2005-2006: Ajax Formation & Starting Eleven

[Over Pasanens Head]

Now this is getting very interesting in that we have 2 versions of stage 3. I can feel a decision tree exercise coming on here.
I like Ko's plan as it appears to fit in with my thoughts on life. However, for long term happiness I still believe that Philipes stage 3 is vitally important.

[Antwanvanderstap]

Hmmm drinking lots of beer and bitching about the results...are u sure u are not DUTCH hehhe

[Over Pasanens Head]

Hmmm drinking lots of beer and bitching about the results...are u sure u are not DUTCH hehhe

Not that my parents ever mentioned but I have always thought it strange that I didn't have a head for heights and was always happier when at sea-level or below.

[SE6Ajacied]

And make Anastasiou team-Manager.

:bis: :headbang: :cheer: ;) ......didn't even have Yannis coming on last night to cheer

[Over Pasanens Head]

After yesterday's game i find myself agreeing with Pizza 5 - we must go 3-5-2 as the players we have just are not good enough for the good old traditional 4-3-3.

3-5-2 It Is Then

[bryan]

...................................Lobont
........................Grygera..........Escude
Trabelsi.....................................................Juanfran
..............................Lindenbergh
................Galasek......Pienaar.......Maduro
.......................Harry...............Babel

[Over Pasanens Head]

Ajax are far too one paced at the moment - unfortunately for us it is a slow pace and one which will not unlock to many defences.

My selection would be:-

Vonk

Trabelsi
Grygera
Escude

Rosales
Pienaar
Galasek
Sneijder
Juanfran

Rosenberg
Charisteas

[bryan]

I don't know if Trabelsi belongs in a back three.

[Venezuelan Ajacied]

I don't know if Trabelsi belongs in a back three.

True and i dont think juanfran is ofensive enough to play a wide midifield position. Ad Bouhkari or even Emanuelson on the left and play trabelsi for Rosales at the right( he plays the exact same position for Tunisia). Trabelsi right now is one of are best players. Heitinga or de De Jong can fill the third defensive spot.

Charisteas instead of Babel ???? you got to be kidding.

[Over Pasanens Head]

Trabelsi right now is one of are best players. Heitinga or de De Jong can fill the third defensive spot.

Charisteas instead of Babel ???? you got to be kidding.

No problem with Trabelsi instead of Rosales - its just a couple of years ago he stated he didn't wish to play that position. If that happens then I would play Maduro in the back 3. I just do not rate De Jong.
I have a problem with any team that includes Rubber-Legs - no way, but Urby no problem with but would still prefer Juanfran (or Maxwell upon his return).

As to Charisteas or Babel - no I am not kidding in the short term. Long term Babel will be the main man but his ball control and movement in such a congested area is currently not as good as Charisteas.- Babel will probably score more goals but I think that Charisteas is the better link man for the team. Personally I believe that at the moment neither of them are that hot but Charisteas just wins my vote.

[Per]

I agree with OPH's lineup with the exception that I think a healthy de Jong should star instead of Pienaar.

And I also agree (scary isn't it?) that the current team is more fit for a 3-5-2 lineup than a 4-3-3. In my opinion it comes down to not having good midfielders enough. There is so much pressure put on the three in the middle that often need to do a four man job on the three of them. Then you can't settle for so and so performances. You need to be top notch the full 90 minutes of every game to make the 4-3-3 work.

[Kowalczyk]

Check this little write-up from Reuters... (I also put it up as a news link on Ajax USA).

http://au.sports.yahoo.com/050907/3/8qjw.html

It's a nice little read, but I can't say I'm too impressed. Nothing special. It's just a quick summary of the situation. Not an article with too much of a structure or a 'thought'. Oh well, it'll do as a quick 'Ajax snack', won't it?

Edit: Getting a bit tired of the word 'inexperienced', by the way... Blind keeps using it and it pops up in the media as well. We're not too 'inexperienced' for European success; we're not good enough for European success. That's a different thing. Not much of a problem (Ajax is my club and always will be), but let's face it: quality is the problem, not experience.

K.

[DanK]

Edit: Getting a bit tired of the word 'inexperienced', by the way... Blind keeps using it and it pops up in the media as well. We're not too 'inexperienced' for European success; we're not good enough for European success. That's a different thing. Not much of a problem (Ajax is my club and always will be), but let's face it: quality is the problem, not experience.

K.

Yep...for a start doesn't playing for your country count as "experience"?

Were the 95 generation any more experienced than this one?

Didn't 85% of these players get to the 1/4 finals of European Champs League a few years ago?

[Philippe]

Getting a bit tired of the word 'inexperienced', by the way... Blind keeps using it and it pops up in the media as well. We're not too 'inexperienced' for European success; we're not good enough
K.

I am not a bit tired but sick of hearing this learning-process-football-school-like rubbish.

[Kowalczyk]

Were the 95 generation any more experienced than this one?

For the record... The Class of '95 did have (slightly) older players at key positions. The De Boers were 24 when the campaign started, Litmanen 23 and the central defenders, Rijkaard and Blind, were well over 30.

But you definitely have a point: Finidi was 23, Reiziger, Overmars and Davids were 21 at the start of the campaign and turned 22 during the season. Kluivert, Kanu and Seedorf were 18.

You could say that Maduro (20) and Babel (19) are today's Seedorf and Kluivert. Pienaar is now 23 (Litmanen's age). Trabelsi is 28, which is considerably older than Reiziger or the De Boers at the time. De Jong is 20, Heitinga 21, which is hardly younger than Davids or Overmars at the time (they were 21 when the campaign started in the fall of 1994).

Also, I might add that many of today's Ajax players have played in three editions of the Champions League in a row, which was definitely not the case for the Ajacieden of 1995. For them it was their début on the international stage, pretty much. As football players, today's Ajax crop is (or: should be) at least as mature as the crop of '95, with the exception of Blind and Rijkaard, the father figures of the group and two supreme leaders. They were extremely, extremely important. Their presence was the key difference with today's team, perhaps.

I am not saying that today's Ajax team shoud win the Champions League, but I am saying that they should - reasonably - be able to more or less live up their potential by now. In other words: we should not expect too much improvement anymore. The key players on this team are just about mature as football players. As disappointing as it may be: I am afraid that this is it. This is what they can do. This is as good as we are.

K.

[Over Pasanens Head]

I am afraid that this is it. This is what they can do.

K.

Amen Brother Ko - 100% correct.

What I have noted from following Ajax all of these years is the following recurring pattern:-

(1) a fantastic team that sweeps all before it

(2) the fantastic team breaks up and we are faced with a poor team (it appears even worse because it follows point 1)

(3) we have a false dawn where the team appears to be on its way to greatness again but for one reason or another fails to reach its potential

(4) a fantastic team that sweeps all before it.

I would like to think we are at the tail end of point 3, but I am not at all comforted by the news coming out of the Young Ajax camp.

[Frans]

Were the 95 generation any more experienced than this one?

For the record... The Class of '95 did have (slightly) older players at key positions. The De Boers were 24 when the campaign started, Litmanen 23 and the central defenders, Rijkaard and Blind, were well over 30.

...

I am not saying that today's Ajax team shoud win the Champions League, but I am saying that they should - reasonably - be able to more or less live up their potential by now. In other words: we should not expect too much improvement anymore. The key players on this team are just about mature as football players. As disappointing as it may be: I am afraid that this is it. This is what they can do. This is as good as we are.

K.

And how long have/had the respective coaches been at the helm?

[pizza 5]

We should start playing to the strengths of the players we currently have in our squad.We dont have the class of 95,we have Boukari,Yannis and (God help us) Rosales.4-3-3 will not work for these players.Im sick of saying it but.....3fuckin5fuckin2.


I know what Im talkin about,Iv listened to Sven.

[Sir Alex Ferguson]

Pizza 5 how wise you are and I applaud an original point well made. I believe we have a ready made replacement for Mr D Blind should the fateful day ever come. A manager who consistently plays to a formation rather than to the strengths of the individuals almost with a complete disregard for the depth of talent that could be available on the pitch if he showed some common sense and flexible thinking.

All you Arena boys give it up for your next coach-Sven Goran Eriksson-Well good luck.

[Philippe]

We are Ajax. So our ultimate goal is to play and win with the 4-3-3 system. Simple.

[carcajou]

We are Ajax. So our ultimate goal is to play and win with the 4-3-3 system. Simple.

This team is shit. I'm now convinced that we are currently in a generation gap.

We have only one top notch defender namely Looney Tune Hatem Trabelsi, our midfield is ... average and I won't say anything about the strikers and wingers. Either injured or not good enough, they are a disappointment.

One could say that we lost Maxwell, but Emmanuelson is a very good alternative. Last season was shit, and I have the feeling that this one won't be better.

Man, I wish we had a Jaap Stam or the likes of him in our team. The kind of defender that says : "Don't mess with me I never bluff" with a serial killer look in the eyes and that gives the opponent strikers diarrhea.

Last but not least I'd trade our average (Charisteas, Rosenberg, Babel) or shit (Anastasiou) strikers against a young and talented Brazilian that could score 25 goals a season.

I'm getting tired. I'm going to come for Roda and Arsenal and I'm 75% sure that I'll come back home with (more) painful memories. That sucks.

[Philippe]

Take it easy and relax.

Life is full of surprises ...

[SE6Ajacied]

or shit (Anastasiou) I'm going to come for Arsenal

Well Carcajou, I'm coming for the Arsenal game too and we must have words about your negative-hostile attitude :nooo:

Yannis hasn't even got a subs appearence this season and with that carthorse Rosenberg up front I think he deserves at least that!

[cdnajaxfan]

We should use either a 4-4-2 most of the time or a 4-3-3 when necessary. 3 people on defence is a recipe for disaster. If you do not believe me, just remember Koeman's experiment in Munich against Bayern. I like having 2 strikers though so my preference is for 4-4-2. Also, we are hurting on wingers right now so 4-4-2 is better.

We are in trouble. We will only have a maximum of 9 points after the rescheduled Den Haag game. Even more worrying, we have 3 strikers who can't score and one who just sits on the bench (Yannis). Wesley Sneijder has always been my boy but he can't carry this team single handedly. He has scored the last 3 goals that Ajax have scored. He is the key and it angers me every time I see him on the bench.

First off, Babel does not impress me as a striker. He has poor ball control for finishing. He would make a better midfielder. I noticed that watching him practice and in game play.

Rosenberg needs some time in the reserve team. He is not ready for the starting 11 yet, IMO. He needs to learn the system a little better.

I don't know why Charisteas is not doing as well as I thought he would. He has been better than Babel so far this year though.

Time to put Yannis out and get him off the bench! He can't do any worse than the rest and he is a positive influence on the players.

We had better do something soon or it may be tough for us to qualify for the UEFA cup!

[SE6Ajacied]

and one who just sits on the bench (Yannis).

Time to put Yannis out and get him off the bench! He can't do any worse than the rest and he is a positive influence on the players.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think he's even made the bench this season - last seen in the photographers pit in his suit against Brondby.

This really astounds me. I'm a big fan (in case you'd not guessed) but even I can see he won't start every game but I just can't understand why he's not on the bench.....Blind just positively made a decision to resign him for another year so why not play him?