General Football Discussion

[martinkohout]

Just finished David Peace's harrowing novel The Damned Utd, about Brian Clough's ill-fated 44 days in charge of Leeds United. I know it's been controversial (Johnny Giles sued or threatened to sue for libel, I believe, and I think Clough's family was pretty unhappy with it as well), and is heavily fictionalized, but I thought it was a hell of a read.

Have any of you-all seen the film adaptation starring Michael Sheen? I don't think it's made it to the States yet - or at least not to Austin. How does it compare to the book?

And are there any other football novels you recommend? I know Mal Peet has written several for "young adults," but I haven't read them, being neither young nor, some would say, an adult. I did read his book Tamar, about the Dutch resistance during WWII, upon my teenaged daughter's recommendation....

[SE6Ajacied]

And are there any other football novels you recommend?

Well I don't read Dutch but I've heard this one is well worth a read http://kunst-en-cultuur.infonu.nl/recen ... k-127.html

Not a novel as such, but apart from the normal "groundhopping" type books or ones about big teams I can recommend "Pointless" about East Stirlingshire FC is Scottish League Division 3, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pointless-Jeff- ... 0755313526

A very good read this.

[martinkohout]

Well I don't read Dutch but I've heard this one is well worth a read http://kunst-en-cultuur.infonu.nl/recen ... k-127.html

Not a novel as such, but apart from the normal "groundhopping" type books or ones about big teams I can recommend "Pointless" about East Stirlingshire FC is Scottish League Division 3, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pointless-Jeff- ... 0755313526

A very good read this.

Many thanks!

Alas, I don't read Dutch either. Should have specified "in English."

[Kowalczyk]

And are there any other football novels you recommend?

Hehe, I didn't even know that review... Never seen it, so so thanks!

K.

[SE6Ajacied]

This is intersting. Amsterdam Mayor Job Cohen is trying to get Sunderland removed from the Amsterdam Tournement as Newcastle United are at Utrecht the same weekend and they are worried about trouble.

Probably right to be cautious but can he do this?

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/13072009/ ... ament.html

[Orange14]

And are there any other football novels you recommend? .

Not a novel, but Nick Hornby's "Fever Pitch" about the trials and tribulations of following Arsenal is a cracking good read.

[martinkohout]

Not a novel, but Nick Hornby's "Fever Pitch" about the trials and tribulations of following Arsenal is a cracking good read.

Yeah, I'm a big fan of Hornby's novels, and Fever Pitch has a spot on my all-time top ten soccer books.

Since you ask (English-language only, alas; Ko, when does the translation come out?):

Bill Buford, Among the Thugs;
Chuck Culpepper, Bloody Confused! A Clueless American Sportswriter Seeks Solace in English Soccer;
John Foot, Winning at All Costs: A Scandalous History of Italian Soccer;
David Goldblatt, The Ball Is Round: A Global History of Soccer;
Nick Hornby, Fever Pitch;
Simon Kuper, Ajax, the Dutch, the War: Football in Europe During the Second World War;
Joe McGinnis, The Miracle of Castel di Sangro: A Tale of Passion and Folly in the Heart of Italy;
Tim Parks, A Season with Verona: Travels Around Italy in Search of Illusion, National Character, and... Goals!;
David Peace, The Damned Utd;
David Winner, Brilliant Orange: The Neurotic Genius of Dutch Football (my all-time favorite).

Honorable mention:
Frits Barens and Henk van Dorp, Ajax Barcelona Cruyff: The ABC of an Obstinate Genius;
Hunter Davies, The Glory Game;
Jonathan Wilson, Inverting the Pyramid: The History of Football Tactics.

Let the mocking begin!

[Kowalczyk]

This is intersting. Amsterdam Mayor Job Cohen is trying to get Sunderland removed from the Amsterdam Tournement as Newcastle United are at Utrecht the same weekend and they are worried about trouble.

Probably right to be cautious but can he do this?

Technically he can, I think. He can not force Sunderland FC to stay in the U.K. or anything like that, but he can veto events in Amsterdam if 'public order' is in danger. Ajax can go to court if they disagree, and want the mayor to be overruled, but Cohen seems to have a pretty strong case: the English F.A. warned him for this (black on white), so a judge would be likely to agree, I think...

I would think the mayors of - say - Manchester and Liverpool would be pleased if Ajax and Feyenoord were to play friendlies in those cities in the same weekend.

K.

[martinkohout]

According to Ajax.netwerk, the English FA has given Sunderland the go-ahead for the Amsterdam tournament.

http://ajax.netwerk.to/nieuws/artikel/1 ... gevaar.php

[Kowalczyk]

According to Ajax.netwerk, the English FA has given Sunderland the go-ahead for the Amsterdam tournament.

http://ajax.netwerk.to/nieuws/artikel/1 ... gevaar.php

That's right. The F.A. came to mayor Cohen's rescue by veto'ing Newcastle United's trip to The Netherlands. The Utrecht vs Newcastle has been called off.

FC Utrecht and the Utrecht mayor had no intentions to cancel the friendly, thereby forwarding the problem to Amsterdam and mayor Job Cohen. But the F.A. have now decided that Sunderland can make the trip, whereas Newcastle are to stay at home, as Sunderland's Amsterdam Tournament participation was announced well before the Utrecht vs Newcastle friendly.

Right. Case closed, I suppose.

K.

[afcajax73]

case closed indeed... or not.. what are all the newcastle fans going to do with their plane tickets and hotel bookings? come anyway is the answer to the vast majority of fans, so i dont really see what cancelling the game will do, other than give them more drinking time

[Blind3]

Officialdom didn't see this problem coming long before now ? Pretty pathetic .

[martinkohout]

"Angry Beckham confronts boo-boys in Los Angeles" (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story ... al&cc=5901)

Gosh, maybe those American fans are more sophisticated than we give them credit for!

[SE6Ajacied]

The latest issue of 'Chapions' magazine features interviews with Louis van Gaal and Guus Hiddink, both very informative to me at least.

Also "Strange but true", a collection of plainly odd football true stories the best of which was the story of the deliberate own goal, complete with players from the same team defending both goals at the end of the game with both goalkeepers trying to throw the ball into their own net. "The person who came up with these rules should be a candidate for the madhouse" being the verdict of the winning coach.

The actual article isn't online but this is the most entertaining version of the story that I found online....

http://irishtim.blogspot.com/2005/01/te ... e-own.html

[SPL]

You all know I would ban the transfer of u18's abroad so I should say it is good news for Holland that the Fword's 16 year old striker Luc Castaignos has turned down the child stealers of Arsenal to stay with the lowest form of football life. I also saw that Az have a16 year old talent called Adam Maher and he too has decided to stay in Holland for the time being.

This can only be good for Holland even if the Fword is involved. Recent years have seen too many 16 year olds go to England when they would be better staying at home where imo they would develop better
and then move on in their early 20' s when they are the finished article.

[Blind3]

Someone should talk to the club in Bolivia who just fielded a twelve year old. Forget the club , but it was on the Fox Soccer Report.

[afcajax73]

lol i saw that! and within minutes of coming on, someone took him down from behind, hacked his ankles half off... left him writihing in pain and reduced him to tears.. harsh lol but what else would you expect..

seriously though i think its stupid to field him at that age, an injury at that age would ruin him forever.. pure idiocy

[Manneken Pis]

Er ... while on holiday in Canada I notice that my other club, Notts County (4th Division in England, 19th place last season) have just appointed Sven Goran Ericson as their new "Director of Football".

The world has gone mad.........

[Orange14]

Er ... while on holiday in Canada I notice that my other club, Notts County (4th Division in England, 19th place last season) have just appointed Sven Goran Ericson as their new "Director of Football".

The world has gone mad.........

From manager of one of the premier National Team sides to fourth division football in four years; amazing!!!!

[Kowalczyk]

Er ... while on holiday in Canada I notice that my other club, Notts County (4th Division in England, 19th place last season) have just appointed Sven Goran Ericson as their new "Director of Football".

The world has gone mad.........

How do you feel about that, as a fan?

Is this some kind of idealism from Sven, or is there a new sponsor or something, who are paying him a shitload of cash?

Is there really a chance that Notts County can start looking up...?

Would be nice, I have to say.

I remember going there back in, what was it, 2002 (?) when Ajax played Nottingham Forest. We went over to Notts County's ground and had a very nice chat with some of the guys who were mowing the pitch. Just some fan talk. Very nice. Charming little ground.

K.

[gordonvandekamp]

Someone should talk to the club in Bolivia who just fielded a twelve year old. Forget the club , but it was on the Fox Soccer Report.

For what it's worth, I read that the coach of the Bolivian club is none other than the kid's father (an ex-International himself). I think it makes a little more sense when you realize the circumstances, but also for me something I hope doesn't become more common place.

[Manneken Pis]

Er ... while on holiday in Canada I notice that my other club, Notts County (4th Division in England, 19th place last season) have just appointed Sven Goran Ericson as their new "Director of Football".

The world has gone mad.........

How do you feel about that, as a fan?

Is this some kind of idealism from Sven, or is there a new sponsor or something, who are paying him a shitload of cash?

Is there really a chance that Notts County can start looking up...?

Would be nice, I have to say.

I remember going there back in, what was it, 2002 (?) when Ajax played Nottingham Forest. We went over to Notts County's ground and had a very nice chat with some of the guys who were mowing the pitch. Just some fan talk. Very nice. Charming little ground.

K.

As a fan I'm delighted, Notts were Forest's equals when I started supporting them in '75. Then that Clough chap came along and got a cup run going in Europe. Since then the shadow we have lived under has been immense and the the partonising nature of Forest fans is very irritating. I'm happy just for the hesitation and nervousness it causes across the river Trent (the club's grounds are seperated by the river and the physically closest in Britain) ... the nervousness goes right up to the board level at Forest according to one insider I talked to.

It was with absolutely no guarantees from the new owners that the fans voted to "gift" their 60% trust ownership (me included) to the mystery consortium, so it's all a bit of a gamble for us (the alternative just looked worse as our financial situation was poor and not capable of improving without external intervention).

I've no idea where all this will lead, the new Middle Eastern owners are making all the right noises I think:

- build infrastructure like scouting network, training ground, youth academy e.t.c.
- move slowly up the leagues invest appropriately not naively,
- work with the community to be more than a business entity

and hiring SGE was beyond people's wildest dreams.

As for SGE, I've always viewed him as a short term results manager (peps people up when he arrives somewhere, but then they stagnate), and seems to have an incredible track record of pocketing huge pay outs when he leaves (here he's negotiated a 5 year deal, at what I believe is £40k/week). So time will tell. He says he didn't come for the money but they all say that...

Final point that's been discussed in the forums ... both Notts and Forest have grounds on prime real estate land, and there's been talk (again) of a new "super" stadium for Forest (and the 2018 World Cup bid) outside the city ... so this could all be a simple land grab (the situation is more complicated because its a 100 year lease from the city council ... but they want the "super" stadium too).

Interesting times ....

[SE6Ajacied]

(the club's grounds are seperated by the river and the physically closest in Britain)

don't want to be too pedantic but I think fans in Dundee might beg to differ. I went to a game at DUFC once and Dundee are right next door in the same street.

http://www.scran.ac.uk/database/record. ... -513-340-C

Anyway, I think Notts/Nottingham are the closest in England so pedantry over......

[SPL]

SE6 you just answered my thoughts about the Dundee clubs. Interesting times for Notts County. Should add as a cricket fan Nottingham have rebuilt nearly all the ground at Trent Bridge and this is now one of the finest grounds in England .Forest ground is less than 400 metres from the cricket ground.

[Manneken Pis]

(the club's grounds are seperated by the river and the physically closest in Britain)

don't want to be too pedantic but I think fans in Dundee might beg to differ. I went to a game at DUFC once and Dundee are right next door in the same street.

http://www.scran.ac.uk/database/record. ... -513-340-C

Anyway, I think Notts/Nottingham are the closest in England so pedantry over......

Oops ... yes England only .... apols...