General Football Discussion

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SPL
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door SPL » wo mar 17, 2021 8:35 pm

I like the idea only 2 teams from a country can qualify automatically every season and others have to qualify.

Stop the nonsense of EL winners qualifying automatically for CL .Spurs having a moderate season and Arsenal ,who sadly are now a poor mid table team ,have no place in the CL next season if they win the EL.

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Orange14
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door Orange14 » wo mar 17, 2021 11:00 pm

SPL schreef:
wo mar 17, 2021 8:35 pm
I like the idea only 2 teams from a country can qualify automatically every season and others have to qualify.
Under my proposal only Germany and England would get two guaranteed spots in the group stage as they are the only countries with 2 teams in the quarter finals. Imagine how much fun it would be to see a lot of the others have to go through one or more qualifying round!!!
Appie Nouri will forever be remembered for his grace and humanity on and off the pitch!

Ayman
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door Ayman » do mar 18, 2021 1:42 am

I prefer the status quo of how it was pre late 90s. Champions League for champions only, bring back the Cup winners cup. And the Europa cup of how it used to be. Now to a lot of people that won't make much sense, as the Europa cup will end up being the strongest competition!

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Amol
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door Amol » ma apr 19, 2021 11:07 pm

No discussions about the ESL here yet - so let me get us started :ajaxsmiley.gif:

Ajax have made an announcement earlier today that we're going to stay the course with UEFA and not join the ESL. There's rumours that Ajax was under consideration and the https://thesuperleague.nl does re-direct to the main https://thesuperleague.com/ website.

Tom_
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door Tom_ » ma apr 19, 2021 11:28 pm

The delay in Ajax’s announcement made me wonder if they were waiting to see what the reaction would be like.

Assume it will leak eventually if the club had planned to join.

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Amol
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door Amol » di apr 20, 2021 3:40 am

I mean in all honesty, UEFA has screwed us over for the last 20-25 years. UEFA is now taking the moral high ground vs ESL just because they won't get their cut of the money.

Waiting to see how it all pans out. I don't really like the fact that it's a safe space for the 12 founding members. Spurs and Arsenal who haven't won anything at least had to end up in the top 4 in the EPL to get into the CL. Now, they don't even have to try to put out a decent team. This is a weird capitalist socialist hybrid concept which my brain is still trying to comprehend.

Tom_
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door Tom_ » di apr 20, 2021 11:40 am

I don’t think I’d call it socialist :) To me it’s like the NBA, where you add teams if they can pay their way into the league.

I think for us fans it’s going to be boring as ... well, as boring as the champions league usually is when we’re not in it. I certainly have no interest in watching Manchester vs. Madrid at all, let alone five times in a year. But it’s probably easier to sell to casual watchers because there’s always a big game on.

SPL
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door SPL » di apr 20, 2021 12:13 pm

Pure greed from these clubs but UEFA are all greed just the same . If it takes off it will be interesting to see who else they want in. Outside the 4 main leagues I would say the biggest 2 named clubs are PSG from France and Ajax.The whole world still knows our name ,we have a much bigger profile than Benfica,Porto or French teams like Lyon,Marseilles.

I only watch Ajax and the only other football I want to see again next season are Ajax U17 and U18 teams on their youtube channel live on Saturday lunchtimes.Also want to walk 10 minutes down the road to watch Worthing live ,in level 7 in English football.

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Orange14
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door Orange14 » di apr 20, 2021 1:34 pm

I've written extensively on this over on the Big Soccer forum. This will be a disaster for league football in Italy, Spain, and England. With permanent places in the ESL, why should any of those clubs care about competing for the top four? Look at what's happening in Italy right now as Juventus are barely clinging on to fourth place and could be overtaken by Lazio and lose out. If competition at the league level tanks, they won't get big television contracts any longer and there will be a death spiral.

There will be no incentive for these teams to maintain development academies any longer as they can simply go out and buy replacement talent (ManCity pretty much does this right now) and other than Marchisio (now retired), I am hard pressed to name any Juventus academy product who has made the first team in recent years. This being the case, Ajax could argue that clubs that successfully develop new young players deserve a premium bonus in all transfers to Super League teams. Why shouldn't de Jong and de Ligt transfers add an extra €10-20M to the transfer fee as an 'academy development' charge.

The Swiss Ramble had a good tweet on why this league is important to the 12 clubs. Their collective debt right now is over 7 billion pounds and who are number one on the loss parade, Tottenham (largely because of the costs of the new stadium). That's the only reason Spurs made the cut, it certainly had nothing to do with football ability!!
Appie Nouri will forever be remembered for his grace and humanity on and off the pitch!

Tom_
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door Tom_ » di apr 20, 2021 2:03 pm

That was the biggest eyebrow raise for me. Not intending to offend anyone, but when was the last time Arsenal or Tottenham won anything in Europe? Or in England?

If the domestic leagues impose points penalties or cancel games, I guess the fans of those clubs could revolt. But I don't even know if that would stop it, because the clubs seem to have decided they don't need the fans.

It's all pretty gross and let's hope Ajax is well clear of it.

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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door Tom_ » di apr 20, 2021 2:06 pm

And SPL is quite right pointing out UEFA is all greed - I really think UEFA brought this on themselves by letting the "richer" clubs dictate the CL structure.

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Orange14
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door Orange14 » di apr 20, 2021 4:19 pm

Tom_ schreef:
di apr 20, 2021 2:06 pm
And SPL is quite right pointing out UEFA is all greed - I really think UEFA brought this on themselves by letting the "richer" clubs dictate the CL structure.
That aspect was signed and sealed with the Bosman decision back in the 1990s. UEFA's attempt at financial fair play went no where and the huge debt of clubs is a mockery. In the US, NBC has seen the ratings of EPL matches tank this year and they are moving matches to the pay streaming service.
Appie Nouri will forever be remembered for his grace and humanity on and off the pitch!

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Amol
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door Amol » di apr 20, 2021 5:00 pm

Tom_ schreef:
di apr 20, 2021 2:06 pm
And SPL is quite right pointing out UEFA is all greed - I really think UEFA brought this on themselves by letting the "richer" clubs dictate the CL structure.
That is exactly the problem. UEFA has been 100% involved in letting these clubs get so big and now the clubs don't need UEFA to sustain.

UEFA and FAs absolutely have to take a strong stance here - ban the clubs from their local leagues and the players from playing for their national teams.

I do feel sorry for a lot of the players who were probably never consulted.

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Amol
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door Amol » di apr 20, 2021 5:10 pm

Better yet - if they actually go ahead with it, figure out a way to nullify the CL trophies and give them to the other finalist. That will make sure they realize that it's a one way street and no coming back.

SPL
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door SPL » di apr 20, 2021 8:20 pm

Chelsea,Man City want out so do Atletico Madrid and Barca being a club owned by members who will never agree to it.So thats all over.

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Orange14
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door Orange14 » di apr 20, 2021 10:21 pm

SPL schreef:
di apr 20, 2021 8:20 pm
Chelsea,Man City want out so do Atletico Madrid and Barca being a club owned by members who will never agree to it.So thats all over.
This leaves only Florentino Perez and Andrea Agnelli with egg on their faces for having mis-read things so dreadfully.
Appie Nouri will forever be remembered for his grace and humanity on and off the pitch!

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Amol
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door Amol » di apr 20, 2021 10:37 pm

This is going to be so beautiful. Unmitigated disaster and a much lower negotiating position now. Hopefully UEFA sees the light now and stops playing up to these greedy power hungry dirty dozen clubs.

Ayman
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door Ayman » wo apr 21, 2021 9:17 am

Amol schreef:
di apr 20, 2021 5:10 pm
Better yet - if they actually go ahead with it, figure out a way to nullify the CL trophies and give them to the other finalist. That will make sure they realize that it's a one way street and no coming back.
If that ever happened, it would never go to the finalist. Marseille were stripped off of their trophy when they played AC Milan in 1993. It wasn't awarded to AC Milan

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Amol
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door Amol » wo apr 21, 2021 3:39 pm

Only 2 left now - Madrid and Barca. Barca probably has no money to pay the fines for leaving and is also hiding behind the socios who had to vote on this anyway.

Perez probably staying back to collect fines from everyone and then close the shop down.

Next thing which should be struck down are some of the changes from the 2024 CL Access List/Procedures.

Cruijff
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door Cruijff » wo apr 21, 2021 5:50 pm

Ayman schreef:
wo apr 21, 2021 9:17 am
Amol schreef:
di apr 20, 2021 5:10 pm
Better yet - if they actually go ahead with it, figure out a way to nullify the CL trophies and give them to the other finalist. That will make sure they realize that it's a one way street and no coming back.
If that ever happened, it would never go to the finalist. Marseille were stripped off of their trophy when they played AC Milan in 1993. It wasn't awarded to AC Milan
And they were not stripped off their cup in 1993.
The football association in France took their league title because of the bribing scandal with Bernard Tapie being the main cheater, but UEFA still recognises Ol. Marseille as CL winner of 1993.

GangstaRiB
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door GangstaRiB » wo apr 21, 2021 6:46 pm

Amol schreef:
wo apr 21, 2021 3:39 pm
Only 2 left now - Madrid and Barca. Barca probably has no money to pay the fines for leaving and is also hiding behind the socios who had to vote on this anyway.

Perez probably staying back to collect fines from everyone and then close the shop down.

Next thing which should be struck down are some of the changes from the 2024 CL Access List/Procedures.
I reckon the Spanish sides and the Milan clubs as sad accomplishes of the greedy US owned PL clubs. Although AC Milan is owned by a US hedge fund. These clubs are heavily in debt and this was supposed to be their ticket to get out. The other clubs (PL and Juve) have plenty of money but just wanted even more.

Read some good comments on the Glazer “apology” stating that they misunderstood the feelings in the UK. The Glazers own Man United since 2005.. they still don’t understand the feelings? :smallgrin.gif:

I have to say it is solely to the English fans that this plan went tits up so fast. There was no real opposition in Italy or Spain. The English fans did all the work, really great to see. Hopefully the UEFA and FIFA follow through with some real changes to the game!

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Amol
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door Amol » wo apr 21, 2021 7:14 pm

GangstaRiB schreef:
wo apr 21, 2021 6:46 pm
Amol schreef:
wo apr 21, 2021 3:39 pm
Only 2 left now - Madrid and Barca. Barca probably has no money to pay the fines for leaving and is also hiding behind the socios who had to vote on this anyway.

Perez probably staying back to collect fines from everyone and then close the shop down.

Next thing which should be struck down are some of the changes from the 2024 CL Access List/Procedures.
I reckon the Spanish sides and the Milan clubs as sad accomplishes of the greedy US owned PL clubs. Although AC Milan is owned by a US hedge fund. These clubs are heavily in debt and this was supposed to be their ticket to get out. The other clubs (PL and Juve) have plenty of money but just wanted even more.

Read some good comments on the Glazer “apology” stating that they misunderstood the feelings in the UK. The Glazers own Man United since 2005.. they still don’t understand the feelings? :smallgrin.gif:

I have to say it is solely to the English fans that this plan went tits up so fast. There was no real opposition in Italy or Spain. The English fans did all the work, really great to see. Hopefully the UEFA and FIFA follow through with some real changes to the game!
Absolutely agreed - fans went into full riot mode. According to an article I read, Ajax was asked and we said no. They probably were talking about this for years, but the final plan seemed like it was put together overnight -
- 12 clubs which are permanent
- no explanation of how those 12 were chosen
- another 3 permanent members will be added somehow
- somehow 5 would be picked and added on a rotation basis
- games played all over the world

It was a total misread of the amount of hate which the grassroots English fans have for the American owners (Liverpool, Arsenal and ManUre). Also didn't help that a massive American Bank was funding the whole thing.

SPL
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door SPL » do apr 22, 2021 12:24 pm

Also in England the Government said it would act by putting a hugh super tax on the clubs , no police at grounds and finally no work permits for the foreign players.
Fans really do hate the American owners as all they do is take money out the clubs and never come to games. Man City Arabs and Chelsea's dodgy Ruski do actually put their own money into those clubs.

UEFA proposals are not much better for the CL . Premier league and Sky both anti this super league but these 2 have destroyed football in England by their money.

I care for only 1 club and thats Ajax but even we need money to compete and the greed is getting to us. Brobbey wanting a fortune to stay and we are to pay Gabriel Misehouy,the 15 year old talent 400,000 euros a year for his first contact.

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Amol
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door Amol » do apr 22, 2021 3:17 pm

SPL schreef:
do apr 22, 2021 12:24 pm
Also in England the Government said it would act by putting a hugh super tax on the clubs , no police at grounds and finally no work permits for the foreign players.
Fans really do hate the American owners as all they do is take money out the clubs and never come to games. Man City Arabs and Chelsea's dodgy Ruski do actually put their own money into those clubs.

UEFA proposals are not much better for the CL . Premier league and Sky both anti this super league but these 2 have destroyed football in England by their money.

I care for only 1 club and thats Ajax but even we need money to compete and the greed is getting to us. Brobbey wanting a fortune to stay and we are to pay Gabriel Misehouy,the 15 year old talent 400,000 euros a year for his first contact.
If we want to truly compete against the top 10 in European football, we cannot ignore money. But I hope we watch closely and don't start spending more than we make over a long period of time.

We have done well with growing our brand over the past few years and monetizing that. You'll always your clubs which are supported by the oligarchs (Chelsea, Man City, PSG), TV money (EPL, Real and Barca) and the ones supported by Governments (Real and Barca). So we need to make sure we're at the top of our marketing game & youth development, since we don't have any of those 3 income streams.

GangstaRiB
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Re: General Football Discussion

Bericht door GangstaRiB » do apr 22, 2021 6:40 pm

What about this beauty:

“The global fan wants AFC v Barca as often as possible. English fans want to see more big matches, but you still want your cold nights in Stoke.”

That’s Kroenke speaking to Arsenal fans. :excited.gif:

Can I kick him in the arse?

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