Former Ajax Players

aveslacker · Bericht door **aveslacker** » ma apr 18, 2005 8:03 am

jakobg schreef:
Blind3 schreef:The Limecat's sour disposition should be sweetened by Zlatan's 3 in Juve's 5:2 over Lecce. Looking forward to seeing the re-broadcast on GolTV.
The limecat will never be pleased! ;)

I hope not. That would take all the fun out of it.

Blind3 · Bericht door **Blind3** » ma apr 18, 2005 6:25 pm

And I thought I was HARDCORE 4-LIFE :headbang:

Manneken Pis · Bericht door **Manneken Pis** » di apr 19, 2005 12:26 pm

Numerous sites are talking about (Ajax resigning Dennis Bergkamp for one final season. Dunno if this is based on anything 'real' or if it's the standand Bergkamp/Jansen (agent) strategy to get Arsenal to sign a 1 year deal.....it's a tactic they've used for the last number of years after all....

Could be interesting to get a few 'old heads' (Blind has talked to Litmanen, Davids, and Bergkamp now) back for next season...particularly is we squeek in to the CL.

carcajou · Bericht door **carcajou** » di apr 19, 2005 12:30 pm

Manneken Pis schreef:Numerous sites are talking about (Ajax resigning Dennis Bergkamp for one final season. Dunno if this is based on anything 'real' or if it's the standand Bergkamp/Jansen (agent) strategy to get Arsenal to sign a 1 year deal.....it's a tactic they've used for the last number of years after all....

Could be interesting to get a few 'old heads' (Blind has talked to Litmanen, Davids, and Bergkamp now) back for next season...particularly is we squeek in to the CL.

OK for Davids and Bergkamp but Litmanen can stay where he is, with all due respect to the myth he is.... He is old and injury prone now. Unless he wants to come back for free or cheap match premiums based on performance, because he KNOWS the club and can teach one thing or two to the youngsters.

Manneken Pis · Bericht door **Manneken Pis** » di apr 19, 2005 12:38 pm

Carcajou schreef:OK for Davids and Bergkamp but Litmanen can stay where he is, with all due respect to the myth he is.... He is old and injury prone now. Unless he wants to come back for free or cheap match premiums based on performance, because he KNOWS the club and can teach one thing or two to the youngsters.

Agreed....I believe Litmanen has already said no anyway...it was more to show how important Blind seems to think bringing back experienced players is.

jakobg · Bericht door **jakobg** » di apr 19, 2005 12:38 pm

Carcajou schreef: OK for Davids and Bergkamp but Litmanen can stay where he is, with all due respect to the myth he is.... He is old and injury prone now. Unless he wants to come back for free or cheap match premiums based on performance, because he KNOWS the club and can teach one thing or two to the youngsters.

I agree. Litmanen is more than welcome back to work within the club, but as player he is no longer even close to what he used to be.

Davids and Bergkamp would be just excellent. Just the exprerienced and still-going-strong players we'd need.

The Purple Cow · Bericht door **The Purple Cow** » di apr 19, 2005 1:57 pm

Blind offered Limanen an assistant coach's job, not a playing job.

Blind3 · Bericht door **Blind3** » di apr 19, 2005 4:01 pm

I agree re: Litmanen also. Great as a player when in his prime, but been there done that on his return as a player.I think he will return as coach when he finally, or his body does it for him,calls it a day.

jakobg · Bericht door **jakobg** » wo apr 20, 2005 12:58 pm

I know we've (at least I have) been whining enough about the Zlatan departure already, but I'm still not over it.

Do you realize that only four players in modern time has scored more goals than Zlatan in their first Serie A season (Ronaldo, Sheva, Platini and Zico) and there's still 7 matches left of the season. Add to that that Zlatan's many assists and goals 'created' and he's season has been more than excellent. And we gave him away for a few lousy Euros.

Ok, I'll let it go now, but as I said, I still can't get over it. Worst decision in years. :frusty:

Per · Bericht door **Per** » wo apr 20, 2005 1:03 pm

jakobg schreef:I know we've (at least I have) been whining enough about the Zlatan departure already, but I'm still not over it.

Do you realize that only four players in modern time has scored more goals than Zlatan in their first Serie A season (Ronaldo, Sheva, Platini and Zico) and there's still 7 matches left of the season. Add to that that Zlatan's many assists and goals 'created' and he's season has been more than excellent. And we gave him away for a few lousy Euros.

Ok, I'll let it go now, but as I said, I still can't get over it. Worst decision in years. :frusty:

What bugs the hell out of me is the amount of money we got for him. Juventus made the bargain of the decennium. Ronney went the same time to Manu ofr incredibly much more money. It bugs the hell out of me!

Bericht door **Kowalczyk** » wo apr 20, 2005 1:23 pm

jakobg schreef:Worst decision in years. :frusty:

Sounds like an exaggeration, but you're actually right. It's one of the worst managerial mistakes I have ever experienced as an Ajax supporter. Terrible timing, terrible calls from the ones responsible and the fee was nothing special. Not really a shit fee, but they didn't exactly make the most out of it either, which they should have done given the circumstances (season already started, transfer window about to close, not one but two more years on his contract, Ajax vs Juve coming up in the CL...).

That whole story is a tragedy. A chain reaction of managerial mistakes and unfolding worst case scenarios - and it is (still) a very mysterious story as well. What went wrong, who made the critical decisions and how did it go wrong? The Ajax officials involved (Van Eijden, Koeman, Van Gaal, Jaakke) are still passing the responsibility around faster than Ajax ever passed the ball around this season...

K.

Manneken Pis · Bericht door **Manneken Pis** » wo apr 20, 2005 2:06 pm

jakobg schreef:Worst decision in years. :frusty:

And to think it was because there was an issue with H.R.H. VdV.....whose provided bugger all since "the problem" was transfered.

carcajou · Bericht door **carcajou** » wo apr 20, 2005 3:13 pm

He wouldn't have had such an impact had he stayed in the Eredivisie. I mean that champnionship is all about three really good teams a half dozen decent ones and the remainder is PLAIN SHIT.
Zlatan is a player that begs for glory, he needs the extra pressure to give his best, and the Italian professional spirit (we all know that they're winners even if it means playing like dog shit for 90 minutes). Playing alonside Del Piero, Trezeguet or Nedved hasn't done him bad.
From what I've seen on TV, he's even a better player now that when he was playing for us (just look at the figures knowing that Italian defences are way better than Dutch ones).
So I'd say of course he'd have been a key player had he stayed one more year (and the fee is just ridiculous given the talent he possesses - and he still can improve a lot with the header using the 1.94m he's been offered by Mother Nature -), but I guess leaving was a good choice for him, and he's proving me right.

Blind3 · Bericht door **Blind3** » wo apr 20, 2005 4:08 pm

I'll never get over the sale of Zlatan.An out and out betrayal by the brass(or is it crap?) hats. They sold Ajax down the river for a bargain. I know Zlatan had attitude and brashness.But, dammit, he also produced. I'll take that trade off any day...unless the player is so over the top he becomes a cancer.

aveslacker · Bericht door **aveslacker** » wo apr 20, 2005 6:44 pm

Carcajou schreef:He wouldn't have had such an impact had he stayed in the Eredivisie. I mean that champnionship is all about three really good teams a half dozen decent ones and the remainder is PLAIN SHIT.
Zlatan is a player that begs for glory, he needs the extra pressure to give his best, and the Italian professional spirit (we all know that they're winners even if it means playing like dog shit for 90 minutes). Playing alonside Del Piero, Trezeguet or Nedved hasn't done him bad.
From what I've seen on TV, he's even a better player now that when he was playing for us (just look at the figures knowing that Italian defences are way better than Dutch ones).
So I'd say of course he'd have been a key player had he stayed one more year (and the fee is just ridiculous given the talent he possesses - and he still can improve a lot with the header using the 1.94m he's been offered by Mother Nature -), but I guess leaving was a good choice for him, and he's proving me right.

I agree with Bebs here. True the team got raped on the transfer fee, but beyond that, Zlatan was never going to stop PSV from scoring 4 times. Zlatan was never going to possess the ball in midfield and conrol the buildup of play. And Zlatan wasn't going to feed himself the ball in a position to score.

And given how anemic the service sent forward has been for most of the season, it is highly unlikely that Zlatan would have come close to scoring all the goals that he has in Italy. Look at the last goal he scored prior to leaving. A true golazo, where he made like half the opposing team his bitch. That's about the only kind of goal he could score with Ajax because he couldn't get shit for service.

In Italy, on the other hand, where a good team might work hard, but work together to generate one or two really good chances per game, and where there are other targets to occupy the defense, (with names like Nedved or Trezuguet) Zlatan is the man. At Ajax, he was the main threat (oh, besides Sonck, of course), so defenses could key on him, something they can't do in Italy, lest one of Zlatan's comrades wind up in the six yard box with the ball at his feet.

Don't get me wrong, the club should have not fallen for the Roma - Juve straw man game (something that seemed to work out really well for Juve, but it isn't like Italian clubs cheat or anything) and gotten more for him (although I don't know how much more, considering he didn't play in England -- if he had, he would have garnered much more). But at the end of the day, given all that has happened since, I can't see Zlatan giving Ajax 11 more points than they have now. And given his petulance, I don't see how he was going to make the ride any less turbulent than it has been.

I hope he has a great career, that's for sure. But I can't really get too exercised about his departure.

Philippe · Bericht door **Philippe** » do apr 21, 2005 10:20 am

Carcajou schreef:He wouldn't have had such an impact had he stayed in the Eredivisie. I mean that champnionship is all about three really good teams a half dozen decent ones and the remainder is PLAIN SHIT. .

If you want to talk about "shit", tell us about the AC Milan/ Inter games for instance. Or the recent AC berlusconi/juventus CL final. The real SHIT in football is the one played but 95% of the Italian clubs, and not the least.

There is more fun to watch an average Dutch league game than almost any Serie A game. In my opinion anyway.

One more thing. If anyone can get in touch with Zlatan, tell him to keep away from the doctors there.

jakobg · Bericht door **jakobg** » do apr 21, 2005 1:31 pm

philippe schreef: There is more fun to watch an average Dutch league game than almost any Serie A game. In my opinion anyway.

I'm not sure I can agree on that one. Not that I've seen too many 'average Dutch league games' in my life, but I'd choose for example Lazio-Parma or Lecce-Udinese any day over Roda-NAC or Vitesse-Willem II.

As said before, I've been surprised how much entertainment there is in Serie A. I'm not saying all Italian teams play great football all the time, 'cause they don't. Especially not in the European cups. But saying Serie A is boring, isn't fair.

carcajou · Bericht door **carcajou** » do apr 21, 2005 1:49 pm

jakobg schreef:
philippe schreef: There is more fun to watch an average Dutch league game than almost any Serie A game. In my opinion anyway.
I'm not sure I can agree on that one. Not that I've seen too many 'average Dutch league games' in my life, but I'd choose for example Lazio-Parma or Lecce-Udinese any day over Roda-NAC or Vitesse-Willem II.

As said before, I've been surprised how much entertainment there is in Serie A. I'm not saying all Italian teams play great football all the time, 'cause they don't. Especially not in the European cups. But saying Serie A is boring, isn't fair.

And the goal per game ratio has gone though the roof. I watch the highlights every week and the Serie A has really gotten exciting (at last). Many teams now play with a more offensive style and socre like 3-2 are not rare anymore...

Per · Bericht door **Per** » do apr 21, 2005 1:50 pm

aveslacker schreef: At Ajax, he was the main threat (oh, besides Sonck, of course), so defenses could key on him, something they can't do in Italy, lest one of Zlatan's comrades wind up in the six yard box with the ball at his feet.

I think it was about time someone really stepped up and showed the right kind of appreciation for Wesley. Well done aveslacker!

P.s I do not want to play on the flank. I do not want to play offensive midfield. I DO want to play no9, but when I do, I'm utter shite.

WHo am I?
D.s

Per · Bericht door **Per** » do apr 21, 2005 3:50 pm

I just checked out some stats on Wesley.

He scored twice in the Bndesliga so far. How the hell did he improve THAT much since he left us. I always knew he had it in him, that guy.

Almost as much as he thought he had it in him.

Man, what a difference he could have made this season.....

Blind3 · Bericht door **Blind3** » do apr 21, 2005 4:58 pm

No doubt the Serie is the most offensive I've ever seen it.Offensive in terms of scoring that is.However, one could make the case that seeing Roma on my tv,Chivu aside, offends me greatly.One thing which offends me more is Krautbal.

Speaking, :pukey: , of Krautbal: As for Wesley, don't know what his situation will be like in coming weeks.Advocaat is going, going, gone and Snorussia Munchkin Getback is one point above the bottom 3.

Philippe · Bericht door **Philippe** » do apr 21, 2005 5:37 pm

Carcajou schreef: I watch the highlights every week and the Serie A has really gotten exciting (at last).

I bet you do. Just because serie A is everywhere on TV in this country. It is almost impossible to avoid. Sadly.

And of course highlights only show rare moments of thrill.

I think Serie A sucks. Very over rated.

carcajou · Bericht door **carcajou** » do apr 21, 2005 5:43 pm

Per schreef:I just checked out some stats on Wesley.

He scored twice in the Bndesliga so far. How the hell did he improve THAT much since he left us. I always knew he had it in him, that guy.

Almost as much as he thought he had it in him.

Man, what a difference he could have made this season.....

Moenchengladbach sera privé jusqu'à la fin de la saison de son attaquant Wesley Sonck qui doit subir une opération à l'aine. Transféré de l'Ajax Amsterdam à la trêve hivernale, l'international belge a été victime de nombreuses blessures depuis son arrivée, ne marquant que deux buts en sept rencontres.

According to lequipe.fr :

Moenchengladbach will miss his forward Wesley Sonck until the end of the season. He's gonna undergo a groin surgery. Transferred from Ajax Amsterdam at the winter mercato, the belgian international has been injured several times since his arrival and onl scored twice in 7 games.

Philippe · Bericht door **Philippe** » do apr 21, 2005 5:49 pm

what has become of Richard Witschge ? Is he playing for an amateur club now ?

jakobg · Bericht door **jakobg** » do apr 21, 2005 6:01 pm

philippe schreef: I think Serie A sucks. Very over rated.

Can you explain why Serie A is so overrated in your eyes? I just want to know how you're thinking.

I mean, lots of goals and lots of chances. Very technical and good football. Apart from the whining and players falling way too easily I think the football is of highest class.

We're going a bit off topic here now, but if you look very deeply into the subject maybe a connection to former Ajacied Ibrahimovic is possible to see. ;)