Ajaxtalk

This season as we all know has been a complete mess. Altough we've managed to win lots of games lately (most of them last minute goals) and we still have a chance of at least finishing second, what worries me the most is the type of football Ajax is playing. Why are we playing so bad? Is it because of Koeman messing up the team this year? Is it due to a poor attitude from the players? What ever is going on has to stop. Ajax has much more to offer. :xyxthumbs:

Hi John,

You are asking the Ultimate Question Ajax Supporters Are Asking Themselves This Season... It's a very big question, and a very important one (when talking footie, that is; in the bigger scheme of things it's not so important...), so it is - in a way - totally legitimate to start a special thread for it.

So, I will not close it down - and I will not direct you to one of our existing threads.

However... this thread is almost as big as this whole discussion forum, if you know what I mean. Therefore, please try to discuss Ajax's current form in a thread about a specific Ajax match. I, for one, will post my comments about Ajax's play to the Ajax vs NEC thread...
http://www.ajaxtalk.nl/portal/viewtopic.php?t=4871

K.

What is wrong with this team is three years with a disaster as a trainer. All Koe learned this team is run backwards as hard as they can... :sad:

Lucas schreef:What is wrong with this team is three years with a disaster as a trainer. All Koe learned this team is run backwards as hard as they can... :sad:

My 0.02 $ :

Many players are not Ajax players in their heads, at least in their heads OR flying miles above of their actual standard, surfing on the hype.

I guess players like Maxwell, Rafael Van der Vaart, Heitinga or Nigel De Jong are playing way under their real level.

Basically in 2002 they had a good run in the Champs' League, and now they just think that they're already there, which is wrong, because football is about looking for the little details that they can get you better (working on your bad foot *cough* for example, or working on your defence/dirty play) not about living on past fame. I guess the real problem is that those players are just waiting for openings in bigger leagues, because they think they're worth more than Ajax, to sum it up they're not hungry anymore.

The funny thing is that a guy like Trabelsi, who got bad mouthed a lot a few months ago is now a very good and regular player. He's busting his ass off
at each game, defending, attacking and giving his best. Seems like the greedy mercenary is in fact a precious team player. I hope I could say the same about all the others.

And you know what summarizes Ajax' 2005 problems the best ??

The AjaxTalk banner logo. Let me explain.

Here they are, the proud Dutch golden generation :

From left to right :

De Ridder : Wasted talent, which illustrates the problems we have with our youth academy, and bad coaching (played several times out of position, and might be willing to leave in the summer because of that)

Sneijder : Probably the only one lives up to the expectations. but had problems with the coach (Koeman clearly wasn't tough enough to get respect from the kid). Plays pretty much at the same spot than VdV. Might be waiting for his turn.

Heitinga : A great disapointment. Was sometimes great last year, but lacked confidence. Koeman kept switching players, which didn't help him. His play is now pretty mediocre, and the fans are waiting for Grygera's comeback.

Rafael Van der Vaart : The problem with the guy is that he's been too good (and thus praised too much) too young. Now has a big ego, a glossy fiancée, and a burning will to leave for Spain. Hasn't played well for two years, but keeps being fielded for mysterious reasons. Did I mention the problems with Ibrahimovic, Steks (the now famous wedding affair) AND the coach (several times). Man I wish I could smack him down to the basics of football : behaving, giving your best, using your talent for the team, and being cool with the fans. That little brat.

De Jong (is it Nigel ??) : Koeman kept using him to fill the holes in the back line (he played as a right back, left back, central defender and even as a midfielder). Had his moment of glory but doesn't make the cut anymore.

So my guess is that what we need now is to kick some player's ass, and bring them down to Earth. They're playing like shit and they SHOULD face the truth.

I think Carcajou has it just about right.

Carcajou schreef: the real problem is that those players are just waiting for openings in bigger leagues, because they think they're worth more than Ajax, to sum it up they're not hungry anymore.

The biggest problem with Ajax is that vicious "nursery of Europe" complex. The whole management, from Board to coach, has to understand that Ajax can not be satisfied just by providing wealthier clubs with world class players. Ajax can become world's best club again if they find ambition again.

Recent results show how unrealistic it is to think in terms of "bigger leagues". Last season's CL final was between a team from Portugal and a team from France...

This season, AZ will at least make it to the UEFA 1/4 finals. And it's the same with P$V in the CL.

And players who were excellent with Ajax still are excellent with their new wealthier club.

So let's finish with this bullshit. We want Ajax to be ambitious. And no more "too much expectations" non sense.

Wasn't that exactly Louis Van Gaal's point Philippe?

...and when he confronted Koeman with his falling expectations the board backed Koeman.

The rest is history.

Blind has said that his goal is to finish at least second in the league and to win the 'amstelcup'. Finally some ambition instead of downgrading the ambitions all of the time..

Lucas schreef: Finally some ambition instead of downgrading the ambitions all of the time..

Exactly! Each and every Ajax-coach should at least have the ambition to win some silverware... or finish 5th in the League... or 3rd in the League. ;) :D

:X
I think that the situation now is not as dramatic as 4 years ago. We have very talented and skillfull players. Some great ajacieden will probably say that this selection has the same potential as the selection in 1995..

Some random thoughts:

It does not help that 3 of the team VDV,Maxwell and Trabelsi are all set to leave at the end of the season.

Some players have been built up to be world beaters when they are not. VDV Sneijder and especially Heitinga. At the start of the season Heitinga was supposed to interest Milan. Watching AC Milan's defence making Moan U look crap I think the possibilty of Heitinga playing at that level is a joke.

The biggest problem of all , and apologies for repeating this yet again ,selling Zlatan and not having a striker who can score goals.

Finally we would of course be breathing down PSV's neck if we had beaten Den Haag both games and of course beaten Twente . A team of even this Ajax's ability should have done that. I am not going to speculate on other games where we dropped points but those 3 games should have resulted in 9 points and not 2.

Zlatan wasn't a goalscorer either. From the 4 juventusstrikes his average is worst by far (goal per played minute).

Lucas schreef:Zlatan wasn't a goalscorer either. From the 4 juventusstrikes his average is worst by far (goal per played minute).

Still he has played the most and been the best of the four, and has created lots of goals, with assists and rebounds from his shots.

I could bet my left nut on that we would have been way better with Zlatan this season.

Oh well, I won't start whining again. We've been over this before...

So if Zlatan had stayed he would only have covered the problems. Koeman was way too long in charge just because there were some reasonable results. I don't want too just watch results, I wanna see a good game of football!

jakobg schreef:

Lucas schreef:Zlatan wasn't a goalscorer either. From the 4 juventusstrikes his average is worst by far (goal per played minute).

Still he has played the most and been the best of the four, and has created lots of goals, with assists and rebounds from his shots.

I could bet my left nut on that we would have been way better with Zlatan this season.

Oh well, I won't start whining again. We've been over this before...

He's of course the best of all the Juve scorers. He created many chances, gave many assists and opened space for his team mates, as usual. I can only fear what is going to happen when Trezeguet will get back to REAL match-fitness....

vi schrijft:

code:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naam: Minutes played: Goals: Efficiency:
1. Del Piero 1463 10 1 per 146 min.
2. Zalayeta 931 6 1 per 155 min.
3. Trezeguet 806 5 1 per 161 min.
4. Zlatan 2572 10 1 per 257 min.

Sure, that was what you said you last post too Lucas, but it doesn't say much. The fact that Capello has played him twice as much as any of the other forwards says more.

But we're off topic here. All I wanted to say was that I belive we would have had a much better season with Zlatan in the team.

It took him a few years to become a true goalscorer, but in 2003-2004 Zlatan scored 13 goals in 18 league appearances for Ajax. In the first two games of the current season he scored three times. That's a very good average. It really seemed like he had developed into a goalscorer (and, of course, a brilliant footballer).

Zlatan's departure was a major loss. An early death blow to our season, in fact. Had he still been here we would have seen at least a dozen of brilliant moments (which really is the thing we're missing the most this season).

K.

Babel will become a great player. Zlatan just picked his games..But Jakobg is right..very off-topic. And a discussion you without any doubt already had and are done with..

IMHO, one reason is that Ajax has no leader now.The coach was a failure ; both in leading by force of will and in finding players who would do the same.

How I wish a coach who isn't gray or standing around with hands in pockets.How I wish for a player with heart, guts, and a follow-me attitude to put on the Ajax strip. Like a Chivu or even a Van Halst. I attended enough training sessions during the time Cristian Chivu was in our colors to know that you didn't have to look for the armband to know who the captain was.He practiced as he played.He was vocal and energetic.Perfect, no.He benefited from a wise old vet called Bergdolmo.But ,he led from the front ranks.As for Van Halst, he wasn't stylish ,but he gave you all he had.Every match.He too was vocal, and smart, and a damn sight better than the present lot as a leader.

IMHO, one reason is that Ajax has no leader now.The coach was a failure ; both in leading by force of will and in finding players who would do the same.

How I wish a coach who isn't gray or standing around with hands in pockets.How I wish for a player with heart, guts, and a follow-me attitude to put on the Ajax strip. Like a Chivu or even a Van Halst. I attended enough training sessions during the time Cristian Chivu was in our colors to know that you didn't have to look for the armband to know who the captain was.He practiced as he played.He was vocal and energetic.Perfect, no.He benefited from a wise old vet called Bergdolmo.But ,he led from the front ranks.As for Van Halst, he wasn't stylish ,but he gave you all he had.Every match.He too was vocal, and smart, and a damn sight better than the present lot as a leader.

The Purple Cow schreef:Wasn't that exactly Louis Van Gaal's point Philippe?

...and when he confronted Koeman with his falling expectations the board backed Koeman.

Well, I miss van Gaal. Although he is said to be responsible for selling Zlatan before making sure he had replacement.

I can't believe how pathetic the Ajax management has been the last couple of years : selling some of our key players without getting paid, wasting the CL money, turning against the fans asking them to give up their nickname, sacking our best coach ever.

I hope Danny Blind will survive to his new job.

The reason why we are playing so bad came clear to me just a week or 2 ago. Menno took us on the walking tour of Ajax Club history. De Meer Stadium and Olympic Stadium were in the Eastern part of Amsterdam, where the traditional Ajax supporters are. Children like Johan C. used to grow up in "Concrete Village" in the shadow of the stadium and say "Some day, I'll play in that stadium".

Now, the Amsterdam Arena is in the middle of nowhere basically with very little housing around it. Thus, there is no football culture around the stadium anymore. That is why the youth ranks are not as strong as they used to be. We have to build through the youth, not by buying players. I have come full circle on that issue of buying players. I used to be pro-player buying but not after this trip and talking to a few people about it.

And above all, for crying out loud, those people who think that by simply changing the logo that everything at Ajax will be back to the days of the early 70s, you need your head examined! The logo has jack @#$& to do with how the team is performing.

I was just curious: the number of goals we're scoring this season must be the lowest in many years. We currently have 62 goals with only four more games to go. Here's the number of goals we scored in recent years...

2003-2004: 79
2002-2003: 96
2001-2002: 73
2000-2001: 85
1999-2000: 72
1998-1999: 73
1997-1998: 112
1996-1997: 55
1995-1996: 97
1994-1995: 106
1993-1994: 86
1992-1993: 87
1991-1992: 83
1990-1991: 75
1989-1990: 67

For the record: the highest number of goals Ajax ever scored in the Eredivisie was 122, in 1966-1967.

The lowest number ever was in 1964-1965 (a.k.a. the worst season Ajax ever had in 'modern' Dutch football, after World War II): 52 goals, but the league only had 16 teams (30 games each) that year, instead of 34 games.

In other words: the lowest number of goals Ajax ever scored in an Eredivisie season of 34 games was 55 (1996-1997, Louis van Gaal's last year and Ajax's first season at the ArenA). The current season will probably yield the lowest number of goals since that season, unless we score ten or eleven goals in the remaining four games.

Another statistic... The topscorer. Our 'topscorer' of the moment is Ryan Babel with 6 goals. In 1996-1997 (the season of the 55 goals in total) Patrick Kluivert and Jari Litmanen finished the season as the two 'topscorers' with 6 goals each (scored in 16 and 17 matches, respectively). In 1989-1990 Aron Winter was topscorer with 10 goals in 32 games.

Babel scored his 6 goals in 16 Eredivisie appearances so far, but to his defense: in 50% of those games (eight in total) he was a sub and played for less than 45 minutes.

K.

Lack of goals.One more reason I'm for a major renovation project beginning June 1 if not sooner. We aren't going to have scorers without providers. Pienaar is too often out. Ditto Van der Vaart.Sneijder is talented, should stay, but needs a swift kick or a cattle prod to push him in the right direction.A similar rule must be run over the wingers and all dead weight shipped out.