New Players for Ajax

[LucaS]

You might be right and I really hope you are right. I think Sneijder is a fantastic playr when used in the right way.
(Between the lines I read that you don't agree with the way van Basten used Sneijder (?))

[Kowalczyk]

(Between the lines I read that you don't agree with the way van Basten used Sneijder (?))

Correct. I firmly believe in an offensive 'number 10'. The Ajax teams of Koeman and Blind, and the Holland team of Van Basten did not really have one, which I think is a shame (and a mistake).

But that's just me.

K.

[LucaS]

Not just you. I agree

[bluedaddy19]

(Between the lines I read that you don't agree with the way van Basten used Sneijder (?))

Correct. I firmly believe in an offensive 'number 10'. The Ajax teams of Koeman and Blind, and the Holland team of Van Basten did not really have one, which I think is a shame (and a mistake).

But that's just me.

K.

not just you at all... i kept yelling at cocu for constantly overrunning wesley and leaving him to do the dirty midfield work

[Blind3]

I like the wing players we have. I think sometimes MOTM good ,but needs more consistency ,Rosales or a more experienced ,more mature De Mul on the right give us depth and skill there. I think hard
working Rosenberg , skill and guile Perez, or whippet-quick Mitea on the left give us good depth there.

Ko, thank you for the excellent discussion of tactics. I know I sometimes lose the plot about such things. Hell, I'm 3000 miles from it . I'm often so caught up in one result ,or the next, that I forget about tactics and history.Much obliged . :xyxthumbs:

[Henk de Gier]

I don't see Rosenberg as a winger btw. Neither as Babel.

[roche]

Also (let's get tactical now...) I think Henk ten Cate will revert to the Ajax formation as we once knew it (in 1995, for example). Under Danny Blind the central midfielder was mostly a defensive player (the 'Galásek position'). Ajax played without a classic 'number 10' (or 'shadow striker', like Bergkamp or Litmanen in the past) in recent years. When Ajax lost possession, the central midfielder (Galásek) had to do almost all of the defensive work.

I think the offensive 'number 10' will return under HTC (Sneijder, Perez), so that the defensive work in midfield will become the responsibility of three players: the two outer midfielders (who will have to 'squeeze' to the middle when Ajax lose the ball) and one of the central defenders, who will have to step a few yards out of the defense and become a 'Galásek' (the last Ajax defender who played like that was Chivu).

That is pretty much the 'classic' Ajax approach: the number 10 is an offensive player and the 'Galásek' is not a real midfielder but one of the defenders. The outer midfielders (Gabri, Maduro, Roger, etc.) will have to have defensive discipline, like Davids and Ronald de Boer in 1995.

Another thing... Under Koeman and Blind the two man markers to stay behind at all times were normally the two central defenders (Grygera, Heitinga, Escudé Vermaelen, whoever they were). The defenders to move forward were mostly the fullbacks (Trabelsi, Maxwell and later Urby). This was different back in 1995, when the two man markers to stay behind were the fullbacks (Reiziger and Frank de Boer), while one of the central defenders (Rijkaard or Blind) always played in front of the defense, as - more or less - a 'Galásek'.

I think HTC wants to revert to that system, with Ogararu and Urby being the duo the squeeze to the middle and form a three-man defense with Jaap Stam. In that case, Vermaelen will have to be the defender to move forward and 'forecheck' in midfield. He used to play like that for Young Ajax and I think that's the type of defender we all want him to be. He's got the qualities for it.

Ajax will be a different team, tactically.

Hope this made sense... :X

K.

I'm totally on board with this line of thinking...my only question would be who do you think the two outer midfielders would be. I've never seen Maduro in that outer role. Can he handle it? In my mind, I see Maduro and Vermaelen in that rotating Blind/Rijkaard role. That was the beauty of that partnership...they could switch roles if need be. I don't see Stam going forward. Then again, I want him on the field...but I'd love for Maduro/Vermaelen to become the new Blind/Rijkaard. I'm torn.

Back to my question, who best fills the two outer midfield role? I think that, more than the winger situation, is the key to this season.

[ZoefdeHaas]

We don't know HTC tactics for sure, but I personally think Urby and Heitinga will be good for those roles.

[Frans]

I think HTC wants to revert to that system, with Ogararu and Urby being the duo the squeeze to the middle and form a three-man defense with Jaap Stam. In that case, Vermaelen will have to be the defender to move forward and 'forecheck' in midfield. He used to play like that for Young Ajax and I think that's the type of defender we all want him to be. He's got the qualities for it.

Ajax will be a different team, tactically.

Hope this made sense... :X

K.

To me Urby always looks best when he is moving forward. While his defending is good, it would be a shame to hold him at the back when his energy in attack can benefit the team. Also, IIRC there were a few suspicions about Ogaruru's defensive qualities. Heitinga may be a more suitable option if you want your right back to play as a man-marker, but then again, he also has shown he can move forward from the central role. Whatever way Ajax plays, it looks like they have plenty of options.

[Record]

I think Henk ten Cate, will be playing in the same formation/tactic as Rijkaard en he did at Barcelona. That means with 2 upcoming backs(Ogararu and Emanuelson). On the midfield, i dont think there will be shadow striker, but the 3 midfielders will get that role together, just like at Barcelona. That means that the right en left midfielders can come both, near the striker. Not at the same time, off course. The wingers, I think will not get the classic Ajax role (Finidi, van het Schip), but more the roles like the wingers have at Barcelona. So Perez will be playing in a kind of a free role, from the left wing. And Rosales will have a more classic role on the right wing.

I think this is the best formation:

--------------------Stekelenburg-------------------------
Ogararu-------Stam---------Vermaelen-----Emanuelson
----------------------Maduro------------------------------
---------Gabri--------------------------Sneijder-----------
---Rosales----------Huntelaar----------------Perez-------

But players like Babel, Heitinga, Roger Garcia, Mitea, can be with the first 11 too. We just have too wait how these players develop.

Sorry for my bad English ;)

[DanK]

Sorry for my bad English ;)

Nothing wrong with your English mate...welcome to our home :xyxthumbs:

[dws]

I'm all for reverting to playing with the spare man in front of a back three and playing a shadow striker.

If Ajax play like Van Bastens Netherlands their opponents will easily nullify their attacking threat by concentrating on defending the wingers whilst crowding the central striker.

[Record]

I'm all for reverting to playing with the spare man in front of a back three and playing a shadow striker.

If Ajax play like Van Bastens Netherlands their opponents will easily nullify their attacking threat by concentrating on defending the wingers whilst crowding the central striker.

That is true. But if you play 4-3-3, it dont mean that you have to play like the Netherlands. If you have 3 midfielders that can play between the attack and midfield, it is very unpredictable. Because it is not one player, that constantly is playing between the lines.

[ZoefdeHaas]

2-4-2-2. Stam and Vermaelen the two defenders, Urby and Heitinga/Oga the two wide wingbacks with Maduro and Gabri completing the four, Sneijder and Perez helping out Huntelaar and Mitea up front.

[jamcocteau]

Another player arriving from South Africa - to play in reserves initially. 4 year contract though so hopefully will break through at some stage

http://www.ajaxct.com/News/Ajax_News/story_12097.shtml

[Venezuelan Ajacied]

2-4-2-2. Stam and Vermaelen the two defenders, Urby and Heitinga/Oga the two wide wingbacks with Maduro and Gabri completing the four, Sneijder and Perez helping out Huntelaar and Mitea up front.

Looks good but i would rather have someone like Rosenberg as the second striker. We all know rosy play's best in a 2 striker set up.

[Kowalczyk]

58 pages full of 'new player discussion'...

Time to close this thread down and continue in a new one!

http://www.ajaxtalk.nl/portal/viewtopic.php?t=7388

K.