Ajax Coaches

News and discussion

Moderators: ajaxusa, Kowalczyk, mods

Ayman
Berichten: 2624
Lid geworden op: za apr 23, 2005 8:50 pm

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door Ayman » do dec 21, 2017 8:31 pm

SPL schreef:Orange.

You know you will keep watching. I think the new man will be confirmed by the weekend.Gut feeling is Bosz .

My prediction is Bosz will rule himself out, while John van Schipt will be the prime candidate.
Reason: Bosz had a clash of interest with Bergkamp and Spijkerman, Overmars didn't back Bosz, neither did Van der Sar, so if he returns, who is to say he won't be thrown under the bus yet again? It's civil war at Ajax behind the scenes, so far Overmars and Van der Sar are the winners out of all these fiascoes.

Tomy14
Berichten: 35
Lid geworden op: za aug 20, 2016 10:15 pm

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door Tomy14 » do dec 21, 2017 8:36 pm

Ayman schreef:
SPL schreef:Orange.

You know you will keep watching. I think the new man will be confirmed by the weekend.Gut feeling is Bosz .

My prediction is Bosz will rule himself out, while John van Schipt will be the prime candidate.
Reason: Bosz had a clash of interest with Bergkamp and Spijkerman, Overmars didn't back Bosz, neither did Van der Sar, so if he returns, who is to say he won't be thrown under the bus yet again? It's civil war at Ajax behind the scenes, so far Overmars and Van der Sar are the winners out of all these fiascoes.
You are mistaken Overmars has a great relationship with Bosz.

Ayman
Berichten: 2624
Lid geworden op: za apr 23, 2005 8:50 pm

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door Ayman » do dec 21, 2017 8:37 pm

Tomy14 schreef:
Ayman schreef:
SPL schreef:Orange.

You know you will keep watching. I think the new man will be confirmed by the weekend.Gut feeling is Bosz .

My prediction is Bosz will rule himself out, while John van Schipt will be the prime candidate.
Reason: Bosz had a clash of interest with Bergkamp and Spijkerman, Overmars didn't back Bosz, neither did Van der Sar, so if he returns, who is to say he won't be thrown under the bus yet again? It's civil war at Ajax behind the scenes, so far Overmars and Van der Sar are the winners out of all these fiascoes.
You are mistaken Overmars has a great relationship with Bosz.

Yes but when it came down to the crunch, Neither Overmars nor Van der Sar were there when he needed them the most.

Tomy14
Berichten: 35
Lid geworden op: za aug 20, 2016 10:15 pm

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door Tomy14 » do dec 21, 2017 9:12 pm

@Ayman It was hard for Overmars to go against Van der Saar, Bergkamp and Spijkerman at the same time!! Van der Saar is above Overmars and for the most part Bergkamp had the freedom to do whatever he wanted to at Ajax. That left Overmars no choice but to accept the decision that was made from them without jeopardizing his position at the club.

Gebruikersavatar
Orange14
Berichten: 7934
Lid geworden op: zo jul 06, 2008 10:02 pm
Locatie: Bethesda, MD

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door Orange14 » do dec 21, 2017 9:19 pm

SPL schreef:Orange.

You know you will keep watching. I think the new man will be confirmed by the weekend.Gut feeling is Bosz .
Of course I will!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :ajaxscarf.gif: :ajaxscarf.gif: :ajaxscarf.gif: :ajaxscarf.gif:

Bosz will be the easy, safe choice.
Appie Nouri will forever be remembered for his grace and humanity on and off the pitch!

Gebruikersavatar
Orange14
Berichten: 7934
Lid geworden op: zo jul 06, 2008 10:02 pm
Locatie: Bethesda, MD

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door Orange14 » do dec 21, 2017 9:23 pm

Tomy14 schreef:@Ayman It was hard for Overmars to go against Van der Saar, Bergkamp and Spijkerman at the same time!! Van der Saar is above Overmars and for the most part Bergkamp had the freedom to do whatever he wanted to at Ajax. That left Overmars no choice but to accept the decision that was made from them without jeopardizing his position at the club.
I never could figure out what Bergkamp was doing at Ajax other than causing behind the scene issues. I often posted about his stoic appearance when he was de Boer's assistant. He would just sit on the bench with a stone face while the team played mind-numbing football. This was against everything he was taught and how he played at Arsenal under Wenger.

Maybe the ghost of Johan Cruyff had a role to play in today's decision.
Appie Nouri will forever be remembered for his grace and humanity on and off the pitch!

Gebruikersavatar
Amol
Berichten: 2799
Lid geworden op: do feb 03, 2005 5:03 pm
Locatie: New York

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door Amol » do dec 21, 2017 9:49 pm

What if they come to their senses and also bring Jonk back to replace Bergkamp?

SPL
Berichten: 10952
Lid geworden op: vr feb 04, 2005 7:22 pm
Locatie: WORTHING ENGLAND

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door SPL » do dec 21, 2017 10:19 pm

Just to clarify Bergkamp wanted Bosz out and v d Sar backed him.Overmars wanted Bosz to stay and then wanted Michael Laudrup as coach with Keizer as the no 2.Seems like Overmars knows what he is doing.

Will Bosz want to come back with v d Sar still here.Maybe not.

Ayman
Berichten: 2624
Lid geworden op: za apr 23, 2005 8:50 pm

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door Ayman » do dec 21, 2017 10:22 pm

Didn't Overmars oust Wim Jonk? didn't he make that oh so woeful signing in Siem de Jong?

Gebruikersavatar
Amol
Berichten: 2799
Lid geworden op: do feb 03, 2005 5:03 pm
Locatie: New York

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door Amol » do dec 21, 2017 10:52 pm

Ayman schreef:Didn't Overmars oust Wim Jonk? didn't he make that oh so woeful signing in Siem de Jong?
I prefaced it with 'If they came to their senses' :blush.gif:

Tom_
Berichten: 2858
Lid geworden op: do feb 03, 2005 1:26 pm

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door Tom_ » do dec 21, 2017 11:02 pm

I find this strange, I think we have the same points total as we did at this time last season (or maybe better) with a weaker squad and the terrible events of the pre season. We were also out of the beker at this stage last season.

Not sure Keizer is the person to blame for this predicament...

Ayman
Berichten: 2624
Lid geworden op: za apr 23, 2005 8:50 pm

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door Ayman » do dec 21, 2017 11:06 pm

The coaches I don't want to see at Ajax: Laudrup, van den Brom, Olsen, Van Gaal or Vant'Schipt
The coaches that won't be at Ajax: Advocaat, Koeman, F. de Boer, Rijkaard etc ( A whole bunch of em)
The coaches that I wouldn't mind seeing at Ajax: Bosz, Jans, Bosvelt (Ok stretching it a bit with the last one)
Laatst gewijzigd door Ayman op do dec 21, 2017 11:06 pm, 1 keer totaal gewijzigd.

Gebruikersavatar
Amol
Berichten: 2799
Lid geworden op: do feb 03, 2005 5:03 pm
Locatie: New York

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door Amol » do dec 21, 2017 11:06 pm

Tomy14 schreef:
Amol schreef:Trouble is - Bosz never really came up with a plan B. And now he doesn't have Sanchez and Tete's speed to save him on defense.
Plan A usually worked most of the time when he coached Ajax. As far as Sanchez.....Yes he doesn't have him but i'm sure he'll figure something out, he's good at that. Tete was hardly used by him!!
Plan A always failed when the opposing manager came with a plan to beat his plan A. Surprisingly enough Tete was used a lot in Europe where we actually ended up using his speed.

Tomy14
Berichten: 35
Lid geworden op: za aug 20, 2016 10:15 pm

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door Tomy14 » vr dec 22, 2017 2:10 am

Amol schreef:
Tomy14 schreef:
Amol schreef:Trouble is - Bosz never really came up with a plan B. And now he doesn't have Sanchez and Tete's speed to save him on defense.
Plan A usually worked most of the time when he coached Ajax. As far as Sanchez.....Yes he doesn't have him but i'm sure he'll figure something out, he's good at that. Tete was hardly used by him!!
Plan A always failed when the opposing manager came with a plan to beat his plan A. Surprisingly enough Tete was used a lot in Europe where we actually ended up using his speed.
I don't buy into that!! Can you please elaborate onto which games you're talking about? Apart from the first games of the season where he was still figuring out the team he did very well and was able to collect more points than any of the seasons that De Boer was on the team that made us champions. If it wasn't for the Europa League and the two games in a week there was no doubt that we were gonna win the title that year. Don't forget that some people say the same thing about Guardiola.....!! As for the Tete case i can assure you that all the games he played in Europe was due to either Veltman being injured or suspended. That is probably the only thing i used to complain about Bosz the use of Veltman instead of Tete.

Gebruikersavatar
Amol
Berichten: 2799
Lid geworden op: do feb 03, 2005 5:03 pm
Locatie: New York

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door Amol » vr dec 22, 2017 2:40 am

Tomy14 schreef:
Amol schreef: Plan A always failed when the opposing manager came with a plan to beat his plan A. Surprisingly enough Tete was used a lot in Europe where we actually ended up using his speed.
I don't buy into that!! Can you please elaborate onto which games you're talking about? Apart from the first games of the season where he was still figuring out the team he did very well and was able to collect more points than any of the seasons that De Boer was on the team that made us champions. If it wasn't for the Europa League and the two games in a week there was no doubt that we were gonna win the title that year. Don't forget that some people say the same thing about Guardiola.....!! As for the Tete case i can assure you that all the games he played in Europe was due to either Veltman being injured or suspended. That is probably the only thing i used to complain about Bosz the use of Veltman instead of Tete.
Match examples -
Ajax - Man U - http://www.ajaxtalk.nl/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=13019

Lyon - Ajax - http://www.ajaxtalk.nl/Forum/viewtopic. ... 5&start=25

PSV - Ajax - http://www.ajaxtalk.nl/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=13005

Schalke - Ajax - http://www.ajaxtalk.nl/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=13002

Copenhagen - Ajax - http://www.ajaxtalk.nl/Forum/viewtopic. ... 0&start=25

Examples of stubbornness -
Playing Traore at CF
Playing the same 3 in MF almost all year - Schone, Ziyech, Klaassen.
Veltman over Tete

A lot of us complained about the lack of any squad rotation all year. Stubbornness plus lack of plan B.

Also, comparing anyone to De Boer is unfair and also not something I'm going to do. He had a great start, but kept losing great players each season and then tried to overplay his defensive hand. Just became very boring.

I like Bosz. But he does need to come up with a plan B for cases when plan A doesn't work. Ajax with a plan A works in the Eredivisie most of the time. For the team and players to develop, they need to be able to move to a different tactical plan when the opponent knows what you're going to do and is employing tactics to stop you. He failed miserably when folks figured out how Dortmund was going to play.

Even Keizer who got treated slightly unfairly had the guts to switch between 4-3-3 and 3-4-3 and make it work. Somehow both him and the team lost the plot twice in Enschede in a matter of a few weeks. Also didn't help by the fact that he was best buddies with Bergkamp and was recommended by him.

Tomy14
Berichten: 35
Lid geworden op: za aug 20, 2016 10:15 pm

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door Tomy14 » vr dec 22, 2017 2:49 am

De Telegraff is saying that we are after Ten Hag with Alfred Schreuder as his right hand. There has also been a rumor that Bosz was seen at the Johan Cruyff arena. Personally i like both of them!!

Tomy14
Berichten: 35
Lid geworden op: za aug 20, 2016 10:15 pm

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door Tomy14 » vr dec 22, 2017 4:58 am

@Amol
I disagree with the above match examples that you provided and ill explain why....For the game against United (which by the way was a very special game for me because i attended that final) we were the underdog on so many levels since we were playing against a team that is far more superior than us in every aspect of the game. 1) They have 5 times our budget. 2) They are far more experienced than us dealing with the magnitude of these games. 3) Their players are stars and ours are stars on the making (we hope). 4) Luck was on their side since on their first attempt on target a deflected shot that was heading wide ended up in our goal. After that it was too hard to break them down since they decided to sit back and hit us on the counter. Make no mistake on this game, even if our manager was Guardiola, Wenger or Klopp we would still be the team to end up losing.

Lyon-Ajax: After playing such a wonderful game in Amsterdam against them it was to be expected that Lyon would perform better than what they showed the first game. Luckily for us we scored very early and that helped us deal with the pressure that was coming. Imo we were the better team up until the mistake from our 17 year old defender who gave away a penalty to Lyon. After that our inexperienced team panicked and from yet another mistake we concede another goal which took us to the half-time down 2-1. Ajax was the better team for many periods of that first half but blaming the coach for individual mistakes is nonsense. The pressure on the second half was immense but for the most part we did ok until we conceded the third and then Viergever received the red in the end making it a nail biter those last 10 minutes. Again i don't see how someone can say Bosz got it wrong! Lets not forget we don't have the players nor the experience to win these type of games on the road. But we did manage to advance to the final and that was all that mattered.

PSV-Ajax: Its simply pointless to analyze this game since we had played Thursday 120 minutes 20 of those on 10 men against Schalke and with 2 and a half days of rest you can't expect much especially facing a tough opponent like PSV away. Now you can argue as to why Bosz didn't rotate but its hard to explain that.....perhaps he trusted the same players or maybe he didn't trust enough on his bench and frankly i don't blame him.

Schalke - Ajax: The first half looked like its going to be a walk in the park because besides the shot on post they had, Ajax controlled most of the game creating some very nice chances but failing to capitalize. The second half begins and judging from what they have seen from Schalke any coach would change nothing simply because nothing was scary about them. Then they score and we yet again sh*t our pants making them better than what they actually are. The rest you know.....Personally for this game i would blame some of our players who were caught off their position leading to a counter from the Germans. Again i don't see any mistakes from our coach but once again mistakes from our young team that should have dealt with some situations better.

Copenhagen - Ajax: That was a very strange game but according to your sayings Soldbakken (coach of Copenhagen) figured out Bosz's plan and managed to defeat him. How come on the return leg in Amsterdam where Soldbakken used the same plan he had used in Denmark he received a free lesson from Bosz and his men as to how to play proper football!! He in fact quoted that "Ajax was scary good on the game against us if they reach these standards again they have no one to fear in this competition".

From all the above games i have no complains from Bosz and believe me when i tell you i am extremely strict when i judge any coach of Ajax but for this guy i can't seem to find many things that he gets wrong, maybe the use of Veltman instead of Tete but who knows his thinking behind that decision.

Lastly.....Who says you can't play Traore as a CF? Out of the 16 games he has played for Chelsea most of those were as a central forward. Why not play the same 3 midfielders? Schone, Ziyech and Klaassen, had a great chemistry with one-another, why change them!!

rjf1
Berichten: 2277
Lid geworden op: za jan 06, 2007 11:54 am
Locatie: Taipei, Taiwan

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door rjf1 » vr dec 22, 2017 11:15 am

SPL schreef:... As long as its not V Gaal, Koeman or de Boer.
My sentiments, exactly. I hope it will be someone who has an attacking philosophy. The team did best when they sought to attack at every opportunity, and seemed to flounder whenever they played a 'slow, steady, buildup' game with a whole lot of meaningless passing along the back line.

SPL
Berichten: 10952
Lid geworden op: vr feb 04, 2005 7:22 pm
Locatie: WORTHING ENGLAND

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door SPL » vr dec 22, 2017 12:30 pm

Looks like its Ten Hag with Alfred Schreuder as his right hand man. Dont know much about them so will wait and see.

Gebruikersavatar
King Litti
Berichten: 547
Lid geworden op: di nov 22, 2011 9:45 am
Locatie: Helsinki, Finland

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door King Litti » vr dec 22, 2017 1:09 pm

We have been playing Inconsistently, but didn't see this one coming. Like SPL, I too feel a bit bad for the guy. He had a bunch of broken hearted young players to mold in to a spirited team. And it wasn't all bad like Tom pointed out.

I guess the thing is that this is Ajax. The expectations are so high every year. There can't be no other goal than to win a domestic double every year and preferably, they should be won in style. In addition we should go as far as possible in Europe. Not that there should be a different goal, but is this always very realistic. For example with our current roster and with money ruling football. Reeaallly hope I'm wrong, but it might be a long time that we see another run like last year in Europe.

Sad that the things behind the scenes are turning in to a soap opera. Hope that things will get sorted out soon and people will start thinking about the club before themselves. Don't really have the expertise to evaluate the candidates for the job. I guess all of our coaches should be good at dealing with and developing young players, cause young players are our bread and butter. They are the key to our success cause we all know we're not a buying club (not that I would like it any other way).
"We're on a mission from God."

Gebruikersavatar
Orange14
Berichten: 7934
Lid geworden op: zo jul 06, 2008 10:02 pm
Locatie: Bethesda, MD

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door Orange14 » vr dec 22, 2017 1:50 pm

Keizer was hurt by two things: poor finishing that resulted in too few goals being scored from chances created and strange substitution patterns. In the games that Ajax played poorly (lost or drawn) they created more and better scoring chances in almost everyone according to the 11 tegen 11 analyses. Ajax still have the best goal differential in the league. I'll not comment any further on the substitution patterns as we all have discussed those in the individual match threads.

I believe Keizer was probably not experienced enough to handle the pressure of managing Ajax. However, I did see a much better MF (primarily a result of the Klaassen transfer of which I need not go into as you all know my assessment of him) and much more of the play took place in the attacking half of the pitch and there was much less back passing this season. I feel bad for our sacked manager as this will go down as a black mark on his resume and I hope he does get an opportunity to manage another club as I believe he has a good tactical approach to the game.

I am not enamored of Bosz returning to Ajax. He did get us to the EL championship last season but the stubborn streak he had regarding not playing Tete after the first couple of matches was stupid IMO. We don't fully know what prompted him to jump to Dortmund after only one season. My hope is that van der Sar and Overmars have sorted things out and the club can move on and build for the future. They need a manager who can interact on a much better level to bring in the needed players. We've seen how the youth system continues to do a good job in generating solid players and a manager who is not afraid to play the youngsters when they are ready is the primary requirement. My preference as I've already stated is Thomas Tuchel but he won't want to manage in a 2nd tier league.
Appie Nouri will forever be remembered for his grace and humanity on and off the pitch!

SPL
Berichten: 10952
Lid geworden op: vr feb 04, 2005 7:22 pm
Locatie: WORTHING ENGLAND

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door SPL » vr dec 22, 2017 2:34 pm

Agree with Orange,I usually do, poor finishing and strange subs cost him. He clearly was too inexperienced to take over but Ten Hag is no more experienced ,2 years at Utrecht!!

I actually would like to see V d Sar go as he backed Bergkamp over Bosz and saying yes to Keizer. Dont think Bosz was going to return with Edwin in charge.

Keizer may have succeeded had we appointed an experienced older no 2 from outside. Keizer of course should have been a no 2 himself.

2 big things which went against him ,we have 130m plus in the bank and have not spent on adequate replacements especially in defence.

And of course hanging over the club and the season Appie. This is not some young foreign kid that we dont know. A kid who sums up what Ajax stands for ,hughly popular and loved by players and staff and hero worshiped by fans.

Keizer had an impossible job but handled the dreadful events with Appie brilliantly.Our squad are still mainly local lads who have grown up with Appie and Keizer had to motivate them to perform which was probably the last thing they wanted to do.

If he did nothing else Keizer must be thanked by all Ajax fans for how he coped with that tragic day July 8th ,one of the saddest days in our long history.

Gebruikersavatar
Amol
Berichten: 2799
Lid geworden op: do feb 03, 2005 5:03 pm
Locatie: New York

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door Amol » vr dec 22, 2017 3:49 pm

Tomy14 schreef:@Amol
I disagree with the above match examples that you provided and ill explain why....For the game against United (which by the way was a very special game for me because i attended that final) we were the underdog on so many levels since we were playing against a team that is far more superior than us in every aspect of the game. 1) They have 5 times our budget. 2) They are far more experienced than us dealing with the magnitude of these games. 3) Their players are stars and ours are stars on the making (we hope). 4) Luck was on their side since on their first attempt on target a deflected shot that was heading wide ended up in our goal. After that it was too hard to break them down since they decided to sit back and hit us on the counter. Make no mistake on this game, even if our manager was Guardiola, Wenger or Klopp we would still be the team to end up losing.
That Man U team's defense was as follows - Romero, Smalling, Blind, Valencia and Darmian. They had Fellaini play the whole game. The defense is truly garbage and so is Fellaini. Trouble is - we never got to their defense since we kept making the same mistakes over and over. Mourinho told his players to keep Sanchez open and our midfield was not dynamic enough to come back to help collect the ball from him.

Having said that, I will follow my rules of internet arguments and disengage.

Tomy14 - You are absolutely correct. Bosz is the best coach available and he doesn't have to change anything or learn anything new.

Cruijff
AT Toto winner 14/15
Berichten: 21880
Lid geworden op: di jan 31, 2006 12:06 am

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door Cruijff » vr dec 22, 2017 4:54 pm

Amol schreef:
Tomy14 schreef:@Amol
I disagree with the above match examples that you provided and ill explain why....For the game against United (which by the way was a very special game for me because i attended that final) we were the underdog on so many levels since we were playing against a team that is far more superior than us in every aspect of the game. 1) They have 5 times our budget. 2) They are far more experienced than us dealing with the magnitude of these games. 3) Their players are stars and ours are stars on the making (we hope). 4) Luck was on their side since on their first attempt on target a deflected shot that was heading wide ended up in our goal. After that it was too hard to break them down since they decided to sit back and hit us on the counter. Make no mistake on this game, even if our manager was Guardiola, Wenger or Klopp we would still be the team to end up losing.
That Man U team's defense was as follows - Romero, Smalling, Blind, Valencia and Darmian. They had Fellaini play the whole game. The defense is truly garbage and so is Fellaini.
Jep.
A complete shit back line. That team should have been beaten easily.

Ayman
Berichten: 2624
Lid geworden op: za apr 23, 2005 8:50 pm

Re: Ajax Coaches

Bericht door Ayman » vr dec 22, 2017 8:21 pm

I'm wishy washy about Peter Bosz, sure he got Ajax far in the Europa league, but was hard headed, he would prefer Sinkgraven as back to Viergever rather than Riedewald. He should have had Tete as first choice right back, with Veltman and Sanchez partnering each other in defense, and de Ligt getting minutes from time to time on the pitch. He refused to rest players when they needed it, which cost Ajax the Eredivisie title, which could have been won, remember the game against PSV? As for ten Hag, by the time we get to the summer, people would be baying for blood, they would want him axed.

Plaats reactie