'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

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Bericht door gordonvandekamp » do feb 21, 2008 7:50 pm

The Purple Cow schreef:I think people initially over-estimated Cruijff's new roll. At best he's a sort of temporary free-lance management consultant.

Y'know. The type that comes in, tells you what you already know (in a double-spaced report) invoices you for a small fortune, and then fucks off to a beach in Barbados.
Honestly, that's exactly what it's sounding more like after the initial hype did die down and he made comments to the press. I hope the lure and influence do turn out to be enough, but I think that will all come down to his commitment as it basically seems he can do whatever he wants if he chooses to based on his stature with the club.

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Bericht door bryan » do feb 21, 2008 9:15 pm

I believe the term is international football consultant.

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Bericht door Kowalczyk » za feb 23, 2008 10:45 am

Cruijff has graced his return to Ajax with another classic Cruijff quote.

The reporter wanted to know why he decided to go the meeting of the Members' Council on Tuesday evening. Nobody expected him. He just showed up, told everybody that he was prepared to 'do the job' and 'solve the problems' - and that was it.

Interviewer: "Nobody at Ajax knew you were coming."
Cruijff: "Correct. To be honest, I didn't even know I was going."

K.
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Bericht door DanK » za feb 23, 2008 11:18 am

Kowalczyk schreef:Cruijff has graced his return to Ajax with another classic Cruijff quote.

The reporter wanted to know why he decided to go the meeting of the Members' Council on Tuesday evening. Nobody expected him. He just showed up, told everybody that he was prepared to 'do the job' and 'solve the problems' - and that was it.

Interviewer: "Nobody at Ajax knew you were coming."
Cruijff: "Correct. To be honest, I didn't even know I was going."

K.
LMAO. That guy is a genius. He makes absolutely no sense what so ever, yet he does at the same time. Brilliant.

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Bericht door SPL » za feb 23, 2008 12:16 pm

If he is only around for one season to help Marco it can only be good for the club.

NB The ESPN Classics channel showed the 1972 Inter game again last night
and although I have it on tape couldn't help but watch the game again and see the great man in action.

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Bericht door Per » za feb 23, 2008 3:28 pm

The Purple Cow schreef:I think people initially over-estimated Cruijff's new roll. At best he's a sort of temporary free-lance management consultant.

Y'know. The type that comes in, tells you what you already know (in a double-spaced report) invoices you for a small fortune, and then fucks off to a beach in Barbados.
Ha ha ha! You've got my line of work exactly pinned down.
Why do you build me up? BUTTERCUP!

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Bericht door Blind3 » za feb 23, 2008 9:07 pm

If he can help impart some of the he who dares wins attitude , heart, guts, and guile he brought to his career to MvB and co, and help get the players to buy in. before he fucks off to said beach, I'll be overjoyed that he's back.
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Bericht door gordonvandekamp » di mar 11, 2008 5:57 pm

This appears to be the latest from Cruijff regarding his decision to step away from the position he took following the commision's report:

From: http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/c ... rmony.html
Cruyff: Ajax needs harmony

JC’s column in De Telegraaf:

I will explain once more why I decided to give the Ajax assignment back. I was asked to help reorganize the technical organization of Ajax. I want to emphasize that there is only a “business” disagreement between the future technical staff and myself. I myself have pleaded to keep some peace and quiet at the club and my leaving is only going to help that. No one got fired, there is no row and nothing escalated.

If I would have gone through with my plans, I would have taken risks. And no one would really benefit from that. My motives are simple. I want Ajax to be led by people who know what they’re doing. Because they are the ones who need to lead. Those people weren’t there when I talked to them. Now, the people who are in charge have assessed my plans and decided that they don’t want to pursue these. That’s fine. That’s their call. I can now push my plans through their throats, but it doesn’t work that way.

Marco and his staff want to do it their way. And that’s their prerogative. And that means that I will take my vision an step aside.

What annoys me is that people think I will go back to playing golf. I know better. In my third phase in my career - after playing and coaching - and I am fully committed to integrating sports in society. My foundation and the JC Academy are tangible examples of how I do that. My Cruyff Courts concept helped diminish youth crime, integration and child obesity issues and countries like Brazil and Argentina have requested educational programs to create better sports management. With these activities, I’m not sitting on a hill shouting, I am fully involved in the midst of it.
I just wonder what he was trying to accomplish in the first place. It's like he made a half-commitment that was dependent on what those in charge let him do. I agree with his opinions above, but I wonder if he'll continue to do things like this that will only cause more turmoil. I hope he's able to make genuine suggestions that get adopted for the good of the club, but it doesn't sound like he really wants to do that unless he is in charge, and he doesn't want to be.

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Bericht door JM » di mar 11, 2008 6:05 pm

Unfortunately, none of this surprises me. If nothing else, he is known for stirring up controversy & his "appointment" signaled to me that the club was ready to listen to bold suggestions. It is hard to assess the situation without knowing how bold those suggestions were...but I think many would agree that bold steps need to be taken.

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Bericht door gordonvandekamp » wo mar 12, 2008 4:18 pm

Here's a pretty good rundown of the Cruijff/van Basten situation from Ernst Bouwes' column on ESPN (which is generally a good read about a current Eredivisie topic if anyone doesn't check regularly; I think they come out every 2 weeks):

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/st ... s2&cc=5901
Ajax suffer from Cruyff u-turn
Ernst Bouwes


It is one of the historic moments in Dutch football: Johan Cruyff back on the pitch of De Meer, the Ajax stadium, after an absence of more than eight years.

Double the average attendance, 24,000 punters, came to watch Ajax against Haarlem in December 1981, wondering whether he could revive his own career as well as the struggling team of the capital.

With 22 minutes on the clock, Cruyff cut open the opponent's defence and chipped the ball from the edge of the box over goalkeeper Edward Metgod. A friend of mine claims watching this goal gave his life new meaning and lifted him instantly out of a mental depression. It may well be the most repeated clip of an Eredivisie goal in the 50 years of the league's existence.

Over the rest of the season, Ajax drew only twice and jumped above PSV to win the title by a five piont margin. Cruyff won another in 1983 and again in 1984, then with Feyenoord. This comeback and especially the wondergoal against Haarlem turned Cruyff into someone who to Dutch standards comes closest to the New Messiah. His miracles vary from leading Ajax to three European Cups to winning three Spanish titles on the final matchday as coach of Barcelona.

He also has a following of people who believe his every word. Unfortunately, this modern age Saviour comes with a bit of an attitude. He can turn water into wine, but only when he feels like it. Yes, he can heal the wounded, but only on his conditions.

Having reached the ripe age of 60 there was no chance of Johan Cruyff returning to the pitch to save his beloved but ailing Ajax this season.

The Coronel-report damned ten years of mismanagement at the club and every echelon was blamed. The maestro, in town as he had to analyze Champions League games on the public television network, decided to gatecrash the club's members' meeting arranged to duscuss the report.

He surprised many of the club members when he stuck his head around the door, but probably not all of them as a camera crew caught Cruyff passing the security barrier before he drove onto the parking deck of the Amsterdam Arena. 'Typical of Ajax to get together on a Champions League night,' Cruyff later quipped with a serious undertone.

During the meeting the report, which the great footballer had not bothered to read, was swept aside and the members urged him to save the club - even giving him carte blanche.

He agreed, although he restricted himself to the technical area as he had no knowledge of the rest of the organisation. In fact he restricted himself to whatever he wanted to do as he declined to take any formal position in the club. He did not even need an office space, he said the next day in the studio where he was to preview Celtic v Barcelona. He would draw up his plans at home in Barcelona, he explained to anchorman and friend Jack van Gelder who was feverishly searching for questions that would clarify what Cruyff was up to. It remained unclear.

While the former world star retreated to his Catalan mansion, the Board of Commissioners of the Ajax company announced they would vacate their position this summer, but did find it necessary to fire their commercial director Maarten Fontein first.

Fontein had signed fresh multimillion euro deals with new shirt sponsor Aegon and kit sponsor Adidas, while tapping into the Chinese market as well, but was axed for not being friendly and warm around the office.

With this the board followed the advice of the report, which also stated that the club had suffered from a lack of continuity when newly appointed coaches brought in some of their buddies as assistants while it had been a mistake to take former players onto the coaching staff too early. The following week former player Marco van Basten and his buddies John van't Schip and Rob Witschge were appointed for the next four years, as if there had been no report at all. The negotiations with the current national coach may have started before the report came out, but it is clear anyway that Ajax does take another big risk by hiring a coach without any club experience.

Van Basten, however, might be the personality the club is yearning for. In chairman Michael van Praag and coach Louis van Gaal they had two commanding figures who managed to keep the club on a steady course during the 90s. Current chairman John Jaakke is considered an outsider, as was director Maarten Fontein, while a succession of coaches never earned the respect of the fifth column that's buzzing around the Ajax floors and pitches. That made the club into a beehive, which was aptly adressed in the report.

Ajax needs a leader. This may be the director or the manager, but one of these two has to be the external face of the club and to have the respect of all the members. With the confident and cool-headed Marco van Basten they seemed to have found this captain. Then, suddenly, this other captain came barging in. The captain of captains! His appearance at that security barrier created havoc at newsdesks around the country and every talk show, even the serious ones, that night started with a pundit alluding his return. Cruyff and Van Basten seemed the perfect couple. Ajax were saved!

On March 5, Van Basten put pen to paper and signed a contract that will keep him at Ajax until the summer of 2012. The next day there was more good news. The big legendary red letters AJAX that were a main feature on the old De Meer Stadium were returned by the supporters who had stored them in a garage box for ten years. With Van Basten, the letters and Cruyff, the old successful Ajax seemed to rise as a Phoenix from the flames of the failure of recent years.

Already on Friday the two new leaders met to discuss the future of the club. The New Messiah set out his vision to completely overhaul the youth academy. The New Coach replied: not so fast. An argument, a difference of opinion and it was all over. They shook hands to confirm their friendship and said goodbye. That afternoon a short statement with scant explanation was delivered at press agency ANP, stating that after seventeen days
Laatst gewijzigd door gordonvandekamp op wo mar 12, 2008 7:10 pm, 1 keer totaal gewijzigd.

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Bericht door aveslacker » wo mar 12, 2008 5:01 pm

Thanks for the link.
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Bericht door Kowalczyk » ma apr 21, 2008 5:52 am

SE6Ajacied schreef:Today's Guardian has an artile about Cruijff with what he says is the real reason he missed the 1978 World Cup Finals....

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Sto ... 32,00.html

After 30 years, the truth behind Cruyff's World Cup absence

Graham Keeley in Madrid
Thursday April 17, 2008
The Guardian

For three decades, it has been one of the most enduring mysteries in world football. Why did Johan Cruyff, widely regarded as one of the three greatest players ever, decide that he would not play for Holland in the 1978 World Cup finals in Argentina? The Dutch reached the final - despite being beaten by Scotland in the group stages - but lost 3-1 to the hosts, and many blamed Cruyff's absence for their failure to lift the trophy.

At the time, speculation over the reasons for his decision was rife. It was claimed he had fallen out with the Dutch football association over sponsorship. Or maybe he objected to Argentina's rightwing military junta.
Now 30 years on, Cruyff has finally broken his silence to reveal the real reason for his no-show on football's biggest stage.

The former Ajax and Barcelona player has revealed that he and his family had been the victims of a kidnap attempt a few months before the tournament.

He said several criminals entered his house in Barcelona at night and tied him and his family up at gunpoint.

The experience changed his attitude to life and was part of the reason he decided not to play in the World Cup.

In an interview with Catalunya Radio, Cruyff said: "You should know that I had problems at the end of my career as a player here and I don't know if you know that someone [put] a rifle at my head and tied me up and tied up my wife in front of the children at our flat in Barcelona."

The Dutch superstar managed to escape and the kidnap attempt was foiled. But Cruyff said it changed his outlook on life.

"The children were going to school accompanied by the police. The police slept in our house for three or four months. I was going to matches with a bodyguard," he said.

"All these things change your point of view towards many things. There are moments in life in which there are other values.

"We wanted to stop this and be a little more sensible. It was the moment to leave football and I couldn't play in the World Cup after this."

He was living at the time with his wife, Danny Coster, and their three children in Barcelona when the kidnap attempt happened at the end of 1977.

After he announced that he would not be attending the 1978 World Cup, Cruyff's wife was blamed by some fans for putting him off playing. But in the radio interview, he said he wanted to put a stop to these rumours, which have surfaced again in a recently published book by another former Barca player, Carles Rexach.

The book claimed Cruyff was influenced by his wife and their children in all his decisions.

In Holland, there is still a lingering belief that if Cruyff had played in the 1978 World Cup finals, Holland may have come home with the coveted trophy. They have never come as close since.

Marteen Wijffels, a Dutch football journalist, said: "If he had played we could have won the World Cup. He would have made us stronger. I think people were very disappointed at the time he did not go."

But last night, Archie Gemmill, whose mazy run to score the winning goal for Scotland in their pyrrhic victory over the Dutch at the group stage is the stuff of Scottish folklore, insisted Cruyff's presence would have made little difference in that match at least.

"If he had played, it would not have made a blind bit of difference. Maybe we would have beaten them 7-2 instead of 3-2. We won the game, and that is it."

Cruyff enjoyed a glittering footballing career. He was first selected to play for Ajax at the age of 17 and went on to win three European Cups with the Dutch side.

He was a star at the 1974 World Cup for Holland even though they lost the final to West Germany.

He later played for Barcelona before returning as manager, leading the club to the European Cup in 1992. He was voted European Footballer of the Year, three times during the 1970s.

Graham Hunter, a Barcelona-based football commentator, said: "As a footballer, Cruyff was elegant, visionary and skilled beyond measure. He ranks third among the best footballers ever, after Pele and Maradona."

Cruyff, 60, declined to say if the kidnap attempt was one of the reasons why he decided to leave Barcelona in 1978.

But his spokesman, Joan Patsi, confirmed Cruyff's comments. "Johan had asked police for protection for sometime before this as he had been receiving threats. It is true this happened," he said.

"Another reason he decided not to go to the World Cup was he did not feel he was at his best and you have to be 100%."

In 1981 another Barca star, the Spain forward Quini, was kidnapped and held to ransom until freed by police after a month.

Backstory

Kidnapping for ransom or political gain has become such a universal agony that it is easy to forget that 30 years ago it was the world's rich nations that suffered most. In the 1970s, the proliferation of leftwing guerrilla groups from the US to Germany, Spain and Italy determined to wage war on wealth, capitalism and the established political order left a trail of victims and instilled fear among the rich and famous that anyone was a target. Patty Hearst, an American newspaper heiress was seized in 1974 by urban guerrillas known as the Symbionese Liberation Army and went on to join her captors. Peter Lorenz, a conservative candidate for mayor of Berlin, was abducted and freed in 1975. Hanns Martin Schleyer a German industrialist, was kidnapped in 1977, held for 43 days while ransom demands were made, and ultimately murdered. The Red Army Faction behind the abduction also counted leading banker Alfred Herrhausen and Karl Heinz Beckurts among its victims. In Italy the communist Red Brigades kidnapped Christian Democrat leader Aldo Moro. He was killed after a 55-day standoff. Spain was less acutely affected, though Eta and a shadowy leftwing group known as Grapo also resorted to abductions for political gain. Sports stars and athletes were rarely targeted, though the hostage taking at the Munich Olympics in 1972, which resulted in the deaths of 11 Israeli athletes, arguably set the chilling standards for the next decade. As the tactics migrated, footballers found themselves vulnerable in South America, as family members fell prey to kidnapping for ransom.
Mark Rice-Oxley
The funny thing is: it's complete bollocks, as Paul Onkenhout pointed out in this weekend's edition of de Volkskrant. Cruijff is trying to cough up an excuse to make himself and (more than anyone else) his wife Danny look better, and Jaap Visser of De Telegraaf (a total 'Cruijjffian') published Cruijff's explanation as if it's the truth and nothing but the truth.

The truth is, however, that Cruijff had already announced several times that he would not go to Argentina. There are interviews, published more than five months before the kidnapping attempt, in which he said: 'no way, I'm not going to the World Cup.'

The story about the attempted kidnapping is true, but he had already made up his mind. This is your typical Johan Cruijff 'media offensive' (this is not the first time he's trying to re-write the story of his career) - and he can always count on De Telegraaf and (subseqently) a large number of foreign papers and news agencies copying the news...

Mark my words: one day he'll tell people Holland did actually win the final of 1974... :drecul.gif:

K.
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Bericht door SE6Ajacied » ma apr 21, 2008 7:22 am

Kowalczyk schreef:
SE6Ajacied schreef:Today's Guardian has an artile about Cruijff with what he says is the real reason he missed the 1978 World Cup Finals....
The funny thing is: it's complete bollocks, as Paul Onkenhout pointed out in this weekend's edition of de Volkskrant. Cruijff is trying to cough up an excuse to make himself and (more than anyone else) his wife Danny look better, and Jaap Visser of De Telegraaf (a total 'Cruijjffian') published Cruijff's explanation as if it's the truth and nothing but the truth.

The truth is, however, that Cruijff had already announced several times that he would not go to Argentina. There are interviews, published more than five months before the kidnapping attempt, in which he said: 'no way, I'm not going to the World Cup.'


K.
Why doesn't this surprise me? Even as I was posting this I carefully wrote "with what he says is the real reason" :hypocrite.gif: The UK media lapped this up as the truth and the complete truth, it was even on the BBC TV News, so any cynicism on my part has come completely from reading this site (that bit's for Mr Cruijff's lawyers :biggrin.gif: )[/i]
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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door Kowalczyk » di apr 07, 2009 2:35 pm

Studio Sport are celebrating their 50th anniversary and they had a lengthy interview with Johan Cruijff, who heavily criticized all the so-called 'football analysts' on TV. Opinions, opinions, opinions - everywhere. Cruijff, by the way, is an 'analyst' himself. He was interviewed by Studio Sport's Jack van Gelder.

JC: "All of those people get the opportunity to give their opinion. They talk and talk and talk - and it's all nonsense."
JvG: "That's your opinion, Johan."
JC: "That's not my opinion, it's the truth."
JvG: "Those people have an opinion. Just like you."
JC: "No. I don't have an opinion. I know football. Those are two different things."

:drecul.gif:

I really love Johan Cruijff in discussions like this. Which does not necessarily mean he's a brilliant manager, or by any means the man to 'save' Ajax.

K.
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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door Blind3 » do apr 09, 2009 4:07 am

Always good for a laugh after a tough day at work. Thank you Hendrik Johannes (GOD) Cruijff ! Not sure El Salvador can save Ajax, but it is a pleasure watching his Barca clubs on Barca TV's classic matches program (Fox Soccer Channel on Fridays in the US).
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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door martinkohout » di mei 19, 2009 11:27 pm

"Dutch legend Cruyff blasts English foreign policy"

"There are very, very few Englishmen playing in the big English clubs.

"You only have to look at the Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Manchester United squads to realise that.

"The English national team - missing out on the last European championships - and football in general suffers as a result of them signing so many foreign players."

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story ... ue&cc=5901
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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door DanK » wo jun 03, 2009 2:50 pm

Here we go again...
Cruyff prepared to help Ajax
http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/cruyff-p ... ax-190919/

He told BNR Nieuwsradio: "They have to contact me. And they must show that they are willing to work with my ideas.

...blah blah blah.

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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door gordonvandekamp » wo jun 03, 2009 3:17 pm

Somehow I don't see him and Jol getting on very well, especially if Cruijff couldn't with Van Basten. I hope he enjoys his time in Barcelona for a few more years. I prefer he stays out of the way unless he is totally committed and invested in Amsterdam.
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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door aveslacker » wo jun 03, 2009 3:23 pm

DanK schreef:Here we go again...
Cruyff prepared to help Ajax
http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/cruyff-p ... ax-190919/

He told BNR Nieuwsradio: "They have to contact me. And they must show that they are willing to work with my ideas.

...blah blah blah.
Am I a bad person because I just want him to shut up and go away?
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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door Blind3 » wo jun 03, 2009 4:37 pm

No. you're probably one of a growing chorus of supporters. I feel the same way. Enough with the drama already ! I see no chance of a strong minded coach like Martin Jol bowing and scraping before the altar of The Oracle. Johan Cruijff's time at Ajax was the stuff of legend. Why tarnish the legend with his yearly " Mommy , Mommy notice me " . routine. Initially it may have been Johan being Johan, speaking out and all, but now I find his yearly chirping annoying.
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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door SPL » wo jun 03, 2009 5:56 pm

FourFour Two mag for July has a good article on the great man. You cannot mistake the mag as the cover has the great man circa 1974.

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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door DanK » wo jun 03, 2009 6:18 pm

aveslacker schreef:
DanK schreef:Here we go again...
Cruyff prepared to help Ajax
http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/cruyff-p ... ax-190919/

He told BNR Nieuwsradio: "They have to contact me. And they must show that they are willing to work with my ideas.

...blah blah blah.
Am I a bad person because I just want him to shut up and go away?
I fully respect the guy for his football, and yes his managerial history, but I'm with you. Please stay away from Jol and let him do his job.

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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door SE6Ajacied » wo jun 03, 2009 9:36 pm

SPL schreef:FourFour Two mag for July has a good article on the great man. You cannot mistake the mag as the cover has the great man circa 1974.
Yeah, I bought the magazine too for that article. It's a decent enough spread and certainly some good pictures but I found the article a wee bit patronising. Apparently before JC joined in 1965 Ajax were a "semi-professional outfit, merely the neighbourhood team for Amsterdam-East" and when Ajax won the European cup in 1971-73 it was "a neighbourhood team from a country that had never done anything before" that had re-invented football (obviously we need to forget those chappies from Rotterdam the year before then).

Alledgedly as well, after his first ever game "the reports mostly mis-spelled his name" which hardly seems likely - how many ways in Dutch can you spell "Johan Cruijff".

Not sure who wrote it (JC himself perhaps given the fawning romanticism) but it just seemed like a really poorly researched piece full of tired old-cliches to me. I am a fan of Cruijff (certainly Cruijff the player) and I'm no expert on Ajax history though even I spotted some mistakes but I just found the whole article really annoying, something that might have been, especially as it was only the cover that made me part with £4.10 in the first place (When Saturday Comes is a far superior read imho).
Forza Haarlem. HFC Gone but not forgotten!

SPL
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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door SPL » do jun 04, 2009 12:00 am

You sum it up well . I would not bother with the mag but the cover made me part with the money.

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Kowalczyk
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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Bericht door Kowalczyk » do jun 04, 2009 10:54 am

Great player, great coach, fantastic club icon.

But let's not listen to him for a few years, is what I suggest.

K.
Still alive...

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