'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

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bryan
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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door bryan » di feb 07, 2012 8:39 pm

Barca can just about service the interests on their debts because of the massive amount of TV money they bring in. The Spanish TV rights are grossly unfair, rigged to the benefit of Real and Barca. The Classicos are a huge money spinner for the two clubs.

If Ajax had 500 million euros debt the club would be closed down for sure, because wouldn't be able to service the interest on such debts.

The reason Barcelona is better than Ajax is because of money. I'm fed up of hearing it's because of Cruijff's Barca revolution.

Sure, Cruijff introduced the Ajax philosophy to Barcelona. But where did he get the Ajax philosophy from? From Ajax of course. Ajax already know how to run a youth setup, thank you very much. It trained you, Mr. Cruijff, remember?

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Orange14
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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door Orange14 » di feb 07, 2012 9:25 pm

bryan schreef:Barca can just about service the interests on their debts because of the massive amount of TV money they bring in. The Spanish TV rights are grossly unfair, rigged to the benefit of Real and Barca. The Classicos are a huge money spinner for the two clubs.

If Ajax had 500 million euros debt the club would be closed down for sure, because wouldn't be able to service the interest on such debts.

The reason Barcelona is better than Ajax is because of money. I'm fed up of hearing it's because of Cruijff's Barca revolution.

Sure, Cruijff introduced the Ajax philosophy to Barcelona. But where did he get the Ajax philosophy from? From Ajax of course. Ajax already know how to run a youth setup, thank you very much. It trained you, Mr. Cruijff, remember?
Things will be changing in Spain because the other teams in La Liga are getting fed up with the lack of TV revenue. It just happened in Italy and will soon happen in Spain as well. You cannot have a league with two teams and the other 18 won't put up with this. It's also not just about the money at Barca but the development of players within their system (a lot of other teams have lots of money but don't do as well in major competitions). Of all the big clubs they rely the most on home grown talent. In part this is a result of Cruyff's work.
Appie Nouri will forever be remembered for his grace and humanity on and off the pitch!

acab
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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door acab » wo feb 08, 2012 12:28 am

bryan schreef:Well yes, he does know the reality, but his number one goal here is not to fix Ajax but to get his friends into jobs at Ajax and to piss off Louis van Gaal.

It's all politics. Politicians also tell us bullshit stories about how they are going to fix everything. We know that is just so that they can get our vote.

As with any form of politics, propaganda is required, and Cruijff is the master of it.

One thing is sure, if the difference between Barca and Ajax in terms of money was as massive in the 1970s as it is now, and the transfer markets as open as they are now, then Johan Cruijff would have been playing football in Barcelona in 1969 already.

He always skirts around the money issue when asked, saying things like, "you gotta be smart", an answer you'd expect from a politician. He also claims that Ajax was poor in the 1970s too. But this is not true. Ajax was a big club in a big city in the days before satellite TV money. We bought Velibor Vasovic from Red Star. Red Star was a European Cup finalist and Vasovic was their captain and talisman. Do you see the current Ajax buying one of the top players from a European Cup finalist? Do you see this happening? Of course not.

To be honest, I don't know to be more annoyed at Cruijff or the Dutch media for never pressing him in interviews.
Well, Vasovic was not in Red Star, but Partizan. If some serbian see you post, you'll have problems :)))) just jocking. Your comparison is not correck. You are analyzing past events from modern poit of view, witch is allways wrong.
Back in the 70's the situation in eastern countries was a little bit different, trust me. And here something i bet you don't know - Vasovic had some politycal problems back then. AND he was impressed of Mickels. So - two good reasons, besides money for him to come to Amsterdam. So very,very bad example. No hard feelings :) And i really don't understand you hate for Cruyff. Why?

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bryan
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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door bryan » wo feb 08, 2012 1:29 am

Yes, Partizan, but the point stands.

Of course the 70s were different. This is exactly the point I am trying to make. Back then Ajax could get their hand on a player like that. Now they can't.

Yes we should view Ajax in the context of modern football. It is Cruijff who refuses to do this. He seriously thinks that we can compete with Barcelona. He is the one with his head stuck in the past, not me.

The highest salary at Ajax is 1.8 million euros per year - and Ajax can't really afford it.
The highest salary at Barcelona is 33 million euros per year.

Where would Vasovic go today? You tell me.

Would the Cruijff of today still be at Ajax aged 26? You tell me.

Ajax has one of the best youth systems in the world. We could improve it a bit. The best players are still going to leave at a young age.

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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door Tom_ » wo feb 08, 2012 8:27 am

I don't know where I come down on the Cruijff vs. van Gaal thing. I mean, I haven't really been around long enough to experience Cruijff's contribution to the club, and some of his behaviour certainly seems childish and unhelpful to me. On the other hand, I can remember the successes of the 'van Gaal era' very clearly.

Who is the better for Ajax? I have no idea, but either way we need to stop talking about European success as though it's something either can bring back. Just forget Europe for now. We certainly cannot compete with Barcelona or Real. But we have NO EXCUSE for not being competitive in the Eredivisie. Budget, youth system, etc.—if anything we are the best placed of Dutch teams. We have not done consistently well in the league for almost a decade, and I would like to see whoever comes out of this ridiculous situation in charge to focus on taking us back to the top in the Netherlands.

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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door Orange14 » wo feb 08, 2012 2:20 pm

I have never seen where JC states that Ajax can compete with Barca. He also has never indicated that he wants to get involved in the financial running of the club which is a totally separate endeavor compared to running the football operation and this was what the Coronel report clearly pointed out. I don't think Cruyff has stated anywhere that he is opposed to that. Of all the clubs in The Netherlands, Ajax have the best brand from an international perspective. Sure it is never going to be as big as Barca, ManU, Bayern, Madrid, etc but it is significant. When Ajax came to Washington DC last spring for a friendly following the league season there was a significant turnout of Ajax fans to see the match. Certainly the section that I was sitting in almost everyone was wearing an Ajax kit. I doubt that any other Dutch club would have attracted as many supporters to such a friendly.
Appie Nouri will forever be remembered for his grace and humanity on and off the pitch!

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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door bryan » do feb 09, 2012 10:27 pm

Ajax also have a much bigger brand than Sunderland, but Sunderland have a much bigger budget by virtue of being in the Premier League.

I'm afraid it's all about the benjamins nowadays.

There's nothing Cruijff will do that somebody hasn't thought of yet. He's not that special, really.

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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door Orange14 » do feb 09, 2012 10:44 pm

bryan schreef:Ajax also have a much bigger brand than Sunderland, but Sunderland have a much bigger budget by virtue of being in the Premier League.
Every EPL team starts off with €75M in the bank because of the television revenues. EPL football is the biggest brand in the world in this regard (not saying that it is the best). Nothing Cruyff or anyone else in The Netherlands can do to overcome this advantage. I think Ajax have more ticket sales per game than any other team in the EPL except for ManU and Arsenal by virtue of the size of the Arena. They probably have a higher match day income than at least half the EPL teams because of this.
Appie Nouri will forever be remembered for his grace and humanity on and off the pitch!

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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door Philippe » vr feb 10, 2012 11:15 am

All this soap legal case makes think of the 90's rock band "They eat their own".
Appie, stay strong !

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bryan
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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door bryan » vr feb 10, 2012 6:00 pm

Orange14 schreef:
bryan schreef:Ajax also have a much bigger brand than Sunderland, but Sunderland have a much bigger budget by virtue of being in the Premier League.
Every EPL team starts off with €75M in the bank because of the television revenues. EPL football is the biggest brand in the world in this regard (not saying that it is the best). Nothing Cruyff or anyone else in The Netherlands can do to overcome this advantage. I think Ajax have more ticket sales per game than any other team in the EPL except for ManU and Arsenal by virtue of the size of the Arena. They probably have a higher match day income than at least half the EPL teams because of this.
I doubt that very much, Premier League tickets are not cheap.

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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door Orange14 » vr feb 10, 2012 6:10 pm

bryan schreef:
Orange14 schreef:
bryan schreef:Ajax also have a much bigger brand than Sunderland, but Sunderland have a much bigger budget by virtue of being in the Premier League.
Every EPL team starts off with €75M in the bank because of the television revenues. EPL football is the biggest brand in the world in this regard (not saying that it is the best). Nothing Cruyff or anyone else in The Netherlands can do to overcome this advantage. I think Ajax have more ticket sales per game than any other team in the EPL except for ManU and Arsenal by virtue of the size of the Arena. They probably have a higher match day income than at least half the EPL teams because of this.
I doubt that very much, Premier League tickets are not cheap.
It's hard getting at this number since teams report match day income on their balance sheet as a single number and that will of course include cup and Europe competition as well so you really cannot get the league numbers easily. In addition, EPL teams have two cup competitions (Carling & FA) and play four extra league matches as well. One could extrapolate the numbers by looking at the league match ticket prices for Ajax vs a typical EPL team but I'm too lazy to do that. Perhaps some of our English correspondents might post how much league match tickets cost to see if they are much more than Ajax ones.

This year's Deloitte Football Money League report is now available http://www.deloitte.com/view/en_GB/uk/i ... /index.htm. Ajax are just outside the top twenty with revenues of €97.1M.
Appie Nouri will forever be remembered for his grace and humanity on and off the pitch!

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SE6Ajacied
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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door SE6Ajacied » vr feb 10, 2012 7:40 pm

Orange14 schreef:
bryan schreef:Ajax also have a much bigger brand than Sunderland, but Sunderland have a much bigger budget by virtue of being in the Premier League.
I'm sure Bryan's right on this. I haven't been to Ajax for a while but when I did go tickets were MUCH cheaper than even 2nd level football here let alone the Premier league.

A few years back as I remember speaking to an English Ajax season ticket holder too (he posts here - back me up please :hypocrite.gif: ) who had a season ticket for level 6/7 in England and also Ajax and there was a few pounds difference between them. I think the gap has likely widened at the top level at least.
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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door DrDuncan » vr feb 10, 2012 7:51 pm

Orange14 schreef:Perhaps some of our English correspondents might post how much league match tickets cost to see if they are much more than Ajax ones.
When I bought my first season ticket for the Arena in 2006 it was cheaper to fly to Amsterdam to see a game, and get my nicotine supplies at Schiphol, than to buy a Liverpool or Everton season ticket, catch the bus across town to Anfield or Goodison, and get my fags from the corner shop.

Sadly no longer true because of the hike in air fares. But Ajax’s prices this season were still only 25 to 30% of Liverpool’s.

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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door saddlerian » vr feb 10, 2012 8:01 pm

SE6Ajacied schreef:
Orange14 schreef:
bryan schreef:Ajax also have a much bigger brand than Sunderland, but Sunderland have a much bigger budget by virtue of being in the Premier League.
I'm sure Bryan's right on this. I haven't been to Ajax for a while but when I did go tickets were MUCH cheaper than even 2nd level football here let alone the Premier league.

A few years back as I remember speaking to an English Ajax season ticket holder too (he posts here - back me up please :hypocrite.gif: ) who had a season ticket for level 6/7 in England and also Ajax and there was a few pounds difference between them. I think the gap has likely widened at the top level at least.
:ajax.gif: :ajax.gif: :ajax.gif:

I'll back you up on this one!!! My season card at Ajax is only a few pounds more than a season ticket to watch many English BSP League matches, in effect, league 5. I used to have a season ticket to watch Walsall, but this was knocked on the head as it became much to expensive.....my Ajax card works out at €25 a match, if I manage to get to 11 games.....I very much doubt if I could get a ticket to either Premier League of Championship for anywhere near this!!!!....(NOT THAT I WOULD WANT TO!!!!!) :biggrin.gif:

:ajaxscarf.gif: :ajaxscarf.gif: :ajaxscarf.gif:
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bryan
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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door bryan » za feb 11, 2012 5:02 pm

This year's Deloitte Football Money League report is now available http://www.deloitte.com/view/en_GB/uk/i ... /index.htm. Ajax are just outside the top twenty with revenues of €97.1M.
This was really a one-off for Ajax as it includes some big outgoing transfers.

Deloitte say they exclude transfer fees from their revenue estimations, as these do not reflect the true day to day income of the club. Then they quote 97.1 million euro as Ajax's revenue. That figure includes the Suarez transfer, you can look it up on the Ajax website.

This would be the same Deloitte that audited all the big banks before the financial crash and told us that everything was OK.

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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door Orange14 » za feb 11, 2012 6:12 pm

bryan schreef:
This year's Deloitte Football Money League report is now available http://www.deloitte.com/view/en_GB/uk/i ... /index.htm. Ajax are just outside the top twenty with revenues of €97.1M.
This was really a one-off for Ajax as it includes some big outgoing transfers.

Deloitte say they exclude transfer fees from their revenue estimations, as these do not reflect the true day to day income of the club. Then they quote 97.1 million euro as Ajax's revenue. That figure includes the Suarez transfer, you can look it up on the Ajax website.

This would be the same Deloitte that audited all the big banks before the financial crash and told us that everything was OK.
Next year's figure will be skewed by CL football participation. BTW, Deloitte did not audit all the big banks and the crash was far more complicated than just what the banks did or didn't do (the investment banks such as Morgan Stanley and Goldman were not considered proper banks until after the crash when they needed to be bailed out by the US Treasury and they had to then be regulated as a bank). AIG who underwrote all the credit default swaps and the reckless mortgage lending by non-banks were far more complicit.
Appie Nouri will forever be remembered for his grace and humanity on and off the pitch!

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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door Manneken Pis » vr feb 24, 2012 12:07 pm

Apparently JC has taken up an unofficial advisory position at Chivas Guadalajara "similar to the one he has at Ajax".

Hmm ... you'd think he was busy enough as it was....
“If I wanted you to understand it, I would have explained it better.”

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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door Kowalczyk » vr apr 13, 2012 3:03 pm

Check this: Liverpool target Johan Cruyff for senior role following Comolli's exit

I find this little quote hilarious: "Reds owners Fenway Sports Group (FSG) have yet to draw up a definitive shortlist to replace Comolli. But the Dutchman, 64, has impressed FSG chief John W Henry in his senior roles with Ajax and Chivas in Mexico."

Hahahaha! COME! ON!

What exactly was so impressive, Mr Henry?

He wrote a new plan for the Ajax youth system! Even Cruijff himself says that there will be no immediate effect, it's a long term thing. There's nothing we can say about his masterplan at this point; it takes years. What else has he done? He got rid of the chairman, the Board Of Commissioners and most of the Board Of Directors, but most of their positions are still vacant. Even the biggest Cruijff fan on the planet can hardly claim that there's any such thing as an instant effect. Come on!

Chivas... Don't make me laugh. He's been there for one day and it was hardly more than a press conference. He smiled at half a million cameras; that's all for now.

But the Liverpool owners are impressed with his work as a senior... Yeah, right. My God. It's silly.

I wonder: would this story have appeared on the BBC website without the 0-6 result of the Ajax A1 against Liverpool...? I don't think so. That's how simple the world of football works: one match, played by teenagers - and there you go, Cruijff's "senior role" at Ajax is impressive... Come on.

K.
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bryan
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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door bryan » vr apr 13, 2012 5:10 pm

What can I say, bullshitters are easily impressed by other bullshitters.

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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door SPL » za apr 14, 2012 11:20 am

My paper say nil chance of JC at liverpool .Says he will never leave Barcelona to live anywhere else. Evidently he comes to Amsterdam for 2 days a month and his advising of our club is through phone calls to Frank de Boer.

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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door aveslacker » za apr 14, 2012 2:20 pm

SPL schreef:My paper say nil chance of JC at liverpool .Says he will never leave Barcelona to live anywhere else. Evidently he comes to Amsterdam for 2 days a month and his advising of our club is through phone calls to Frank de Boer.
This is exactly the problem I have with Cruijff's attempted takeover of the club. He comes to Amsterdam two days a month. I don't see how it can work like this.
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bryan
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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door bryan » ma apr 16, 2012 10:11 am

Cruijff wrote today in his Telegraaf column that Ajax needs to appoint foreign experts to important roles within the club.

This is after he spent a year trying to do exactly the opposite.

This man has lost the plot, I'm afraid.

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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door Tom_ » ma apr 16, 2012 10:37 am

I'm thoroughly confused now. I haven't been following it that closely, because it seems like a giant wank-fest to me. So, Cruijff took over the club, forced the entire board to resign, and now he himself has resigned too? Is that it? Or is it a symbolic resignation so they can reappoint him to some other position in the club?

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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door rjf1 » ma apr 16, 2012 10:40 am

Who can say -- impossible to know what is happening behind the scenes -- all we can do is look at the results of him cleaning out the stables -- 10 wins and a jump from a miserable 6th place (and heading downward) to 1st and a great shot at another title. That's all I need to know.

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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door Arthur » ma apr 16, 2012 10:45 am

Even Cruijff himself wouldn't claim credit for the 10 wins in a row. The changes he has made will have effect on the longer term.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.

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