General Football Discussion

[SE6Ajacied]

Nothing Ajax related but an intersting story about Bruce Rioch, who used to manage Arsenal amongst others in England.

From www.bbc.co.uk

"Rioch back in business
By Lewis Wiltshire

After four-and-a-half years out of club management, it is clear how much Bruce Rioch is relishing life in charge of Danish Superliga club Odense.

The 58-year-old, who took charge at Odense in June 2005, told BBC Sport: "I have found it to be a super place to live, a really good football club, a good environment in which to work.

"The climate so far has been magnificent - probably one of the best summers they've had here and even now the weather is mild.

"For an overall population of 5.5 million, Denmark produces some fantastic football players - it's a real hotbed. It's English speaking of course so the language barrier is not a problem and it's an hour-and-20 minutes flying time from the UK. I'm enjoying it immensely."

When Rioch was offered the job he did not have to go far for advice on life in Denmark - his son Gregor, despite being only 29, has been head coach at Koge since October 2004 and has led them to the top of the First Division table.

"It's great," said Rioch senior. "The two of us are about an hour-and-15 minutes from each other so we see each other once a week and we can compare notes about players in the two leagues."

Rioch's last post was at Wigan, but he left in controversial circumstances, after a dispute with chairman Dave Whelan.

At the time Wigan were fourth in what is now League One, battling for an automatic promotion spot, so his departure was a shock.

Even more of a surprise was the length of time it took Rioch to take another management job.

He turned down some offers from home and abroad, spent time scouting for friends in charge at other clubs, and watched plenty of games at Norwich, where he lived after a spell in charge there, and nearby Ipswich.

"I was looking forward to getting back into the game but there comes a point in your career when you have to try and make the right decision - pick the right club with the right people.

"In England it's someone willing to take the opportunity and say 'why don't you come and work for us?'. That happened a couple of times but not with the right people."

The right job at the right time finally cropped up in summer 2005 when Rioch was telephoned, out of the blue, by Steen Nedegaard, a Dane who played for Norwich after a previously one-club career with Odense.

Nedergaard never played under Rioch but the pair knew each other because of the ex-Canaries boss' close links with his old club.

"Steen is from Odense originally - this is his home-town club - and he rang me to say they were going to make a change, and would I be interested in coming across to talk to the directors?"

Rioch also consulted Thomas Helveg, the Denmark captain who comes from Odense and has spent time at Carrow Road, before accepting the job, where he finds himself in a Superliga dominated by FC Copenhagen and Brondby.

His main aim, when the Danish league recommences in March after a winter break, is to finish in the top four.

That would guarantee Odense, or OB (Odense Boldklub), a place in the Royal League, which runs from November to May and features the top four in Denmark playing against the best four from Sweden and Norway.

OB will not play in the Royal League which starts this month because they finished sixth in Denmark last term, before Rioch's arrival.

That means he must fill this winter organising warm-weather training camps in Turkey or Spain, when he would rather be pitting his wits against the likes of Valerenga, Gothenburg and Oslo.

"It's a football club that needs a little bit more direction because we're having to compete, like most other clubs in other leagues in Europe, against the big two, Copenhagen and Brondby.

"Trying to compete with them off the pitch is impossible - they are too big, too strong. They are in Europe every year, either the Champions League or Uefa Cup, they generate the most money and buy the best players.

"But on a given day hopefully we can compete with those two - we've been to Copenhagen this season and drawn 1-1, but we lost at home to them 2-0 and we lost at home to Brondby 3-1.

"They're just a bit too powerful for us at the moment in overall terms, but that's the challenge and it's a great challenge."

Bruce Rioch has met challenges wherever he has worked. Few would bet against him doing it again.

RIOCH FACTFILE
Playing career: Luton, Aston Villa, Everton, Derby, Torquay
International: Scotland, 24 caps
Management: Torquay, Middlesbrough, Bolton, Arsenal, Norwich, Wigan "

[roche]

After seeing the highlights of what happened in Istanbul, I got to wondering. Is Turkey the scariest place to play? And what is it like as a visiting fan?

[aveslacker]

After seeing the highlights of what happened in Istanbul, I got to wondering. Is Turkey the scariest place to play? And what is it like as a visiting fan?

From my time living in Europe, the word on the street was the the Turkish fans were the most hardcore, followed by the Greeks, fans from the Balkan countries, and then Italy (at least in the top flight of each league). While I've never seen a game in turkey, I went to the Panathinaikos-Olympiakos (the biggest Greek match) derby twice while in Greece and have to say that the atmosphere was unreal -- more intense than Ajax-PSV. Twas a good time. :yes:

[mick]

can someone please tell me about clarence seedorf?? i am a player from the states, and seedorf has been one of my favorite players for over ten years now. Why in God's name is he not on the Dutch side? I guess that there must be some issues with his personality. Is he a trouble maker in the dressing room? Also, what happened to Seedorf and Davids during the Euro Championships in England? Seedorf was benched for a game that they ended up getting eliminated in. During that game he was brought in for about the last ten minutes of the match, covered every blade of grass on the pitch twice, and almost won the game for the Dutch. He ended up missing a penalty in the shootout. Did he and Davids go to the press about a disagreement with the manager when there was an agreement that no players would go to the press? Anyway, someone please fill me in on the history of Seedorf, as there aren't many Dutch football fans in Detroit.

[SPL]

George Best died today.

I hope all papers remember him as a footballing genius. I hate Man U and everything it stands for but having watched football for over 40 years even I have to admit the most gifted and brilliant footballer I have ever seen was George Best. A genius and a magician with a ball.

I hope he now rests in peace. Thanks for the football memories .You were called BEST and when it came to football you were the Best.


PS I have always thought this way about him and not just saying it now that he is dead..

[Ayman]

Its official, George Best is Brown Bread, Roast in hell Georgie lol, only kidding. Anyway he wasnt as great as Johan Cruyff so dont go over the top SPL, Jesus...........

[aveslacker]

RIP George. Beauty is timeless, just like your contribution to the beautiful game.

[SE6Ajacied]

Anyway he wasnt as great as Johan Cruyff so dont go over the top SPL, Jesus...........

Well that's not what Pele said!

I'm not really casting an opinion either way but either one coming second to the other isn't a bad result.

Anyway, as I read in The Guardian today, he deserves to be remembered witha ball at his feet rather than a bottle in his hand so rest in peace George, the TV today was full of people saying what a nice guy he was, always time for an autograph etc and I'm sure they weren't just because he was dead...hope that's not too OTT

[Manneken Pis]

Interesting article from the chairman at Crystal Palace in England.
I have a suspicion that we could do with a little culture change at Ajax...


Untouchables need a short, sharp shock

Simon Jordan
Sunday November 27, 2005
The Observer

There are two things you don't do with a player who you think is about to lose it in public. One, you don't interview him on your in-house corporate TV station. Two, if you mess up point one, you don't then try to suppress his comments, bury the tape and convince yourself it won't be leaked, or that the player will love you for it.
United's handling of Roy Keane nine days ago was, however you look at it, painful - a PR disaster, the loss of their captain for no fee, a compensation deal, an exposed manager left more exposed, angry fans left more galvanised. Trying to call it all 'mutual consent' as an after-thought was a nice touch. What must really hurt, though, is knowing that it wasn't just the PR that United messed up. The ultimate responsibility for Keane's behaviour lies with them too.


Article continues

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Why? The bulk of Keane's headline 'outbursts' over the years have been valid - prawn sandwiches, hitting back with conviction at Mick McCarthy in Saipan. But if you want to know the man, more revealing is his book: 'I'd waited long enough for Alf Inge Haaland. I fucking hit him hard - take that, you cunt'. Brilliant player, but isn't he just another man-child who can't take criticism? Someone who lives as an untouchable, working without boundaries, without restraint. And it's United, with their reverence, who made him that way.
When I arrived at Palace five years ago, the place was flooded with the same attitude. Players had no respect, no one to answer to, no framework. They weren't making big headlines, but they were doing a lot worse than criticising the club on subscription TV. They lived and worked by the playschool ethic: how many liberties can you take?

Palace's liberty culture before I took over and just after was almost mesmerising. One player nicked the club's training kit and sold it on. Neil Ruddock took the team out and got them wasted when we were fighting relegation. A married player on £6,000 a week put his extra-marital condoms on club expenses. We signed one player on £10,000 a week who claimed conveyancing expenses of £8,000 and used it to have a house in London he already owned made over. Players taking the piss left right and centre because that was the culture: do what you like, you're a footballer. And it's that attitude that is the source of 99 per cent of football indiscipline, big incidents and small. It creates and sustains problem players.

Craig Bellamy is the best recent example of the top end of liberty culture. I was asked at the time how I'd handle a player doing what he did to Newcastle, behaving as he did towards his manager, and I said what I honestly felt: I'd strangle him with his own tongue. But he was behaving that way purely because, with respect to Bobby Robson, he'd been allowed to turn into this imbecilic little gobshite over a period of four years. It took a strong man manager, Graeme Souness, to stand up to him and bring things to a head.

But the Bellamy case also illustrates the problem chairmen face with player discipline. Bellamy wasn't sacked, he was fined, frozen out, loaned out, then sold. I'm sure Freddy Shepherd would love to have just sacrificed him with a blunt knife and sod the consequences, but can you do that to a £5m asset on £40,000 a week who is protected by the size of his contract, by his compensation clause? Football doesn't recognise compensation-free 'gross misconduct'.

Three years ago I sacked our midfielder Jamie Pollock for being overweight. We signed him on a good contract at one weight, then he settled on another. He was called in for weigh-ins every week, and every time he wasn't on target he was fined. We constituted those as verbal warnings. He got three of them, then a written one, then he was dismissed. And that's when the PFA stepped in, and a tribunal reinstated him twice. It ended up with us having to pay someone who had committed gross misconduct to leave. Real-world employers must look on open-mouthed.

The problem isn't just sitting there untouched - clubs are working on a system of legally tight rules that define your rights as an employer - but unless those rules are standardised by the FA it's a legal nonsense. And sometimes clubs don't help either. Chelsea sacked Adrian Mutu for gross misconduct - great. Then they demanded £9m for him.

The wider issue, though, is addressing the source of the problem: the over-protection of players through weak management and nannying.

Last April a Fulham player liaison officer told the papers about some of his tasks. He said he'd been called out to Alain Goma's house because 'Goma's goldfish was swimming in the wrong direction'. He'd been called to rescue a player lost on the London Underground ('he was helpless'). He'd been called out by Fabrice Fernandes who kept waking up in the morning with a wet head, and discovered the player had been 'sleeping by an open window'.

Yes, Palace look after our players, in that we help with language coaching, relocation and, if required, financial management for young players on big salaries. But we don't mollycoddle them, change their pants or sort out bent goldfish.

We're talking about adults here. How is it helping grown men to treat them in the way so many clubs still do? It's hammered into them from the start. I've heard academy directors using the phrase 'a child's life is like an open book - you write a new page every day'. That says it all. Kids don't learn from spoon-feeding, hand-holding. Christ, they're not even allowed to clean boots now by the PFA unless they're wearing Marigolds. How do clubs think they're helping by raising boys like this, then letting them behave like spoilt toddlers or individual world super-powers once they're 'grown up'?

But it's important to point out what can be achieved once you've acknowledged the problem. I'm not saying Palace is perfect, but the squad we have now is the best I've worked with in terms of dedication, commitment and discipline. The reason is simple: we've worked on building a different culture, and I now have a first-rate manager with staff who demand, deserve and get total respect.

How much have things changed? In October 2000 I put Clinton Morrison and two others on the transfer list over their attitude and behaviour. He's subsequently become one of the best pros I've employed. I was delighted to re-sign him. He still hangs on his rude-boy image - when he leaves the room you know he's left the room - but he's a great trainer, a good influence, a good ambassador. Andrew Johnson, Emmerson Boyce, Tony Popovic and others are real examples to our academy kids, as is Aki Riihilahti, a ridiculous person in the best possible way - committed, brilliant work ethic, bit bonkers and totally engaging. They respect their club, their colleagues and their responsibilities.

So what is the future - more Bellamys or more Akis? It depends on who's producing them. Ours is one of the academies that takes education seriously. I'm proud we have some of the best GCSE results of any academy in the country, and that we prepare these boys for life. We want to produce rounded men, players with the drive to match Keane and Bellamy technically, but players who understand obligations, can take criticism, can see the bigger picture.

A football club - every level of it - is built on four things: discipline, hard work, ambition and respect. What United did in giving up on Keane, what Newcastle did in ditching Bellamy, was acknowledge, belatedly, that formula. Without those ingredients - and Keane once had all four - individual talent counts for nothing.

[Sir Alex Ferguson]

Ah yes that great footbal impressario and successful Chairman Simon Jordon. Loved by so many and held in such high regard by his Championship colleagues. Not as if he has ever done any of his dirties in public eh??

I accept it could have been handled better but when two strong and talented ego's meet sometimes things dont turn out as you would like.Still Simon has never really had to manage strong and talented personalities has he at Sell -hurst Park.

And just remember all is going well for Palace this season.

[Over Pasanens Head]

Ah yes that great footbal impressario and successful Chairman Simon Jordon. Loved by so many and held in such high regard by his Championship colleagues. Not as if he has ever done any of his dirties in public eh??

I accept it could have been handled better but when two strong and talented ego's meet sometimes things dont turn out as you would like.Still Simon has never really had to manage strong and talented personalities has he at Sell -hurst Park.

And just remember all is going well for Palace this season.

Well, well, well, not only does SAF talk a load of crap about Ajax, his skills in this department also stretch to Palace. Maybe he should be worried about his beloved ManUre than frequenting these boards.
Where and when will he strike next.

[Manneken Pis]

Well, well, well, not only does SAF talk a load of crap about Ajax, his skills in this department also stretch to Palace. Maybe he should be worried about his beloved ManUre than frequenting these boards.
Where and when will he strike next.

Don't bite OPH!
Don't bite!!!

:X

[English Eagle]

I could be a lot stronger OPH,especially as the word SELL was used(USA,USA,USA)by a Man U supporter.Simon's articles this season have been superb & the bloke speaks so much sense at times it is scary.I dont know if you can read all the articles via the Observer website but you can almost certainly find them via Palace's BBS . . .www.cpfc.org

[SE6Ajacied]

Well I'm no big Palace fan but Jordan does talk a lot of sense at times and like his namaesake, SAF tends to talk a load of bull (that's the polite version).

Perhaps it's precisely because Jordan speaks out that he is so popular with his fellow chairmen. The other point to note is that comparing (relative) success for Palace and a team like MoanU is a no brainer.

And I thought my 300th post would be a bit more meaningfull than this :nooo:

[English Eagle]

I dont know SE6,i thought it was pretty good. :xyxthumbs:

[Manneken Pis]

This is an interesting strategy......


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GILLINGHAM-FC-TEA ... dZViewItem


;)

[SE6Ajacied]

This is an interesting strategy......


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GILLINGHAM-FC-TEA ... dZViewItem


;)

Perhaps we should try it, can we try and sell the board instead?

[SE6Ajacied]

From bbc website

"Real Madrid sack coach Luxemburgo

Real Madrid sacked coach Wanderley Luxemburgo following an emergency meeting of the club's board on Sunday.

The 53-year-old Brazilian, who was Real's fifth coach in the space of two and a half years, had been in charge of the team for just over 11 months.

Reserve team manager Juan Ramon Lopez Caro has taken over as caretaker boss.

A club statement said: "Luxemburgo will not continue as Real Madrid coach. The club has already been in contact with captain Raul to break the news."

The club reportedly held initial talks immediately after Saturday's 1-0 win over Getafe, which was the club's first victory in three league games.

It is believed Luxemburgo did not take the team's training session on Sunday.

Cadena Ser radio and Antena 3 television speculated that the 53-year-old had already been told by club vice-president Emilio Butragueno and sporting director Arrigo Sacchi that he had lost his job.

Former Brazil coach Luxemburgo, who has been at the Bernabeu for less than a year, has been under huge pressure since the tame 3-0 home defeat to arch-rivals Barcelona.

Real followed that by salvaging a 2-2 draw at Real Sociedad with two late goals before the home victory over Getafe - a result overshadowed by David Beckham's third red card in two months.

They have qualified for the knockout stages of the Champions League but are unable to overhaul Lyon as Group F winners and will go into the second-round draw among the second-ranked teams. "

oops :D

[ZoefdeHaas]

Let's hope Van Gaal jumps at the chance to return to Spain :D

[Blind3]

He's got more sense,I think. That is, unless Louis has been on a year long bender and killed off every brain cell he's got. You've got to have one hell of an ego and no common sense to want to take that job.

[SPL]

The highlight of last night was Cowman's team beating the Scum. I can esure you all that Benfica are the toast of football in England today.

[Blind3]

Definitely sets up the potential for a couple great draws down the road. For example, if Liverpool and Olympique Lyon go thru next round,Houllier could get a return ticket to Anfield.Or if Inter win, perhaps a Figo return to Santiago Bernabeu or Camp Nou.Or Aax...Fog Game II v. Liverpool..40 years on. Whatever happens, just glad Ajax will have get to add a little European color to an otherwise drab, to date, season.

[Venezuelan Ajacied]

Definitely sets up the potential for a couple great draws down the road. For example, if Liverpool and Olympique Lyon go thru next round,Houllier could get a return ticket to Anfield.Or if Inter win, perhaps a Figo return to Santiago Bernabeu or Camp Nou.Or Aax...Fog Game II v. Liverpool..40 years on. Whatever happens, just glad Ajax will have get to add a little European color to an otherwise drab, to date, season.

Hey with a little luck we can even have the chance to kick Mr Cowman's team butt, that would be sweet :headbang: .

Then again i dont think we'll get past this round :sad:.

I'll step down from my cloud now.

[Manneken Pis]

According to Voetbal International beacause of all the restrictions to ensure there are no same country ties (*), PeeSV and Ajax are most likely to face Barça and Villareal (not necesarily in that order. PeeSV may also get the Arse.

I hope it's Vilareal and we go out fighting.
Barça on current form could be really embarrasing.........



(*) which is bollocks anyway, and shows once again how football has sold it's soul for the mighty $)

[Ayman]

Hi guys! 2 days ago I met the Ajax board on the train in central london, they were Maarten Fontein, Jeoron Slop and a guy called Henricks, I didnt believe who they said they were at first until they showed me their passports, Jeroen joked saying ' are you from the MI5' , I asked Fontein to take my number or my email, he offered me his autograph, I opted for a complimentary card, so he and Jeroen Slop gave me their cards, and guess what, Fonteins card had his mobile number on it in writing, I texted him, telling him who I am, how we met and how I got his number, but im not so optimistic about him being keen on keeping in contact with me, since it seems that he is 'royalty' or as close as you can get to being one.
What do you guys think