Amsterdam & The Netherlands Tourist Info

[Kowalczyk]

In my pretty cool and snobistic (...) opinion Amsterdam is an overrated, poluted tourist trap.

I should have known: you walked from Central Station, along Damrak, to Rembrandtplein and then back through Kalverstraat. If that's all that I knew, I would hate Amsterdam as well.

K.

[Eric*]

Hardly, I lived there for nearly 7 years.

[Kowalczyk]

In that case I honestly can't believe you really mean it. If you do mean it: oh well, whatever. No matter how great a city is, you'll always find a few people who hate it. Doesn't change anything for anyone. Fair enough.

K.

[DanK]

Amsterdam - Gotta love it...and there that's my 100th post. Cheers for me. :cheer:

[SE6Ajacied]

Well I love Amsterdam too - been here since Wednesday, sadly going home next Thursday - I enjoyed Zwolle, Kampen, Arnhem, Den Bosch, Leiden etc etc too but Amsterdam (and Alkmaar another favourite) is the only one I return to all the time. :cheer:

Confession time, I even quite liked Rotterdam...

[Manneken Pis]

I love Amsterdam, not so much for the attractions there but more for the general buzz of the place. There's a 'vibe' there that strikes me whenever I get there....an energy that's great. It reminds me of Madrid and Barcalona.....and strangely enough Antwerp. It's different from London/Paris/NYC which have a sense of grandiousness, or places like Brussels which just feel stately and sleepy.

[bluedaddy19]

i can never understand hatred for amsterdam - i've been living here for going on two years, and sometimes i still can't believe i'm lucky enough to live here - sometimes, when i'm walking around town, i am nearly moved enough to shed a tear - this specialness of this place goes beyond cool things to do, beyond having marvelous cheap KB and doner kebap, beyond sporadic filth and constant construction, beyond an agreeable climate and appearance - i feel the spirit of amsterdam every single day, and i also appreciate how that spirit has evolved and how long it has remained intact - i love this town with no shame in my game, proudly and boldly

OK... now that i got that out, i'll give a few must-eat options for roche

best pancakes: pancake bakery, a couple blocks from anne frank house on prinsengracht

best doner: in de pijp at about 140-something van woustraat - open M to Sa til 8ish, the bread makes the difference here

best indonesian dinner (so far, i'm in the process of trying every single place in town): sukabumi, walk down the flower row from muntplein and turn the first left, it's on your right

best indonesian lunch: sampurna, 498 singel facing the flower stands running from muntplein

best fries: take your pick

best bakery: take your pick

best ice cream: kwekkeboom, next to the theatre between muntplein and rembrandtplein

best hamburger: don't bother, get a broodje warme vlees from one of the 3 billion eetcafes instead

other than that, do your drinking away from the dam square area!!! you will pay three times as much for your drinks with much less dutch atmosphere to enjoy

it also wouldn't be the worst idea for someone visiting for the first time to come around queen's day (or next may, when we raise the silver at leidesplein :xyxthumbs: )

[bryan]

Yep, Paris, Barcelona and Berlin as well. But we're talking about the Netherlands right now...

Perhaps I was being a little too subtle.

[Kowalczyk]

Do you think so?

The smiley behind the post of Louis XIV tells the whole story, I guess. You weren't being subtle. Quite on the contrary. Your post was a pretty obvious and rather lame 'Holland is shit' statement. Some expat friends of mine told me that this is also very much in fashion on Expatica at the moment (never checked it, though). Louis XIV just refused to take the bait because it was so obvious - and went back on topic instead. Maybe he was being subtle.

K.

[bryan]

It was meant as humour, not as "holland is shit". I'm sorry you took it that way.

[Kowalczyk]

In that case you were actually being too subtle and I misunderstood it completely. My apologies for that.

:xyxthumbs:

K.

[bryan]

I was never good at jokes.

[bryan]

Interesting that you mentioned Expatica, I have read some of the discussion on there. While much of it is hysterical, some (few) of the points on there are valid.

I think the biggest problem people have when they come to Holland is dealing with the disappointment. They build Holland up in their heads to be some kind of liberal and tolerant beacon for world civilisation (a fabrication that has been propagated by the Dutch media), but when they come here they realise that the country is just as good, or bad, as any other western European country. Being foreigners for the first time also means that many of these expats are exposed to the more racist elements of mankind for the first time, so they tend to associate this with Holland rather than world society in general.

[SE6Ajacied]

Not strictly tourist info I know but it fits nicely into the discussion we're having here......As I'm trying badly to learn Dutch and pick up an all round Dutch experience etc I always look out for Dutch films (not that sort :D ) that have English subtitles - There aren't many to chose from, even in Holland but I have a few. I managed to pick up a fairly new title for only 4.99 Euro's at Schipol yesterday "Oesters Van Nam Kee". Set in Amsterdam and the main characters are Ajax fans. On a slightly different subject, I'm amazed this is a "12" certificate in Holland - would be an 18 here at home but a good film anyway.

Going back more on topic, can also recommend Groningen, lots of good bars, two large Markt squares and I got mistaken for a football scout when I went to Groningens Ooosterpart stadium - got a free book and almost tickets for the game played that night but couldn't go anyway. Groningen was a hit with my Girlfriend as well and she now wants to move there :dontgetit:

[bryan]

Groningen is cool. Kind of detached from the "drukte" in the Randstad and doing it's own thing.

[Kowalczyk]

Groningen is cool. Kind of detached from the "drukte" in the Randstad and doing it's own thing.

Groningen is great place. I go there quite regularly and I always like it. Groningen has a very pleasant 'left wing' feel to it: the attitude is no-nonsense, progressive and alternative. They also have a great music scene. The Vera club is the best place in Holland for punk, garage rock and what have you (the louder, more edgy stuff). It's also a pretty town and, last but not least, one of the very few towns in Holland with a 'free closing times' policy: pubs are open until six or seven in the morning and some of them will stay open 24/7 as long as there are enough people.

There are plenty of reasons to love the place and the locals are very proud of it. They are likely to mention the above things if you chat with them about their city for longer than... three seconds. ;)

However, just to put things in perspective...

Groningen has a very big university and for that 50% or more of the population are students. Nothing wrong with those folks, but they don't have a lot of money to spend and you the average pub or restaurant in Groningen reflects that: it's all very, very low-key and basic. There are plenty of atmospheric 'brown pubs', as we call them in Holland, but if you're looking for something special (a trendy design bar, an exclusive vodka bar, you name it) you will find that the range of pubs is very limited indeed in Groningen and that a down-to-earth 'let's all be normal' attitude does not stimulate the diversity of things (to put it diplomatically).

When it comes to food this is even more obvious. There are gazillions of what we know as eetcafés ('eat cafés'), places that serve typical Dutch student meals: a plate with a simple salad, a huge heap of French fries and a piece of meat/fish. It fills you up, it tastes alright, it's cheap and in many cases they have ridiculously cheap 'dishes of the day', but don't bother to look for anything fancy or special in Groningen, cos it's simply not there.

Summary: Groningen is a great place for nightlife, but there really is only one type of nightlife. No frills and not too much imagination. Great for students; terribly and universally boring for (let's say) a single 38 year-old expat who with a good income, who's looking for a trendy place to meet his peers.

That's the key difference with a place like Amsterdam. The diversity of Amsterdam is a million times bigger than it is in places like Groningen. Nothing wrong with students, but their imagination is almost as limited as their budget. They want to eat a cheap steak and then drink ten gallons of beer at a pub where they play either middle of the road rock music or tacky sing-along Dutch stuff (for cult reasons) - and that's about it. When it comes to eating and drinking there is hardly anything innovative or exclusive in Groningen, simply because the folks that dominate the nightlife can't afford it and are almost exclusively under-25.

Hull and Newcastle may be very nice places and have a nice list of things that makes 'em more friendly and more easily accessible than London, but when it all comes down to it there is no comparison, to be honest.

K.

[bryan]

Nothing wrong with students, but their imagination is almost as limited as their budget. They want to eat a cheap steak and then drink ten gallons of beer at a pub where they play either middle of the road rock music or tacky sing-along Dutch stuff (for cult reasons) - and that's about it.

Hey! I'm a student and I'm not like that! But I know what you mean, 90% of my fellow students are just like that. They don't understand that cheap does not equal crap. Well, they don't understand much to be honest, they just join a student union (i.e. beer union) and take their style cues from the older kids, and then pass it on to the next generation when they get older.

So yeah, I guess Groningen is good for a few nights out, but not to live.

[Kowalczyk]

It's an interesting difference with Maastricht.

Maastricht is even smaller than Groningen and also has a university, so the nightlife is pretty 'studenty' also. But the locals/natives are very different: Groningen (in the 'far north') has a very down-to-earth, no frill lifestyle and my personal impression is that the natives are not really interested in fancy restaurants.

Maastricht is in the 'deep south': close to Belgium (and France, for that matter). And you can tell the difference: they have more of an exuberant, 'Burgundian' lifestyle there. That town has some absolutely great restaurants. Me and my mates went there last season, the night before the Roda away game. We had dinner in a fantastic, pretty fancy restaurant and went on a pub-crawl after that. That does the trick for me: two completely different atmospheres on one night. When out in Groningen it's sometimes a bit hard to get away from the 'studenty' pub atmosphere, if you know what I mean, as most of the restaurants serve the culinary equivalent of a pint of lager over there. :D

K.

[bryan]

When out in Groningen it's sometimes a bit hard to get away from the 'studenty' pub atmosphere, if you know what I mean

I know what you mean - shiteholes like De Gieter.

[Kowalczyk]

Now that the Ajax USA trip is coming closer and closer, it might be interesting to move this thread back to the top of the page...

K.

[DanK]

Now that the Ajax USA trip is coming closer and closer, it might be interesting to move this thread back to the top of the page...

K.

I have been lucky enough to have been to Amsterdam 3 times before I go again in April. I can't wait. In the past I have only spent a day or two in around the city, this time I plan to spend 7 full days living and breathing (no jokes about pollution please) Amsterdam. Learn its ins and outs etc.

I have always felt Amsterdam is initially overwhelming, but after a day or so of getting used to the hustle and bustle you can't help but falling in love with the place.

[Kowalczyk]

I have always felt Amsterdam is initially overwhelming, but after a day or so of getting used to the hustle and bustle you can't help but falling in love with the place.

I see what you mean. If you compare Amsterdam to European capitals of more or less similar size (Stockholm, Brussels, Copenhagen, Dublin, Vienna), or to large cities in southern Europe (Rome, Barcelona, Madrid), Amsterdam will initally strike you as chaotic and downright sleazy. If you walk out of Central Station and stay on the main 'tourist trail' (down Damrak and Rokin, via Dam Square, to the large squares, Rembrandtplein and Leidseplein) you will find it dirty, overwhelmingly busy and not very special. Unfriendly staff, rude locals on bikes, people who simply throw their rubbish down and (as a result of that) way to many pissed up tourists thinking that there is no law in Holland and that pretty much everything goes.

If you want to feel what Amsterdam really is like, take your time to walk along the canal district: the three big circular ones, but also the tiny ones that connect them. Over there you'll see how overwhelmingly beautiful Amsterdam can be. And the unique thing is: how many cities are there where the most interesting parts of the city centre are also the most quiet...? (for some reason it's never too busy in the 'canal ring').

If you really want to feel what Amsterdam is like, go for a beer at Nieuwmarkt (rather than Leidseplein), go shopping in the 'Nine Little Streets' of the west part of the canal ring (rather than in Kalverstraat), watch colourful people doing their thing in Vondelpark or Museumplein and - if you have time - explore the pub life in the neighbourhoods just outside the actual centre, in the Jordaan, De Pijp and Old West areas.

That's where you'll find the beauty and the open-minded, laid back atmosphere the city is famous for.

Don't forget, though: the sleaziness is a part of Amsterdam's identity that's quite beautiful in itself. You have to learn to see the beauty of it. The Red Light District at night is actually great, with all its nutters, drunks, junkies and English bachelor parties. Amsterdam is a schizophrenic place: the most beautiful parts of town are very quiet, almost like an open air museum, but the city's also got a very rough edge to it.

If you take the time to get to know the place, you'll find that Amsterdam is a small place with the aura of a big city. It's busier, sleazier, edgier and most definitely more lively and 'international' than most capitals of similar size.

Okay - so much for my ode to Amsterdam. Now I'll revert to what Amsterdammers always do: moan about everything they dislike about their city and tell everyone what a shithole it is and that the whole town is going to the dogs. :D

K.

[Feest]

You forgot the beautiful Oud-Zuid area, Ko.

Oh, and I do still think Amsterdam needs more trendy hi-end bars. Those are few and far between.

[SE6Ajacied]

You forgot the beautiful Oud-Zuid area, Ko.

Oh, and I do still think Amsterdam needs more trendy hi-end bars. Those are few and far between.

That's cool if you live in Amsterdam, but the tourists (including frequent visitors like me) usually come the authentic style "brown cafes". I have a few favourite bars in Amsterdam, can't remember all the names/postal addresses but I do know where they all are.........

[jamcocteau]

Have to say find these comments interesting, especially as an expat living in Amsterdam.

Regarding the hi-tech bar and brown cafe bar situation, one of the things I love about the place actually is the lack of Hi-Tech bars. I lived in London which is full of them and have to say I hated them. They are bars full of the most mind numbingly boring people you could ever wish to lay eyes on - people who are more interested in what they and others are wearing, trying to be trendy and interesting when they are in the main air-heads who are in general only interested in money, house prices and whos idea of fashion in clothes, music, films etc will come from a magazine without having the imagination to find out for themselves about the subject. In Amsterdam, I would term places like the Mansion (hideously horrible), Jimmy Woos etc as types of these bars but each to their own as they say. I love the Brown cafes myself and one of the main reasons is in general the lack of toursists frequenting them and you actually get to meet the locals.

I have a love-hate relationship with Amsterdam I have to say but this is because I can be a moody greetin faced Scotsman at times :D so will never find utopia anywhere. But as Ko said one of the most amazing things about Amsterdam is that if you leave the busy places like the Kalverstraat, Leidseplein etc and walk about 200m it is like being on another planet - quiet canals, surrounded by some amazing houses, in some case downright strange house, lovely wee cafes and a totally chilled out atmosphere.