'The Boss': Marco van Basten

[aveslacker]

We have a much better defense than in years past; we just need to figure out how to score some goals.

Which is not exactly what I would have thought at the beginning of the season!

[Frans]

... Sure we need more depth up front and we never have found someone to replace Sneijder as an attacking midfielder. ...

Well, it's not really Marco's fault that Aisatti has been doing his best Manucharyan impression...

[gordonvandekamp]

Here's a pretty good article/interview with van Basten that I think follows along the same lines as our recent observations:

http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/c ... rning.html

Coach van Basten is still learning…

Marco van Basten looked back at his coaching experiences at Oranje and felt he needed to involve himself more pro-actively into the game. Last Sunday, against FC Groningen, he did just that and was rewarded…with a red card!

Van Basten’s thoughts went to the WC2006 and the EC2008 when he appeared to be totally overwhelmed by the activities on the pitch and “forgot” to act his part.

In Germany 2006, it was the brutal game against Portugal that slipped out of his hands. His stoic appearance at the touch line was highly criticized after that game. At the EC2008, it was ref Michel who gave a second yellow to Russian player Kolodin, only to pull it back after talking to his linesman. Van Basten watched it from the dug out and didn’t respond.

“Looking back, I have failed Oranje big time in that situation. Something happened there, something that wasn’t right. He gave that player a yellow for a fierce tackle. Even if the ball was out of play already, that doesn’t matter. And shouldn’t have mattered. We should have played the extra time against Russia with a man more. I was too passive. Again. I should have gotten onto the pitch to confront that referee. “How can you do this! I will report you…whatever… But I didn’t. It just overwhelmed me… I think that’s what they all mean with experience…”


The infamous incident: the red card was canceled for unclear reasons…

The shenanigans against Portugal at the WC in 2006? “That game got out of hand. It was one of the most exhilarating games I’ve watched. So much aggression, high pace, good football…it had it all. It took me totally in. I was mesmerized. It all happened so quickly. The first yellow for Mark van Bommel after ten minutes or so. I couldn’t even see what happened half the time. Was Mark headbutted? Did Boulah touch Figo? I couldn’t even tell. There was so much going on, I think I should have been a bit more involved, but I still can’t think of how… I mean, Scolari was only shouting abuse, I think, but I don’t feel that his behavior won Portugal the game. I think both Holland and Portugal felt they we’re handed the short straw, sincerely. I do feel the ref let that game get out of hand. Both Portugal and Holland never have had the reputation of being mean teams. Certainly not Oranje. Portugal is known to whine and dive and all that, but they want to play football, just like us. We missed a couple of good opportunities, they scored one. End of story.”

Last Sunday, against Groningen, he saw Vertonghen getting an undeserved second yellow. “I wanted to do something this time around. I mean, last week Cvitanich got an undeserved second yellow, so I thought: not again! I wanted to make statement, walk onto the pitch and wake that ref up.”

“You can’t protest yellow cards, only direct reds. So, we’re getting in trouble again I thought. I needed to act this time. I knew what I did was illegal, but than again, the ref clearly made a mistake too and I hoped we could learn eachother something.”

Referee Wegereef wasn’t impressed and sent the angry coach to the stands. “I respected the player Van Basten a lot, but as a coach he just needs to stick to the rules. And those are: don’t come onto the pitch. Simple. And Vertonghen reacted a tad too aggro in my view. I’m totally backed by international guidelines on this one. No discussion!”

Interestingly enough, Ron Jans - Groningen coach - walked behind Van Basten onto the pitch to try and throw his 2cents in. Wegereef missed that fact, so Jans walked a way without a card. “Jans on the pitch too? I hadn’t seen that. My linesman told me about Van Basten and nothing else.”

Ajax lost the game against FC Groningen and is trailing more behind AZ. “It was a crucial loss. We’re not longer in control now. We will need to wait and hope for AZ to drop points now.”

[aveslacker]

Here's a pretty good article/interview with van Basten that I think follows along the same lines as our recent observations:

http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/c ... rning.html

Portugal is known to whine and dive and all that, but they want to play football, just like us.

Honestly, I like the guy more after reading this.

And I loved that particular part of the quote.

[Over Pasanens Head]

If there is going to be a sacking (and like Ko I don't think that it will achieve much) then surely this time we must send an invite to Co.

[Kowalczyk]

If there is going to be a sacking (and like Ko I don't think that it will achieve much) then surely this time we must send an invite to Co.

Yes!

K.

[The Purple Cow]

Marco has just received the dreaded 'vote of confidence' from the Board. It can't be long now...

[DanK]

If (when) vB goes, Co would be my next choice.

For once, though I would like to see a coach actually have time to repair any damage himself. If AZ had let van Gaal go last season, would AZ be on top now?

Just because a team loses a few games, does not mean you should get rid of the coach (yes I understand thats what seems to happen these days). We are still 3rd, just behind a CL place, still in the UEFA Cup.

The season is far from over, although I admit its not heading in the right direction currently.

[GangstaRiB]

If if if if....

I really lost it this time.

We've had all kinds of coaches the last 10 years and no one satisfied the supporters or the board.

What is going wrong?

Let's say that Van Basten resigns this season and we get Co. How long will it last before Co's old habits come to the surface and the entire board must sack him because he is not the ideal coach for Ajax? It happened before....

There is something structural wrong within Ajax. The squad isn't as good as we think they are. The current products of the youthsystem aren't as good as we think they are.

And still we demand championship etc etc.

We are the richest club in Holland, but we fail to have a consistent policy.

[Kowalczyk]

There's an interview with Co in this month's issue of Elf ('Eleven') football magazine. He's apparently very happy in Austria, they're top of the league and he said something like: "I never want to work at Ajax anymore. They were going to give me the time to build a team, but they sacked me. The responsible people are all gone, I know that, but it did happen over there."

K.

[DanK]

If if if if....

There is something structural wrong within Ajax. The squad isn't as good as we think they are. The current products of the youthsystem aren't as good as we think they are.

And still we demand championship etc etc.

We are the richest club in Holland, but we fail to have a consistent policy.

Exactly. FFS, at least give vB until the end of the season, and lets see what we look like then. Half a season is not enough time to build.

[SPL]

MVB should be given the season, 2nd place is still up for grabs although at present I am not confident. I just posted yesterday that he would resign because he thought about it last week and now we have been thrashed he may decide to walk.

The next 2 games, both at home will decide. Lose to Fword or Volendam and he would go.

Big problem in footy now is that if a club loses 4/5 games they sack the manager/coach.

The only way any club can go forward is to appoint a coach for 3 years and stick by him.

It does seem that the players he bought in are not performing, Oleguer and Sno seem to have been disgarded , Sulejmani and Cvitanich have both had injuries and need more time.

[GangstaRiB]

If if if if....

There is something structural wrong within Ajax. The squad isn't as good as we think they are. The current products of the youthsystem aren't as good as we think they are.

And still we demand championship etc etc.

We are the richest club in Holland, but we fail to have a consistent policy.

Exactly. FFS, at least give vB until the end of the season, and lets see what we look like then. Half a season is not enough time to build.

I'm not convinced by the results of Van Basten up till now. I don't know if we will improve under his reign. But one thing is for sure: every coach that proved to be a good one at other clubs, failed at Ajax.

But.... I have to say.... Van Basten if one of the worst performers, if I compare him with the last 6 coaches.

Blind was terrible, but didn't have the oppertunity to invest 30 milion euro in players.

Ten Cate was a bit of a mental case, but he got Ajax to the 2nd spot, only one goal away from the championship.

Koeman fucked his last year, but in the previous 2 seasons, he became champion + European succes.

Adriaanse didn't get the time to get rid of the rubbish and to start a new team.

Every coach had its own reasons to be sacked, but I don't know about Van Basten. He really doesn't seem to improve anything about the team....

I'm not a fan of just throwing people out, but Van Basten really shows a lack of vision and communication.

Everything that happened at Oranje (Van Bommel, Van Nistelrooij and Seedorf) I wouldn't believe because those 3 players were a bunch of crybabies. But now it seems that Van Basten just lacks human interest/intelligence.

[gordonvandekamp]

I honestly don't get all the sack van Basten talk, at least not yet. He may not be a great coach, but I think we definitely need to see the season out with him and keep things in perspective. The season is not over, we're not out of ANYTHING yet, The reality is that we've only taken 4 points in the last 5 matches and we're fighting for 2nd place.

I agree we'd all rather be champion, but that's not a bad position to be in for a coach over half way through his first season. As others have mentioned, I think most clubs are too quick to pull the trigger and fire a coach. What's next, call for a firing after a team can't string together 3 passes? I understand if it's only bad performance, but this team does have some positives. It's not like we're close to relegation, we're still in a good spot.

We have the most goals in the Eredivisie (48, AZ/PSV are closing and only one behind). It's not like this is a bad team, just not a team meeting everyone's expectations. a team that's had a load of injuries and really only worked with the coach for half a season.

I think the most important thing is to give Marco time. See what happens this year for sure and then I'd even give him next year. You can't build a squad overnight and expect success, what team has proven that to happen? I don't know if he's a savior or can even turn this season around, but I do think he should be given time to implement his vision fully, which I don't think he's had yet.

I understand all the disappointment and frustration, and I think it's difficult to find out where to place the blame (players/coach/management), but I really don't think now is the time to start calling for heads. Wait until things are decided for sure for all that.

[Orange14]

I just saw where Chelsea have axed Scolari. Unbeleivable. Here's a guy who won a world cup and is acknowledged to be a top manager and he isn't even given a full season. Not that I'm advocating bringing him into Ajax but it goes to show that there is absolutely no patience at the big clubs these days.

[aveslacker]

I honestly don't get all the sack van Basten talk, at least not yet. He may not be a great coach, but I think we definitely need to see the season out with him and keep things in perspective. The season is not over, we're not out of ANYTHING yet, The reality is that we've only taken 4 points in the last 5 matches and we're fighting for 2nd place.

I agree we'd all rather be champion, but that's not a bad position to be in for a coach over half way through his first season. As others have mentioned, I think most clubs are too quick to pull the trigger and fire a coach. What's next, call for a firing after a team can't string together 3 passes? I understand if it's only bad performance, but this team does have some positives. It's not like we're close to relegation, we're still in a good spot.

We have the most goals in the Eredivisie (48, AZ/PSV are closing and only one behind). It's not like this is a bad team, just not a team meeting everyone's expectations. a team that's had a load of injuries and really only worked with the coach for half a season.

I think the most important thing is to give Marco time. See what happens this year for sure and then I'd even give him next year. You can't build a squad overnight and expect success, what team has proven that to happen? I don't know if he's a savior or can even turn this season around, but I do think he should be given time to implement his vision fully, which I don't think he's had yet.

I understand all the disappointment and frustration, and I think it's difficult to find out where to place the blame (players/coach/management), but I really don't think now is the time to start calling for heads. Wait until things are decided for sure for all that.

I think I agree with you. Ajax has this habit of eating its own. Even if Marco doesn't win the league this year, I can't imagine the team bringing in a coach that would fix things in mid-season (and I would never want Scolari here under any circumstances).

But I am so unbelievably tired of this shit.

[gordonvandekamp]

I wouldn't want Scolari either, but Chelsea is a great example of a club that needs to stick with a coach. They have (had?) loads of money, were buying whoever they want, but have had little stability since Mourinho left.

It's not like Scolari is a bad coach, or even has the team playing badly, they are what 4th in the EPL? People just want instant results and have little patience. It takes patience to build a winner, unfortunately, no matter how good you are. It's just a guessing game now, but I bet if Scolari had stayed over say the next 3 years, there is a good chance Chelsea would have won the EPL or Champion's League with him. But instead they show no patience and give up when things aren't going as well as they could.

I think that's most important for us. Not to give up when things aren't going as well as they could, but rather wait until they are closer to the point where they can't get any worse. Stop pulling the trigger too quickly in the hunt for instant results.

[SE6Ajacied]

Is he still here? Everyone else (Adams at Portsmouth as well after 16 games) seems to be getting the push today.

I agree that it would be ludicrous to get rid of MvB after so short a time and at this stage of the season (it's not like anyone else is likely to come in and win the league for us now so even if we're just being coldly pragmatic we may as will stick with MvB and see how we go). I looked back over the season's results yesterday, there were some poor ones (Heerenveen away for a start) but also the Hamburg game and PSV at home - good things don't just become bad overnight.

Anyway, the way things are I seriously thought I'd get in from work tonight and he'd be gone - not too unhappy that I'm wrong.

The really terrific news is that Sky Sports news this morning were talking about the master tactician Adams returning to Feyenoord

[Philippe]

I agree that it would be ludicrous to get rid of MvB after so short a time and at this stage of the season

Yes ! Yes ! Let's give him time.

[Kowalczyk]

Yeah, we wasted tons of time since winning the league for the last time back in the fifties or something, so it appears we have plenty of it.

K.

[Philippe]

Firing the coach may relieve instant frustration but has not given any positive result in recent years.
The previous board of directors and coaches were a total failure, even given time, so let’s give the new ones some rest and time to rebuild.
Peace.

[aveslacker]

I agree that it would be ludicrous to get rid of MvB after so short a time and at this stage of the season

Yes ! Yes ! Let's give him time.

I reluctantly agree with this idea because I don't think firing our manager at the first sign of adversity is good policy, but I am more skeptical about Marco than I have been in the past. Besides, who is going replace him? It's not like there's a ton of quality candidates out there.

[Over Pasanens Head]

I agree that it would be ludicrous to get rid of MvB after so short a time and at this stage of the season

Yes ! Yes ! Let's give him time.

I reluctantly agree with this idea because I don't think firing our manager at the first sign of adversity is good policy, but I am more skeptical about Marco than I have been in the past. Besides, who is going replace him? It's not like there's a ton of quality candidates out there.

Co Co and Co

[Orange14]

While I am disappointed at the team's performance in recent weeks, I think that in some respects Marco has done a good job. The team has a lot more passion to its play and with a couple of excpetions has been in every match they played this season. In addition, he is experiencing club football for the first time. It's a lot different having to manage a team 24/7 and make the selection each week (or twice a week with cup and international play). Managing the Oranje NT is not necessarily an easy job but one could also argue it's not difficult. Assessing the talent is pretty staright forward and in both the WC and Euro competitions the team selection was pre-ordained.

Club management is totally different (which MVB is finding out). I have questioned his match selections and why some players are in one day and out the next (Siem de Jong, a classic example). In addition, he should damn well know that in the Eredisie you cannot play only three in the back (like last Sunday) and hope to keep a clean sheet. I believe this team has some quality and hope that he can right things this weekend. I'm happy about the youth of the team and the prospects from some of those maturing in the youth program.

[gordonvandekamp]

Willem van Hanegem on the topic:

From: http://netherlands.worldcupblog.org/1/t ... at-is.html

“I’m sometimes criticized for speaking my mind, but I must say that the influence of any coach is highly overestimated. I watched Marco during Vitesse-Ajax and I think he did all he could to keep his team on track. And that’s a lot, in his case. He surely brings quite a package to his club.

For starters, he was one of the best strikers in the world. He played for AC Milan, easily one of the best teams ever and played against the likes of Maradona. There are no players with more baggage like him. And he’s got a couple of years behind him as team manager. Experienced? Yes, I’d say so.

And still it’s hard for him to get Ajax going. He doesn’t really ponder throwing the towel, I can’t believe that. But he must be thinking: what else can I do? But, he’s the big man at the club and has carte blanche so he’ll never let his club down.

But he must see his players make the most stupidest mistakes and that must hurt his eyes. His win over Heracles was stolen and the 1-0 against Vitesse was also off side. As a coach, you’ll go crazy, but there’s nothing you can do.

Marco is not one of those explosive coaches. And I think - like he does - that that doesn’t help, all that running, jumping and yelling at the byline. Marco plays it cool, analyzes and coaches but now there’s all sorts of people saying he’s too passive. Those are the people that want to see him fail.

I don’t think he will. Van Basten won’t be chased away. Van Basten is a silent achiever. He works hard and will start again today. And he has one major advantage: next weekend, it’s Ajax-Feyenoord. That’s a game that hardly needs any motivating for. The media will hype it up, both clubs can’t afford to lose. And it’s a game in itself. Van Basten will use this game to get everyone 100% focused again.