winners of the second round move on to play the losers of the second round of the play-offs for number 6, 7, 8 and 9, for one slot in the Intertoto Cup.

Promotion/relegation play-offs

FIRST ROUND
A: FC Zwolle - FC Haarlem 1-1
B: TOP Oss - AGOVV Apeldoorn 3-0

A: FC Haarlem - FC Zwolle 1-3
B: AGOVV Apeldoorn - TOP Oss 0-2

SECOND ROUND ('best of three')
C: FC Zwolle - Willem II 2-4
D: De Graafschap - VVV-Venlo 1-1
E: Helmond Sport - FC Volendam 0-1
F: TOP Oss - NAC Breda 0-0

C: Willem II - FC Zwolle 6-2
D: VVV-Venlo - De Graafschap 2-4
E: FC Volendam - Helmond Sport 2-3
F: NAC Breda - TOP Oss 2-2

'Decisive games on 28 April:
E: Helmond Sport - FC Volendam
F: TOP Oss - NAC Breda

THIRD ROUND ('best of three', games on 05, 08 and - if necessary - 12 May)
Willem II - De Graafschap
Volendam/Helmond - NAC/TOP Oss

Winners of the third round confrontations will play in the Eredivisie next season.

Note that Volendam and NAC Breda are not out on away goals. The promotion/relegation play-offs are 'best of three': away goals do not count for two. These teams will play third and decisive games on 28 April.

K.