Young Ajax

[carcajou]

Yeah, the academy has barely produced any international players for the current squad. besides Stekelenburg, Heitinga, Vermaelen, Emanuelson, Maduro, Sneijder, Babel, Davids. What a shitty output. They should get their act together

The problem is that it's exactly my point... Is Heitinga great material? Is Babel great material? Does he score 20+ goals a season? Davids is not a recent product of our youth system (hello 12/13 years ago). Also is Stekelenburg an AWESOME goalie?

In all those cases, my answer is no. They're good players, but nothing special in my opinion. As for Ko's answer, it is not a matter of numbers, cause we do use players from the youth academy, but my question was : do they bring QUALITY to the team, are they anything SPECIAL? And for all those players I'm talking about, I think not. Now of course, it is just my personal opinion, but I reckon that the players "we" have produced recently aren't as good as they used to be (thus the need for the Stams, Huntelaars, Perez's and whatnot). Anyway, feel free to correct me if I'm way off, since I have to admit I haven't been very up to date when it has come to Ajax this season.

[Kowalczyk]

Okay: let me ask you another question.

This club is 107 years old. In how many of those 107 years has Ajax been absolutely top drawer (I mean: world class) thanks to players from the youth academy? Perhaps ten.

It's not fair to demand '1995 caliber' players all the time. It ain't gonna happen. What exactly do you expect (or demand)? A Dennis Bergkamp or Marco van Basten once every two years? It's never been like that, so you can hardly expect it to be like that now.

Ajax are a big club in The Netherland and Europe. They made it through the winter in Europe and finished with the same number of points as the Dutch champions, and they did it with a team that is, most of the time, 80% Dutch and 70% self-produced.

Sometimes Ajax will be better than they were this season; sometimes they will be worse. But if you look at the average output of the Ajax youth academy, it has definitely not been exceptionally low or mediocre in recent years. Nothing wrong with our youth academy. It's one of the things that does not have to change, I would say.

K.

[DanK]

I don't see the point at all...

Ajax play six or seven Dutch players every game, at least. And almost all of these guys are from the youth system. Most of them are in the national team, too.

Previous crop? Van der Vaart, Van de Meyde, De Jong - and a few others. They were better at Ajax than they are now, but that's not unusual.

But I wouldn't say the youth system doesn't deliver...

K.

I get the impression Van Der Vaart is better now than he was at Ajax, but I could be wrong as I don't get to see any decent coverage of the Dutch or German leagues these days, just what I read/hear.

I didn't really rate Van de Meyde while at Ajax and he hasn't really gone onto anything special.

You make a good point though regarding the rate that "real" quality players come through. We wish the Marco's and Dennis' came through the ranks all the time, but as you said - it ain't gonna happen.

Hopefully sooner, rather than later it all just clicks again.

it will happen - but I am getting tired of waiting

[Kowalczyk]

All I want to say is this...

If only players in the category of Cruijff, Van Basten and Bergkamp are 'good enough' to you, your whole impression of the Ajax youth system is based on a few exceptional years - and that is not fair.

Also, I don't agree that only those players are "really good". I think Ajax produce "really good" players all the time. They're not always world class, but that's a different story.

K.

[Frans]

Yeah, the academy has barely produced any international players for the current squad. besides Stekelenburg, Heitinga, Vermaelen, Emanuelson, Maduro, Sneijder, Babel, Davids. What a shitty output. They should get their act together

The problem is that it's exactly my point... Is Heitinga great material? Is Babel great material? Does he score 20+ goals a season? Davids is not a recent product of our youth system (hello 12/13 years ago). Also is Stekelenburg an AWESOME goalie?

In all those cases, my answer is no. They're good players, but nothing special in my opinion. As for Ko's answer, it is not a matter of numbers, cause we do use players from the youth academy, but my question was : do they bring QUALITY to the team, are they anything SPECIAL? And for all those players I'm talking about, I think not. Now of course, it is just my personal opinion, but I reckon that the players "we" have produced recently aren't as good as they used to be (thus the need for the Stams, Huntelaars, Perez's and whatnot). Anyway, feel free to correct me if I'm way off, since I have to admit I haven't been very up to date when it has come to Ajax this season.

Given that Babel, Heitinga and Stekelenburg receive regular callups to the national team, i would say that people with far more football knowledge then me reckon they've got the goods. Who am i to argue? Besides, how many times in the recent past has the club bought players, only to have them upstaged by youth players? Rosales replaced by De Mul. Lobont replaced by Stekelenburg. Escude replaced by Vermaelen. Juanfran getting nowhere because of Urby. And the reason Babel is playing on the wing (and not scoring 20+ a season) is because Soetars and Sikora failed, and Mitea can't stay fit for more than 2 months at a time (to all the Perez fans out there: i know what you're gonna say. quit bitching)
So, really i think the academy has produced plenty of quality players lately, and given that van de Weil, Vertongen, Anita, Sarpong and Donald are all about to come through, how can we really be complaining?

[ZoefdeHaas]

I don't know why some of you think Ajax players aren't getting national recognition like in the past but in my opinion these lads are getting too much when they don't do anything special

[aveslacker]

I don't know why some of you think Ajax players aren't getting national recognition like in the past but in my opinion these lads are getting too much when they don't do anything special

I certainly think you can make that argument for players like Maduro and de Jong.

PS. I like the new avatars, but I miss my old dancing one.

[SPL]

Our youth system is still rated as one of the best in the world and we should be proud of that.

Ko said it right as usual.

Most Dutch clubs have many old Ajax youth players. Even PSV had Kluivert Reiziger Culina and Lamey who went through our system .

If we can ever find a 1995 team again we will be very lucky indeed .

I still believe fans and followers of clubs are pleased to see local players in their teams.

We could fill our team with Brazilians, Peruvians Koreans and the like( with just 3/4 Dutch players only 1 from the youth system ) like PSV.

No one who follows and supports Ajax would want that. This club would not be the same without its local youth. It is what AJAX is famous for.
We just must make sure we get money for them and not any more Bosmans

[SPL]

I was about to finish the above but the diner was put on the table.

Just to finish my waffle.

The complete opposite in football to Ajax is Arsenal. Sure they have a lot of talented kids but only one of them is British. They go all over the world nicking kids from other youth systems and say look at us and our kids.

They have only 2 Brits in their squad Theo Walcott 18 year old who they paid about £ 15m for and does not look anything special (he is no Messi and no Rooney) and a reserve full back called Hoyte who is actually from London.

10m people in London and just 1 is in Arsenal squad.

I still like to tease Arsenal fans by saying they cannot find any players from 60 million in Uk but Ajax do not have to look more than 20 miles from their ground. ( Sneijder is from Utrecht which is slightly more!! )

Against Werder Bremen in the first leg we took a local lad out of the youth team and gave him his debut . When I asked one of you locals why he wasn't in the return you replied he was doing school exams. I am talking about Mitchell Donald. To me that sums up the Ajax way .

Cheers to Ajax and its youth system. Long may they continue.

[carcajou]

Escude replaced by Vermaelen.

OK, as I have kind of a personal sympathy for Julien Escudé, I just have to make a comeback . Let's try to get our facts straight on this one:

You're making it sound like Escudé was not good enough and Vermaelen replaced him....That's kind of funny since Escudé was called to the french national team (not exactly a Mickey Mouse team if you'll agree) for the past few games (and did GREAT) and is doing an awesome job in Sevilla (just like he did in Amsterdam for a long time, scoring a few important goals, getting offered the armband, being clean as a defender).

It turned out that the end of his Amsterdam career was not so awesome, but given who was in charge at the time, it doesn't come as a surprise to me, and I have to tell you that his departure came as a real disappointment to me (that and how fast he got forgotten). Though don't get me wrong, I like Vermaelen and I've like him ever since I've seen him play in Den Helder for a youth tournament a few years ago.

Given that Babel, Heitinga and Stekelenburg receive regular callups to the national team, i would say that people with far more football knowledge then me reckon they've got the goods.

I agree that getting called to the national team is a real form of recognition, I just can't deny that, but let's face it... The three of them are sometimes really disappointing. I remember times when Heitinga got me scared when he was defending in domestic games. Same for Babel, he can shine, but he sure can disappoint too. As for Stekelenburg, here are a few quotes from forum members in the past :

"Stekelenberg - Jesus I dunno, a lame, ineffectual flapper. Out of position for both goals, made only token efforts to get to the shots. Reminded me of Steven Harmison - that's what a big girl's blouse he is."

"Steks .............. just doesn't command his area and doesn't inspire confidence in his fellow defenders. Recommendation:- Drop and then sell as the guy will never make it."

That's how "brilliant" he is.... (I just selected a few quotes after a quick google search on AjaxTalk, but I probably could have pasted like 100).

Finally I really agree with Zoef when he says that too many players get called for basically nothing after a few good games (and usually immediately turn into ego-driven assholes).

[Frans]

Escude replaced by Vermaelen.

OK, as I have kind of a personal sympathy for Julien Escudé, I just have to make a comeback . Let's try to get our facts straight on this one:

You're making it sound like Escudé was not good enough and Vermaelen replaced him....That's kind of funny since Escudé was called to the french national team (not exactly a Mickey Mouse team if you'll agree) for the past few games (and did GREAT) and is doing an awesome job in Sevilla (just like he did in Amsterdam for a long time, scoring a few important goals, getting offered the armband, being clean as a defender).

French national team? Who are they? Ah yes, that useless mob who can't win anything unless Zidane is playing...
Point is the coach at the time (say what you like about him, he knew a thing or two about defending) thought Vermaelen was a better option than Escude. Now I too think Escude got a rough deal but he WAS replaced by a youth player.

Given that Babel, Heitinga and Stekelenburg receive regular callups to the national team, i would say that people with far more football knowledge then me reckon they've got the goods.

I agree that getting called to the national team is a real form of recognition, I just can't deny that, but let's face it... The three of them are sometimes really disappointing. I remember times when Heitinga got me scared when he was defending in domestic games. Same for Babel, he can shine, but he sure can disappoint too. As for Stekelenburg, here are a few quotes from forum members in the past :

"Stekelenberg - Jesus I dunno, a lame, ineffectual flapper. Out of position for both goals, made only token efforts to get to the shots. Reminded me of Steven Harmison - that's what a big girl's blouse he is."

"Steks .............. just doesn't command his area and doesn't inspire confidence in his fellow defenders. Recommendation:- Drop and then sell as the guy will never make it."

That's how "brilliant" he is.... (I just selected a few quotes after a quick google search on AjaxTalk, but I probably could have pasted like 100).

conversely, about Stekelenburg

"Bloody great game at Heracles Almelo. "

"Yeah, he was the only pleasant surprise in an otherwise crap Holland team."

As for Babel, you say yourself that he can shine. That's because he has quality. Noone can pull rabbits out of their hat every game. You could say that Ronaldhino's been disappointing this year, but only because you expect more from him. But you're not gonna say he lacks quality. Same goes for Babel.

[Kowalczyk]

Who are a better football team: France or New Zealand?

Mordbidly interesting, but it doesn't belong in this thread. I have moved the posts that were exclusively about the French national team from this thread to the General Football Discussion. Let's continue the France discussion over there and revert to Young Ajax in this thread...

K.

[SPL]

Just to report the reserves drew 3-3 with RKC yesterday.

Van Duin

Yildrim Timisela(Supesepa)Huisman Liesdek

De Jong V d Heijden Sterk (Lewis)

Martina Tayeb Goossens( Schell)

De Jong Tayeb and Martina scored. One game left.

[Cedric]

Jong Ajax lost again !
As it was against NEC, Jong Kakkerlakken are relegated. :00001757.gif: :00000639.gif:

Score was 1-0, line-up unknown for the moment.

[aveslacker]

It's been a good week for F&*^%#.

:00000620.gif:

[Kowalczyk]

Jong Ajax lost again !
As it was against NEC, Jong Kakkerlakken are relegated. :00001757.gif: :00000639.gif:

Score was 1-0, line-up unknown for the moment.

Oh, what a painful coincidence...

Hehe.


Haha.


Whaha.


Whoahahaha.


Whahahahaaaa.

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

HAHAAAAAHAAAAAAHAHAAAAAA!!!




K.

[Kowalczyk]

It wasn't easy. We had to lose to almost every relegation candidate in the league, in order to makes this happen, but we did it. Congratulations everybody.

K.

[Jesse]

[SPL]

Team for last night is on official site under match report.

V Duin

Will Timisela Liesdek Sterk ( 60 V D Heijden)
Huisman Keizer Yildirim

Martina Tayeb (Schell 60) Lewis (Vostermans 31 )


Several of the above are leaving so this appears to be a case of putting them in the shop window!!

[Kowalczyk]

A new season starts, for the first team and Young Ajax!

I just returned for De Toekomst, where I attended my first Young Ajax game in more than a full year. Last season I worked for an Ajax TV show named FC Godenzonen, which was always on Monday night and made it impossible for me to go to Young Ajax home games. This will be different this season: FC Godenzonen has been taken off air, which is a pity, but - as Cruijff once said - "every downside has its upside". More Young Ajax games for me this season.

Tonight they played Young FC Zwolle in the group stage of the KNVB Cup for reserves teams. Beautiful pitch, beautiful evening and the first time I saw Adrie Koster (the new boss of Young Ajax) on the bench.

The first hour was a bit dull: 90% possession for Young Ajax, but they couldn't really crack it. The first goal went in on the hour and it was a great one: a cutting, low cross from John Goossens, from the left, with Mitchell Donald (who played as a striker) coming in front of his man and tapping it home.

The second one was also scored by Mitchell Donald, who had a reasonable game upfront. He nicely twisted and turned in between two Zwolle defenders. Their goalkeeper didn't exactly look great on his low show from the edge of the box.

2-0 and Ajax had loads of chances in the latter 20 minutes of the game, but they missed a few sitters. 'Only' 2-0, but it's good enough. They're in a group with the reserves teams of FC Zwolle, FC Omniworld, AGOVV Apeldoorn and FC Volendam. It works like a UEFA Cup group: one game (home or away) against each opponent. This was the first one.

The line-up of what appears to be a pretty good Young Ajax crop:

Marco van Duin

Murat Yildirim
Toby Alderweireld (captain)
Jan Vertonghen
Christiaan Supusepa

Vurnon Anita
Siem de Jong
Jan-Arie van der Heijden

Chakib Tayeb
Mitchell Donald
John Goossens

K.

[SPL]

Thanks for the report.Will be interesting to see what you make of some of the kids you see this season.

[Kowalczyk]

Good start of the Beloftencompetitie!

Young Ajax 2, Young Utrecht 1.

Young Ajax were far superior in the first half, but Utrecht goalie Wesley de Ruijter had the game of his life and kept a clean sheet until the break. Jeffrey Sarpong opened the scoring (50'), Young Utrecht scored a totally undeserved equalizer, but Marvin Hasselbaink gave Young Ajax the win that they deserved: 2-1 (84').

Line-up: Heijblok; Slijngard, Van der Heijden (86. Sterk), Van der Wiel (46. Alderweireld), Yildirim; Anita, Sarpong, Vertonghen (46. Hasselbaink); Martina, De Jong, Goossens.

K.

[SPL]

Did you go last night Ko? Will be interesting if you take in a few Monday nights this season what you make of some of the youngsters.

One little curiosity is that we appear to have 4 left backs in the Jong set up.

Supusepa,who played last week , is still with the A1 team, Slijngard , who played last night plus sub Sterk are left backs and an unused sub last night Liesdek is also a left back.I am sure they can play in other positions , as they were coached the Ajax way, but it will be interesting to see if any of these 4 break through to the first team squad.

PS This is todays totally obscure info on our club from me !!!!

[Ayman]

SPL said:

Did you go last night Ko? Will be interesting if you take in a few Monday nights this season what you make of some of the youngsters.

One little curiosity is that we appear to have 4 left backs in the Jong set up.

Supusepa,who played last week , is still with the A1 team, Slijngard , who played last night plus sub Sterk are left backs and an unused sub last night Liesdek is also a left back.I am sure they can play in other positions , as they were coached the Ajax way, but it will be interesting to see if any of these 4 break through to the first team squad.

Well Sterk can play left side of central defense....I believe he can make it to the senior level eventually...I hope so anyway...Btw what happened to the two brothers Ruud Jong and Jaap Jong....I hope they are still in the Promise squads..Anyone know?

[SPL]

They left in summer of 2006 and went to Den Haag.Not sure if they are still there this season

I am full of useless info but every once in a while it is of use.

Incidently Ajaxshowtime.com is the best site for info on youth sides.
If you go into it under AFCA heading they list the Jong team and all the youth sides players from A1 down to C3.
They usually do a report on A1 games listing the team and show results of other games. They did a round up pre season of who was new to senior youth squads and showed the players who left and where they went.

So my very limited knowledge of our youths can be blamed on this site.