Players Leaving Ajax

[Frans]

An employee has a right not to renew his contract,

The coach has the right to not select a player. Frankly I agree with the board on this one.

If you think this is harsh, look at Iaquinta at Udinese, dropped for not re-signing when he still had 2 years left on his contract.

[Manneken Pis]

I think what the club is doing is fucking disgusting and probably illegal.

Bollocks (with all due respect).

They haven't stopped paying these people or taken away any of their employee benefits as stated in their conrtacts (I assume).

They have every right to decide which employees to put on the pitch in order to optimalize the performance of the overall team. This is management's right, and should always stay so.

What are you suggesting? The kid's should run the candy store? The players decide who's playing?


Having said that....this situation has come about because of management incompetence in the first place (as you pointed out), because their lack of rigeur led to the contracts not being renewed/or players sold at the right time.

I'm not a big fan of the board either, but on this decision in these circumstances (of their own making) I agree with them.....

[Rubin Stark]

I hope this is a media beat-up.

If not, what does this mean for a junior player who could replace Trabelsi, Pienaar or de Jong? The message is: you are not being rewarded for playing out of your skin; you are replacing players because of our arrogance. Not a textbook method of motivation.

It does put Blind in a difficult situation, being advised against selecting certain players. I'm tipping him to be as bald as a cucumber by October next year.

[ZoefdeHaas]

Cmon guys dont make this into a hu-lah. The board has made its decision and obviously the players would be somewhat dissapointed, especially Trabelsi who was hoping to end on a high note.

But the board knows that we're in a transition, and to start a new bright era (hopefully) they need to start ahead without the guys that won't feature.

[bryan]

Bollocks (with all due respect).

They haven't stopped paying these people or taken away any of their employee benefits as stated in their conrtacts (I assume).

It's workplace discrimination. It's like my boss telling me to come in to work every day, but sitting me in a room with nothing to do just to spite me because I won't sign a new contract. It's childish.

All this does is create bad vibes within the squad.

Pienaar wanted to sign on last season, but the board were being cheapskates at the time. Basically it's their own fault. They should grow up and learn how to run a football club properly.

If I was Pienaar I'd probably do a Bogarde. Reject all transfer offers during the winter break, be very professional, show up to training every day and leave on a free in the summer. Seriously, if the Ajax board did this to me then it would motivate me to make sure they didn't get a penny for me in transfer money.

[bryan]

But the board knows that we're in a transition, and to start a new bright era (hopefully) they need to start ahead without the guys that won't feature.

I don't agree with this "build for the future" attitude that seems to be used as an excuse for postponing success every season. We are in the final 16 of the Champions League and Nigel de Jong, Trabelsi and Pienaar are three of our best players. From a sporting point of view it's a stupid decision, and it could be a financially stupid decision too, when one takes into account how important Champions League money is.

This is just the board being childish.

[Kowalczyk]

Hello everyone... :hypocrite:

Before I give you my two cents, let me start by saying that this whole story was something that Tom Egbers of Studio Sport said on TV. Ajax reacted immediately by denying the whole story. According to the club it's all complete bollocks. Martin van Geel said: "Nonsense. As if we're even in the position to ban three of our best players from the squad..."

So the whole dicussion you're having is hypothetical.

Having said that, there's nothing wrong with hypothetical discussions, so here goes...

I think we're talking about two different situations here: I have a different opinion about Pienaar/Maxwell/Trabelsi than about De Jong.

The first three are foreigners. Holland is not their country, Ajax is not their club. They're just here for a few seasons and then they move on. All three of these chaps have played for Ajax for about four seasons. Which is long enough. Now they want to move on and therefore they have decided not to renew their deals, to give their best until their contracts expire and then move on to a new club.

They have the right to do that, both legally (just check the law) and 'morally', because they've been great Ajacieden for about four full seasons. They have nothing to explain.

If Ajax would ban them, it would be a complete f*cking disgrace and also an extremely stupid thing to do. It should be possible to shake hands, thank each other for the good times and wish each other good luck. Fair enough. Thank you Hatem, Steven and Maxwell. It was good having you. Have a great career! If Ajax ban it would eseentially mean that it is impossible for a player to leave Ajax in peace: you will either be sold for a big fee (Zlatan, Chivu) or you will end up on the stands as a 'penalty' for not signing a new deal. That would make Ajax a very evil employer and it would certainly turn against us.

Okay -- now let's take a look at the exception to the rule: Mr. Nigel de Jong.

This dude is from our own youth system. Ajax created him as a football player and he's always been an extremely popular player, who kissed the logo after he scored and always underscored that he's a true Amsterdammer and a true Ajacied.

Very charming, but let's face it: this kid has played for Ajax-1 for about three meagre seasons, and now he's already thinking about f*cking off. How much of an Ajacied are you really, Nigel? This bloke is about to 'do a Clarence Seedorf' on us, namely: showing himself to the world in Ajax-1 and then say yes to the very first rich club that shows up (in this case probably Man Utd). I have no respect for that, whatsoever.

SPL is right: Ajax should have renewed his deal last season, but the fact is that they didn't and that Martin van Geel (the new guy) is now responsible for cleaning up the mess. All that Van Geel asked from Nigel was to be reasonable and to inform the club about his decision by December 1st. But what does Mr De Jong do...? He's just trying to win time, he's waiting for Man Utd to make the move. If they don't he can always sign for Ajax.

Other than in the Trabelsi/Maxwell/Pienaar case I would completely be on Ajax's side in De Jong's case. Trabelsi, Maxwell and Pienaar have been honest: they will not sign. De Jong is basically playing a game with the club he loves so much (yeah, right) and I completely understand that Ajax refuse to sit in the waiting room for as long as Mr De Jong is waiting for Man United to show up.

In all four cases: the legal aspect of this affair is not very interesting. De Jong has the right (legally) not to renew his deal, and Ajax have the right to leave them out of the team.

This is not a legal issue; it's a moral issue. And that's exactly why I think De Jong's case is slightly different.

K.

[Kowalczyk]

I don't agree with this "build for the future" attitude that seems to be used as an excuse for postponing success every season.

This is very true, by the way. Very well put.

Fuck that.

K.

[bryan]

So they aren't doing it after all. Fair enough.

But didn't they threaten to do this to somebody before? Was it Shota Arveladze?

[Venezuelan Ajacied]

This stuff is quite common in today's football world, somebody already gave the example of Laquinta and if i'm not mistaken i remember players like Beckham and Owen sitting on the bench of their former club (Man U, Liverpool) just before being transfered to Real Madrid. Their are roumours about this same scenario in Munich with Michael Ballack. So it's quite common and like K say's its a fucking disgrace :pukey: real lack of class for whatever club does that.

On the De Jong matter i agree once again with K the kid is really arrogant and a total nutcase, this decision can cost him he still has a lot of unfullfilled potential and should agree to at least a two year extension, he's decision problably has something to do with the fact that Pienaar is also leaving, hell they should tatoo each other's name on their bodies and buy a room together in Manchester.

Now for the rest off the chaps

We all know Trabelsi has been wanting to leave for some time now, he has waited until his contract ends to leave and other than the famous "Arsenal Affair" he has been a good sport. Maxwell would not even be here had he not gotten injured last seasonn we all knew he was on the way out the sad part is not him leaving, it's not getting some $ for such a fine player.Pienaar has also served Ajax well and he has gotten to a point where at least i dont think he can get any better what we see of him is problably what he'll always be, he has never been a troublemaker, the board fuck'ed up on his case (How strange :nooo: ).

I hope all the news is pure bollocks and that De Jong reconsiders it's the best for him and "his" supposed club.

[SPL]

De Jong will not get alot of playing time if he joins Moan U. They are obviously going to buy some better mid fielders in the summer but have said that they will buy a couple of players in January just to make their numbers up. DeJong will be a bit part player and this wont do his career any good.He needs to stay here for another couple of years but I feel he will go this winter.

In a couple of years time he will get fed up with sitting on the bench at Moan U and join some team like Birmingham or Midddlesbrough.

Sadly like so many young promising players he is only interested in money.

[SE6Ajacied]

I think what the club is doing is fucking disgusting and probably illegal.

.

Well, I'm a trade union rep by trade so know a bit about (UK) employment law. Nothing wrong in what Ajax are doing at all. It's not like they're proposing to terminate contracts or pay people at a reduced rate. These guys will earn handsomely for sitting around doing not very much. If what you're suggesting is true then why haven't Anastasiou, Heitinga, Vonk, Lobont etc etc etc been to court to demand their place in the team back.

I say good on Ajax. These guys are pulling a legalised con on Ajax by proposing to leave on a Bosman for nothing at the end of the season...let Ajax get their own back. The team should comprise of players who want to play for Ajax and put their all into it (why do you think I'm such an Anastasiou fan?)

[SE6Ajacied]

I've just read the rest of the posts (I'd only got down as far as Bryan's when I posted the above). I have to say that though I partially agree with Ko regarding differences between De Jog and the other three, to a certain extent there are more similarities than differences. I know Trabelsi is older but to a large extent, all three foreign players were unknown before they signed for and played for Ajax. In that way we have just as much built them up to what they are now as we have De Jong.

I'm not in any way sticking up for De Jong as agree with what's been said, I just would put all four in the same mould and not single out DJ for special condemnation just because he is Dutch and is supposed to be in some way less mercenary than the others.

[jakobg]

I'm not in any way sticking up for De Jong as agree with what's been said, I just would put all four in the same mould and not single out DJ for special condemnation just because he is Dutch and is supposed to be in some way less mercenary than the others.

The difference is, as Ko said already, that the three others probably saw Ajax as a step in their careers, it's not the club in their hearts (well, it probably wasn't when they arrived). They've been here and helped the team a lot, and if they'd like to move it's okay.

De Jong on the other hand is an Amsterdammer with Ajax in his heart. That should mean more than a few dollars more in his wallet. He is talented and knows it. His time will come. He should realize that there are many advantages in staying at Ajax: he'll be more loved by the fans, he'll probably be paid more in a few years as he moves on, he'll be bought as a man for the starting eleven in whatever club he moves to. And so on. If he moves now... well, yeah, you get the point.

[SE6Ajacied]

I'm not in any way sticking up for De Jong as agree with what's been said, I just would put all four in the same mould and not single out DJ for special condemnation just because he is Dutch and is supposed to be in some way less mercenary than the others.

The difference is, as Ko said already, that the three others probably saw Ajax as a step in their careers, it's not the club in their hearts (well, it probably wasn't when they arrived). They've been here and helped the team a lot, and if they'd like to move it's okay.

De Jong on the other hand is an Amsterdammer with Ajax in his heart. That should mean more than a few dollars more in his wallet. He is talented and knows it. His time will come. He should realize that there are many advantages in staying at Ajax: he'll be more loved by the fans, he'll probably be paid more in a few years as he moves on, he'll be bought as a man for the starting eleven in whatever club he moves to. And so on. If he moves now... well, yeah, you get the point.

I think to be honest I'm just being a bit more cynical than everyone else here. Of course I can see why De Jong should be a different case, it's just that I really don't expect any better. I suppose that doesn't stop me from condemning him when he does something that frankly I'm not in the least surprised at though so yeah, go for it, what a mercenary little bastard.

[bryan]

Well, I'm a trade union rep by trade so know a bit about (UK) employment law. Nothing wrong in what Ajax are doing at all. It's not like they're proposing to terminate contracts or pay people at a reduced rate.

Let's say I work for a major retailer, and I make commission by selling products on the shop floor. My contract runs out at the end of the year, and I inform my boss that I've decided to move on in my life and go to a different job, no hard feelings. My boss takes me off the shop floor and moves me to inventory, stacking shelves and moving things around. I still get the same basic salary, but there's no more commission for me. Would I not have a case of unfair treatment?

[SE6Ajacied]

Well, I'm a trade union rep by trade so know a bit about (UK) employment law. Nothing wrong in what Ajax are doing at all. It's not like they're proposing to terminate contracts or pay people at a reduced rate.

Let's say I work for a major retailer, and I make commission by selling products on the shop floor. My contract runs out at the end of the year, and I inform my boss that I've decided to move on in my life and go to a different job, no hard feelings. My boss takes me off the shop floor and moves me to inventory, stacking shelves and moving things around. I still get the same basic salary, but there's no more commission for me. Would I not have a case of unfair treatment?

Well under UK employment law (and I suspect NL too), in order to have a case you would need to prove that the commission formed a part of your regular salary (as opposed to an extra that did not form part of your contract) and that your employer was contractually obliged to pay them to you. Obviously with a footballer, any "win bonus" is only paid to someone who is picked to play in the team that wins the game so I don't think a player would have any case at all - obviously no-one has a contractual right to be in the first team (although alledgedly Ronaldo had to be picked for the WC98 Final ;) )

Frankly, even if you could prove "custom and practise" you would have a problem as your employer could argue that you were no longer sufficiently motivated to do the best possible sales pitch and thus they had removed you from sales duties.

Morally of course you would have a much stronger point but I do have difficulty linking you the reasonably well paid I'm sure but not fabulously well off salesman with multi-millionaire footballers.

This is all hypothetical anyway as Ajax have denied it and we are way :offtopic: but I wouldn't have a problem with Ajax doing this and I can't see a legal one. I have to stop now, it's 5.39am on a Sunday morning and I feel like I'm at work :pukey:

[SE6Ajacied]

it's 5.39am on a Sunday morning and I feel like I'm at work :pukey:

It's that bad, I'm quoting myself. Still :offtopic: but the other part of this hypothetical that's not so normal for me is that I'm taking Ajax (the employers) side.

[bryan]

SE6Ajacied, thanks for the insightful answer. :xyxthumbs:

[SPL]

Just read an article on Bosman as it is 10 years this month since it came in.

Sadly Ajax have still not learnt about this ruling and we are still about to lose more players for nothing.Thus they are now panicing and trying to force the players out so they can get some money.
The press over here today still have Pienaar to Man City or Celtic, Trabelsi to Arsenal, Inter or AC Milan.

Interesting rumor that Chelsea have enquired for De Jong!!

[ZoefdeHaas]

If thats the case, lets get an extravagent sum from Nigel, seeing how he's being a turd with the new contract

[Kowalczyk]

Let's say I work for a major retailer, and I make commission by selling products on the shop floor. My contract runs out at the end of the year, and I inform my boss that I've decided to move on in my life and go to a different job, no hard feelings. My boss takes me off the shop floor and moves me to inventory, stacking shelves and moving things around. I still get the same basic salary, but there's no more commission for me. Would I not have a case of unfair treatment?

This is not a good analogy, Bryan. They're not forcing De Jong to do the Ajax laundry or something. He's in the first squad and works as a professional footballer on a daily basis (training!), but only 14 players can see first team action in each game -- and Ajax are completely free to not grant De Jong any playing time. No player is guaranteed a spot in the team.

@ SE6Ajacied: I understand your 'cynical' point as far as the 'moral' issue is concerned, but De Jong is 'factually' a different case as well. Ajax told the players with expiring contracts that they had to give Ajax a 'yes' or a 'no' by December 1st. Trabelsi, Maxwell and Pienaar respected that deadline, by giving Ajax an honest and straight-forward 'no'. Fair enough, said Van Geel: "We respect their decisions and it's a good thing that we know now what the situation is", etc. What annoys me about De Jong is that he is still trying to win time. And we all know why. He's waiting for Man Utd to show up and he's trying to keep Ajax available as a 'back-up option'. That is what Ajax don't have to accept from a kid that was practically born at Ajax. A 'yes' or a 'no'; that's all we want.

But to Ajax it's not that much a big deal, apparently, as De Jong played the whole game yesterday, so what are we talking about anyway?

K.

[SE6Ajacied]

What annoys me about De Jong is that he is still trying to win time. And we all know why. He's waiting for Man Utd to show up and he's trying to keep Ajax available as a 'back-up option'. That is what Ajax don't have to accept from a kid that was practically born at Ajax. A 'yes' or a 'no'; that's all we want.

K.

I think I must have missed that, didn't realise 1st December was such a deadline, in that case, that is out of order, I remain the cynic on the Amsterdam/Dutch thing though - can't support DJ at all but totally unsurprised (which means I basically agree with you, just can't get too upset about it 'cause I sort of expect that sort of bad behaviour)

[ZoefdeHaas]

I got something good to say, Ko will LOVE it :D

De Jong is like a big black dick that just doesnt want to get out of Ajax's mouth yet. How do we get it out? Spit it out, but would we want to get rid of our best player?

I think this whole scenario has gone abit doo-doo. De Jong, its december-MAKE UP UR F'''$(%KIN MIND

[Kowalczyk]

I got something good to say, Ko will LOVE it :D

De Jong is like a big black dick that just doesnt want to get out of Ajax's mouth yet. How do we get it out? Spit it out, but would we want to get rid of our best player?

I think this whole scenario has gone abit doo-doo. De Jong, its december-MAKE UP UR F'''$(%KIN MIND

Okay... I have to admit I love it indeed :D , but only because I know that there is no racist thinking behind the 'black dick' thing. People that don't know you might get a different impression though, Zoef. Just take it easy, will ya.

You're a f*cking poet, though. There's no denying.

K.