UEFA competitions (CL, EL)

[Philippe]

Dutch clubs are doing well this season. Considering that there are fewer clubs from Holland than from other countries, this is quite a remarquable result.
Next season, we will be there too ;)
This seems to indicate that the "big league" and "Mickey competition" concepts are bullshit.

[Kowalczyk]

This seems to indicate that the "big league" and "Mickey competition" concepts are bullshit.

Exactly.

K.

[666]

Why? Teams from the Dutch and Portuguese Mickey Mouse leagues have always been best of the rest.

Business as usual.

[Philippe]

Then it is not "Mickey mouse" but "Mighty mouse" leagues

[Kowalczyk]

Well, the Dutch and Portugese leagues are alright, but not top drawer (a number of really small clubs in the bottom half of the table, with stadiums of 5,000 people, etcetera). But the big clubs from those leagues (Ajax, Feyenoord, PSV, Porto and - to a lesser extent - Benfica and Sporting) are really big clubs that do quite well in Europe every once in a while. Those five or six clubs (rather than the leagues as a whole) make Portugal and Holland the 'best of the rest' as football nations.

K.

[Philippe]

Hiddink wil investeren
EINDHOVEN - Bij kwalificatie voor de halve finale van de Champions League heeft PSV al 11 miljoen euro te goed van de Europese voetbalbond. De inkomsten van de televisierechten zijn evenals de recette van de thuiswedstrijden nog niet eens bij dit bedrag inbegrepen.

comment 1 : good for them :furious3:
comment 2 : what have we done with the money earned in the CL ? X'C

[Kowalczyk]

comment 1 : good for them :furious3:
comment 2 : what have we done with the money earned in the CL ? X'C

Not that we always spent it on the right players, but I can guarantee you one thing: there is absolutely no reason to be jealous of PSV's financial situation. Ajax are way 'healthier' (richer) than PSV at the moment.

K.

[666]

Koeman bought four (or was it five?) left wingers. Even so, there's about 30 million euros (minus a few million for Charisteas) waiting to be spent this summer. That's without the extra euros when we sell Vaart, Maxwell, Trabelsi, Sonck, etc.

We could buy six AZ players and then we still have money left to buy Bouhlarouz.

what have we done with the money earned in the CL ?

[Kowalczyk]

So... That was a lot of fireworks the Inter fans threw onto the pitch. And they also hit goalkeeper Dida with it...

Will they be banned?

The UEFA will have no mercy - no doubt about that.

K.

[carcajou]

So... That was a lot of fireworks the Inter fans threw onto the pitch. And they also hit goalkeeper Dida with it...

Will they be banned?

The UEFA will have no mercy - no doubt about that.

K.

I guess they'll get ahold of a base ball bat, sitck piled glass on it and then stuff it in the club's ass ;) :D :D :D

[Kowalczyk]

Seriously, though. In 1989 we had this thing called the 'bar incident' at De Meer. Fans were throwing stuff because we were crashing out and the game called off because the goalkeeper was actually hit.

We were banned from Europe for two seasons. Ajax appealed and the punishment was reduced to one season plus (after the ban) the first three home game at a stadium 100 km away from Amsterdam.

If that's the standard... Inter are f#cked.

K.

[jakobg]

If that's the standard... Inter are f#cked.

K.

Sure hope so. Yesterday's game was a real tragedy. It's so sad the fans (well, a bunch of stupid idiots) can play such a big part in this beautiful game.

[LucaS]

I'm afraid it's not the standard. Ajax was not a very big name in the 80's. About two years ago a simular situation occured with an Italian (or spanish) club and their punishment wasn't that severe..

[Eric]

Seriously, though. In 1989 we had this thing called the 'bar incident' at De Meer. Fans were throwing stuff because we were crashing out and the game called off because the goalkeeper was actually hit.

We were banned from Europe for two seasons. Ajax appealed and the punishment was reduced to one season plus (after the ban) the first three home game at a stadium 100 km away from Amsterdam.

If that's the standard... Inter are f#cked.

K.

I think you are being rather naive Ko. History showed that clubs have been punished less severely for bigger incidents than Ajax was in the eighties. The fact that we are now talking about an influential Italian club won't help either.

[Kowalczyk]

I'm afraid it's not the standard. Ajax was not a very big name in the 80's. About two years ago a simular situation occured with an Italian (or spanish) club and their punishment wasn't that severe..

Obviously that was what I was kind of suggesting...

During Ajax vs Austria Vienna the goalkeeper was hit by an object (okay, it was a heavy object, namely an iron bar) and it didn't help that the 'special guest' stadium announcer (Dutch comedian Freek de Jonge) made a few jokes about the Nazi history of Austria's president, Kurt Waldheim.
Penalty: one year ban from UEFA competition and three home games 100 km away from Amsterdam

A few years a goalkeeper was hit by a bottle thrown by AC Milan fans from the stands of the San Siro. Admittedly, it was not an iron bar and there were no Nazi jokes or anything like that.
Penalty: one game 100 km away from Milan (against Ajax, coincidentally; game was played in Triëst)

The most painful example that the UEFA came down hard on Ajax in 1989 was the incident during AS Roma vs Dinamo Kiev in 2004: Italian fans were throwing stuff and hit the referee against the head. He had to call the game off and left the pitch wounded (face covered in blood).
Penalty: two games without spectators.

Now come on!! What's that all about?? The referee wounded - and only two games without spectators? We played three games in Düsseldorf after having been banned from Europe for a full season!

Yesterday night Dida was hit by a rocket and there was so much fireworks on the pitch that the fire dept had to take the pitch and extinguish it. It would be fair to compare that to our 'bar incident', but I betcha they're not gonna get kicked out of Europe for a year...

K.

[LucaS]

don't think you'll find the fool that takes your bet

[Philippe]

Will they be banned?

The UEFA will have no mercy - no doubt about that.

No doubt you are joking. UEFA will not do more than a ridiculous fine plus a stadium suspension for one or two games. Don't expect more.

[jakobg]

UEFA will not do more than a ridiculous fine plus a stadium suspension for one or two games. Don't expect more.

I'm not so sure. If Inter would only get 1-2 games without crowd/playing in another stadium, it would be plain stupidity from UEFA. They'll have to show their muscles in this matter now.

The right thing to do would of course be international suspension for one year, plus empty stands for some matches. Don't know if that'll happend, but it has to be more than a few games stadium suspension.

My guess is that Inter will be paying big time for this one. Eventho they're one of the 'big clubs'.

[jakobg]

By the way, no one expected yesterday's tradgedy to happend. It's tonight we've got the high-risk game. The Juventus 'fans' ordered everyone to bring their knifes and show the Pool fans that they haven't forgot what happened just yet.

Maybe yesterday was a good alarm clock for the Italian police. Let's prey to God the Juve fans will stay calm and that there will be no bloodbath tonight.

Let's kick racism/violence/idiots in the crowd/all kinds of shit of football now! Whatever it takes. This is the f*cking Champions League, it's surposed to be all about football. Nothing else.

[Manneken Pis]

This seems to indicate that the "big league" and "Mickey competition" concepts are bullshit.

On that subject... saw this in "The Knowledge" on the FootballUnlimited.com website:

"Every year we get excited about English teams in the Champions League and every year they fail," says Paul Ross. "Is our record anywhere near as good as the hype surrounding the Premiership suggests it is?"

In a word, nowhere near. Fawning Skysters constantly bracket the Premiership with La Liga and Serie A as the three best leagues in the world, but the stats don't even come close to stacking up. Since English sides returned to Europe in 1990, their performance at the top table has been wretched. Liverpool were excluded in 1990-91, and the Champions League began a year later: in that time, not including this season, English sides have managed just five semi-finals (Manchester United in 1997, 1999 and 2002, Leeds in 2001 and Chelsea in 2004), which puts them in fifth place, and a solitary final - Clive Tyldesley's famous night in Barcelona - which puts them in sixth. The full lists are as follows:

Finalists
Italy 9
Spain 7
Germany 4
Holland/France 2
England/Portugal 1


Semi-finalists

Spain 12
Italy 11
Germany 7
France 6
England 5
Holland 3
Portugal 2
Ukraine/Greece 1

_______________________________________________________________________

[Philippe]

If we want to have figures which make sense, we have to match those above with the number of clubs each of those countries get at the start of the competition.
This should lead to a slightly different conclusion ... ;)

[carcajou]

If we want to have figures which make sense, we have to match those above with the number of clubs each of those countries get at the start of the competition.
This should lead to a slightly different conclusion ... ;)

This would lead to the conclusion that the Premier is even worse than those figures lead us to think, because they usually send 3 or 4 clubs to the Champions League. And I don't even talk about the financial gap between leagues like France or Holland where the financial control from the national league is very strict and countries like Spain or Italy where everything is allowed.

[jakobg]

Maybe yesterday was a good alarm clock for the Italian police. Let's prey to God the Juve fans will stay calm and that there will be no bloodbath tonight.

Hmm, got my own little discussion here. Well, anyways, Italian police has already arrested 8 persons after Juve fans attacked Liverpool fans with baseball bats. Good start. :eusa_doh:

[carcajou]

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it" - George Santayana

[Over Pasanens Head]

Maybe yesterday was a good alarm clock for the Italian police. Let's prey to God the Juve fans will stay calm and that there will be no bloodbath tonight.

Hmm, got my own little discussion here. Well, anyways, Italian police has already arrested 8 persons after Juve fans attacked Liverpool fans with baseball bats. Good start. :eusa_doh:

I know that you should be able to attend these type of matches, but you really have to be a thick scouser to go to this one.
Its not rocket science to work out that the Turin thugs will crawl out from under their stones for this one.