General Football Discussion

[Orange14]

This one is amazing beyond words!!!!! http://timesonline.typepad.com/thegame/ ... -goal.html

[Kowalczyk]

Yup - here you go: Al-Hilal FC claim that Nawaf Al-Abed's goal against Al-Sholah is the the fastest goal ever scored. Al-Hilal are coached by Eric Gerets, formerly the right fullback for Belgium and PSV.

Amazing goal.

But... it appears that the ball crossed the line after four seconds, which - if this is confirmed - would mean that Al-Abed's goal loses out to Mark Burrows' goal scored for Cowes Sport in April 2004. He scored after two seconds. Was that one taped, I wonder...?

The fastest goal ever in the Dutch Eredivisie, by the way, was scored by NAC's Koos Waslander, after eight seconds against PEC Zwolle, on 20 March 1982. The unfortunate Zwolle goalkeeper was ex-Ajax man Piet Schrijvers.

K.

[Van basten]

I feel sorry for Ireland. That Henry's hand was quite shocking

[Philippe]

This is more than embarrassing. It's a shame.

[aveslacker]

This is more than embarrassing. It's a shame.

I've always respected Henry, but I don't think I can forgive him for this. I feel for Ireland right now.

[SPL]

Henry did cheat but as someone posted on teletext had he done it against Uraguay would anyone have cared!

No way can the game be replayed otherwise you could have loads of goals disputed and requests for replays.

[Van basten]

Henry did cheat but as someone posted on teletext had he done it against Uraguay would anyone have cared!

No way can the game be replayed otherwise you could have loads of goals disputed and requests for replays.

If they would aloud to see video replay for refere, it would solve the problem.

[SPL]

soccer must drag itself into the 21st century and allow video evidence etc.

[Cedric]

And when do you use the video? Where? How often? Who can call the video?
These are some questions that won't be solved easily, and that may be discussed for ever. And then, you have to analyse some 20 images per second of some tricky situation (foul or not? 0,01 mm offside or not? inside the box or not? deliberate handball or not? etc.). Great...

[Amol]

And when do you use the video? Where? How often? Who can call the video?
These are some questions that won't be solved easily, and that may be discussed for ever. And then, you have to analyse some 20 images per second of some tricky situation (foul or not? 0,01 mm offside or not? inside the box or not? deliberate handball or not? etc.). Great...

They could do it the way tennis does it. Every team has 3 chances to ask for video evidence in every match. If their appeal is incorrect then they can call for only two more and so on. But, if their appeal is correct they still get 3 chances to appeal.

[Cedric]

And who are "they" ? The captain? The trainer? Any player? And when do they ask the video?

Basic example: an Ajax forward seems to be fouled in the penalty area but the opponents (let's say Feyenoord) are already lauching a deadly counter-attack with 3 players against 2.
1) Ajax ask a video replay, the game is paused immediately

• a) good decision, there was a foul, penalty for Ajax.
  b) wrong decision, there was nothing, Feyenoord are pissed, they could have scored on that promising counter attack
  c) wrong decision, the guy behind the screen thinks it was a dive, the forward received a yellow card, and Ajax are really pissed as they really think there was a foul.
  d) ...

2) Ajax have to wait until the referee blows his whistle for whatever reason to ask the video

• a) It doesn't really matter, it's just a throw-in or a corner
  b) Ajax stopped the counter-attack and just scored. They don't need to ask the video. That's a bit lucky.
  c) Feyenoord scored! But they have to wait 60 seconds to know if they can really celebrate as Ajax ask a video replay
  • c1) Too bad for Ajax, there was no foul, Feyenoord's goal counts.
    c2) There was a foul : the goal is cancelled, penalty for Ajax! Luckily, there is no away fans...
  d) ...

It's more complicated that it seems, isn't it?

[aveslacker]

And when do you use the video? Where? How often? Who can call the video?
These are some questions that won't be solved easily, and that may be discussed for ever. And then, you have to analyse some 20 images per second of some tricky situation (foul or not? 0,01 mm offside or not? inside the box or not? deliberate handball or not? etc.). Great...

Why is it that virtually every other major sport in the world can successfully utilize technology to assist officials in making decisions but soccer can't? Rugby, cricket, American football, baseball, ice hockey and basketball all have some kind of means of doing this. What is so unique about soccer that makes it impossible for this to happen?

[Cedric]

I actually don't care if football is unique or not, though I think the rules and the "spirit" are rather different.
What I would like to know is how you proceed to use the video in football?
I mean: we only hear people saying in front of their TV : "we must use the video", "with the video, they would have (not) scored" and so on, as it was an easy miracle solution that would prevent any mistake (and the fuss that may follow). But I do think it's a bit more complicated than seeing a deliberate handball of Henry when you're comfortably seated on your sofa... You have to define clear rules to define who, when, why, where and how often you can ask a video replay, and think of the possible consequences of each rule. It should be possible, but will there be less controversy about the referees because the video is used?

[Amol]

And who are "they" ? The captain? The trainer? Any player? And when do they ask the video?

Basic example: an Ajax forward seems to be fouled in the penalty area but the opponents (let's say Feyenoord) are already lauching a deadly counter-attack with 3 players against 2.
1) Ajax ask a video replay, the game is paused immediately

• a) good decision, there was a foul, penalty for Ajax.
  b) wrong decision, there was nothing, Feyenoord are pissed, they could have scored on that promising counter attack
  c) wrong decision, the guy behind the screen thinks it was a dive, the forward received a yellow card, and Ajax are really pissed as they really think there was a foul.
  d) ...

2) Ajax have to wait until the referee blows his whistle for whatever reason to ask the video

• a) It doesn't really matter, it's just a throw-in or a corner
  b) Ajax stopped the counter-attack and just scored. They don't need to ask the video. That's a bit lucky.
  c) Feyenoord scored! But they have to wait 60 seconds to know if they can really celebrate as Ajax ask a video replay
  • c1) Too bad for Ajax, there was no foul, Feyenoord's goal counts.
    c2) There was a foul : the goal is cancelled, penalty for Ajax! Luckily, there is no away fans...
  d) ...

It's more complicated that it seems, isn't it?

How about starting out with basic things which can easily be sent for a video review e.g. If a ball has crossed the goal line or not.

If a handball or something of the sort leads to a goal then anyone from the opposing team can ask the referee for a replay. We can always have the 4th official in front of a tv.

Inspite of me supporting replays, I agree that too many replays will kill the flow of the game. But we need to definitely start somewhere.

[Cedric]

5 referees is a good start I think, even though it wasn't that successful for Ajax so far in Europa League. This is not a huge revolution, doesn't have any impact on the flow of the game, but should be able to prevent major mistakes.

[Orange14]

I have been reading a great new book, "Soccernomics" by Simon Kuper (well known to all of us) and Stefan Szymanski. It has some great chapters on the financial aspects of football (no teams are or should be profitable), the transfer market (teams tend to overpay for veteran players and especially strikers), and strategies for penalty kicks (featuring our former #1 Edwin Van der Sar's save in the CL final). Well worth reading, short and too the point. It's available in the States but I don't know about availability in Holland.

[martinkohout]

I have been reading a great new book, "Soccernomics" by Simon Kuper (well known to all of us) and Stefan Szymanski. It has some great chapters on the financial aspects of football (no teams are or should be profitable), the transfer market (teams tend to overpay for veteran players and especially strikers), and strategies for penalty kicks (featuring our former #1 Edwin Van der Sar's save in the CL final). Well worth reading, short and too the point. It's available in the States but I don't know about availability in Holland.

Speaking of Soccernomics (which I too am reading and enjoying immensely), there's a very interesting interview with Kuper on the New York Times soccer blog.

Kuper says that he and Szymanski are setting up a consulting business, based on their findings, in response to inquiries from clubs.

Wonder if Ajax was one of them? "... Ajax spent 16 million euros on a Serbian winger. We would have told them not to do it, it’s crazy, because he’s a teenager and, as we say in [the] book, development is difficult to predict, attackers overvalued, and the guy who made the decision, Marco van Basten, doesn’t understand what money means.... he said to us that it was only a number. But to us that’s the fallacy of letting the coach make the decision about spending a club’s money. The process is wrong."

[Orange14]

I have been reading a great new book, "Soccernomics" by Simon Kuper (well known to all of us) and Stefan Szymanski. It has some great chapters on the financial aspects of football (no teams are or should be profitable), the transfer market (teams tend to overpay for veteran players and especially strikers), and strategies for penalty kicks (featuring our former #1 Edwin Van der Sar's save in the CL final). Well worth reading, short and too the point. It's available in the States but I don't know about availability in Holland.

Speaking of Soccernomics (which I too am reading and enjoying immensely), there's a very interesting interview with Kuper on the New York Times soccer blog.

Kuper says that he and Szymanski are setting up a consulting business, based on their findings, in response to inquiries from clubs.

Wonder if Ajax was one of them? "... Ajax spent 16 million euros on a Serbian winger. We would have told them not to do it, it’s crazy, because he’s a teenager and, as we say in [the] book, development is difficult to predict, attackers overvalued, and the guy who made the decision, Marco van Basten, doesn’t understand what money means.... he said to us that it was only a number. But to us that’s the fallacy of letting the coach make the decision about spending a club’s money. The process is wrong."

Thanks for the link, I would have missed it. Quite informative and I liked the part about Sulejmani. Of course Jol is also somewhat guilty by bringing in Atouba (who doesn't look like he will amount to much although is injured now). I think the club has a pretty good record on transfers out and maximizing value for players. Would any team pay €25 million for Huntelaar these days? As SPL is so fond of noting, if we rely on our youth program we would be OK.

[SPL]

I see I am quoted!! Youth is the way forward plus getting talent cheaply if we have to buy which we have to .We have a hugh youth system probably as big as any club in the world. We have spent millions of euros in the past 5 years and have won nothing. If we are to win nothing I would rather have 11 players from the academy than a load of second raters .

PS Sorry to go off subject , blame Orange for mentioning SPL and youth!!! I must look out for this book

[aveslacker]

I see I am quoted!! Youth is the way forward plus getting talent cheaply if we have to buy which we have to .We have a hugh youth system probably as big as any club in the world. We have spent millions of euros in the past 5 years and have won nothing. If we are to win nothing I would rather have 11 players from the academy than a load of second raters .

PS Sorry to go off subject , blame Orange for mentioning SPL and youth!!! I must look out for this book

Totally agree. At worst, we would have the same results we are seeing now at a fraction of the price. But at least we would be putting out a team that we know we could be proud of.

[martinkohout]

World Cup draw!

U.S. comes out about as well as they could have hoped, I think: in Group C, with England, Slovenia, and Algiers.

Netherlands in Group E, with Denmark, Japan, and Cameroon.

[Philippe]

Well done, Louis (remember 1996 and 1997 ?) ! Juventus out of the CL .

Now we may have to finish the job ourselves sometime in the Europa League.

[souras84]

Well done, Louis (remember 1996 and 1997 ?) ! Juventus out of the CL .

Now we may have to finish the job ourselves sometime in the Europa League.

Yeah lets finish them off, just to take revenge for the 96-97 era!!!

[Blind3]

Just say no to drug cheats !!!

[Blind3]

Just attended a meet the team party for the Philadelphia Union last night. Professional football returns to the banks of the Delaware River !! Can't wait to take my place in the River End of our new, currently under construction, 18,500 seater ground with my fellow Sons of Ben (SoBs...very Philly) . The SoBs are the Union Supporters group. I'm greatly looking forward to the I-95 rivalries v. DC United, Red Bull New York , and NE Revolution , not to mention many roadtrips in the US and Canada.