The Big Euro 2008 Discussion

[Kowalczyk]

Here it is, peeps... The place to be this summer!

K.

[jamcocteau]

Aye, and some of us will be there mate, unfortunately not watching Scotland but suppose watching the Dutch will make up for it, nah bugger it no it wont.

Anybody else got tickets for any games - I am off to NL V France

anyway, it looks like most open tournament in years with no clear cut favourites in my opinion.

[Kowalczyk]

My prediction for Holland!

First game: Italy. The Italians are slow starters whereas Holland will regard Italy as their toughest opponent (reigning world champions and all that). The two teams will settle for a 0-0 draw and will be quite pleased with that result. "Not a bad start," will be the common feeling.

Second game: France. Another big one. Holland will look quite good and create chances for a win, but the final score is 1-1. Holland will have mixed feelings: perhaps they should have won it, but hey, 1-1 is still not too bad. "Everything is still in our own hands. A win against Romania will see us through."

Third game: Romania. Romania are much better than expected, Holland have loads of possession but fail to find any real openings. Final score: 0-1 Romania and exit Holland. Flight back to Amsterdam: Wednesday 18 June, just in time to see Bruce Springsteen at the ArenA.

K.

[aveslacker]

That would be a crappy way for Marco to take the reins as Ajax coach.

My sense of it is that he has learned a lot in his stint as manager. My hope is that he takes that knowledge and builds on it in his time with Ajax.

I also selfishly hope that KJH doesn't play this summer, giving potential suitors less opportunity to take him from Ajax.

[GangstaRiB]

My prediction for Holland!

First game: Italy. The Italians are slow starters whereas Holland will regard Italy as their toughest opponent (reigning world champions and all that). The two teams will settle for a 0-0 draw and will be quite pleased with that result. "Not a bad start," will be the common feeling.

Second game: France. Another big one. Holland will look quite good and create chances for a win, but the final score is 1-1. Holland will have mixed feelings: perhaps they should have won it, but hey, 1-1 is still not too bad. "Everything is still in our own hands. A win against Romania will see us through."

Third game: Romania. Romania are much better than expected, Holland have loads of possession but fail to find any real openings. Final score: 0-1 Romania and exit Holland. Flight back to Amsterdam: Wednesday 18 June, just in time to see Bruce Springsteen at the ArenA.

K.

Haha... that's pretty much the "Holland"-story at big tournaments.

I think we miss a lot of defensive strenght. But who knows, maybe the midfiel with Sneijder en Van der Vaart will create so much danger that the opponents don't dare to attach.

[The Purple Cow]

I'll be supporting Oranje, but like most people I just don't think the back four is strong enough to win a tournament of this quality.

They are also of course in 'The Group of Death'. Clubs in the 'Group of Death' almost never win major tournaments, I guess largely because they have to expend so much energy emerging from the group that they have nothing over for the later stages of the tournament.

So given that, my money is on Croatia, with Germany and Portugal as strong contenders.

[Monkey Tonk]

My prediction for Holland!

First game: Italy. The Italians are slow starters whereas Holland will regard Italy as their toughest opponent (reigning world champions and all that). The two teams will settle for a 0-0 draw and will be quite pleased with that result. "Not a bad start," will be the common feeling.

Second game: France. Another big one. Holland will look quite good and create chances for a win, but the final score is 1-1. Holland will have mixed feelings: perhaps they should have won it, but hey, 1-1 is still not too bad. "Everything is still in our own hands. A win against Romania will see us through."

Third game: Romania. Romania are much better than expected, Holland have loads of possession but fail to find any real openings. Final score: 0-1 Romania and exit Holland. Flight back to Amsterdam: Wednesday 18 June, just in time to see Bruce Springsteen at the ArenA.

K.

Agree, except for 3rd game. Holland wins that 2-0 or 3-1. Romania may already be eliminated.

[Venezuelan Ajacied]

Remember people Greece won 4 years ago....anything can happen....I have Germany as my favorite...but who knows...will be rooting for the orange the whole way :hupajax.gif:

[ZoefdeHaas]

Spain will be the team to watch, though Germany also usually come strong in big tournaments, however they haven't done too well in recent Euros.

Holland have little chance of winning, but with a strong attack, good midfield, and class goalkeeper, who knows?

[Manneken Pis]

I've just done one of those tournament spreadsheet thingies and I think the Hermans (sic) will win.

They'll need to beat two out of Portugal, Czech Rep., and Croatia after the group games to get to the final.

I think they'll play Russia or Italy in the final, and beat them.

As for Holland, their defence is simply isn't good enough.

[Manneken Pis]

By the way, there's a free Euro '08 pool link in the Dutch section of Ajaxtalk....

See "Oranje Algemeen" thread...

[Ayman]

ZoefdeHaas said:

Spain will be the team to watch

Thats what people say every tournament. But they never get past the Quarter finals. If Holland qualify, I would like them to play Spain in the Quarter finals, infact, I cannot remember these 2 teams playing in a competitive match, can you?

[dws]

ZoefdeHaas said:

Spain will be the team to watch

Thats what people say every tournament. But they never get past the Quarter finals. If Holland qualify, I would like them to play Spain in the Quarter finals, infact, I cannot remember these 2 teams playing in a competitive match, can you?

Qualifiers for Euro '84.

[Van basten]

Babel is out from Euro 2008, coz he got an injury. The Canibal is back to squad

[Frans]

ZoefdeHaas said:

Spain will be the team to watch

Thats what people say every tournament. But they never get past the Quarter finals. If Holland qualify, I would like them to play Spain in the Quarter finals, infact, I cannot remember these 2 teams playing in a competitive match, can you?

Qualifiers for Euro '84.

some of us don't remember that

[Manneken Pis]

ZoefdeHaas said:


Thats what people say every tournament. But they never get past the Quarter finals. If Holland qualify, I would like them to play Spain in the Quarter finals, infact, I cannot remember these 2 teams playing in a competitive match, can you?

Qualifiers for Euro '84.

some of us don't remember that

Nope, but many of us remember Spain needed to win by eleven goals in the final qualifying game.

Then this happened:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RX8oRHuzhY0

[Monkey Tonk]

Spain had to win the last match by 11 goals, or something crazy like that. Otherwise Holland would qualify.

I think Spain had 3 goals at halftime. Later on Freek de Jonge, Dutch stand up comic, told his audience Spain was up 12-1. They all cracked up.

[Monkey Tonk]

You beat me to it.

[ZoefdeHaas]

ZoefdeHaas said:

Spain will be the team to watch

Thats what people say every tournament. But they never get past the Quarter finals.

That's true, Spain, like Holland, seem to disappoint at big tournaments. However they have more "cool headed" players in the squad and less egos compared to the past. Many of their players, Casillas, Fabregas etc. had good season, they're in-form. Also, many of the players know this is their last chance to prove something so hopefully they'll prove to be a good team to watch which I believe they will be.

[Kowalczyk]

That's true, Spain, like Holland, seem to disappoint at big tournaments.

I wouldn't exactly say that Holland always disappoint.

Two World Cup finals in the 1970s. Winners of Euro 1988. Semi finals at Euro tournaments in 1992 and 2000. World Cup semi final in 1998. A handful of quarter finals.

That's pretty damn' great if you compare it to the records of the countries Holland must be compared to. Problem is: many people do not compare Holland to the countries they must be compared to, but to the world's major football nations.

The fact that many people seem to find Holland 'under achievers' is a major compliment in itself: our record is not great compared to Sweden's, Belgium's, Austria;s or Greece's, but a bit disappointing to Italy's or Germany's. It's very flattering that people tend to look at it that way.

But Holland are not Germany or Italy.

Spain and England are under-achievers (when it comes to the national teams; not their leagues or clubs).

K.

[Jinne]

That's true, Spain, like Holland, seem to disappoint at big tournaments.

I wouldn't exactly say that Holland always disappoint.

Two World Cup finals in the 1970s. Winners of Euro 1988. Semi finals at Euro tournaments in 1992 and 2000.
K.

And even the last time in 2004 we reached the semis. Eventhough we only won against Latvia. I think it was in De Volkskrant that they had an overview of the results in Euro's and World Cups and then you see that smaller countries tend to do a lot better in the Euro's than at the World Cup. There the likes of Italy and Germany still rule, while at the Euro countries like us, Denmark and Greece can win.

Germany's last two WC's had podiumresults for them, while at the last Euro's they could book a ticket after the first round. Italy also went home after the first round in Portugal.

[Venezuelan Ajacied]

ZoefdeHaas said:

Spain will be the team to watch

Thats what people say every tournament. But they never get past the Quarter finals. If Holland qualify, I would like them to play Spain in the Quarter finals, infact, I cannot remember these 2 teams playing in a competitive match, can you?

I for one think Spain is not going past the first round...they have a tough group with Sweden,Greece and Rusia. Dont be fooled...it looks easy but it sure as hell aint. Sweden has nerve of steel when come down to it while spain seem to miss out when the important game comes...and i think that Hiddink is going to work his magic once again....Sweden and Rusia get through this group :hupajax.gif: Spain goes packing....again......

[Monkey Tonk]

Holland has a national style. Since Ajax introduced it in the 1970's. That makes it easier for the players to get on the same page (on the field) and gel. Gelling as a team outside the lines is a different story. If the Dutch can solve that problem...

The Dutch definitely are one of the top nations in the world, and it is only because the best players are always sold to foreign teams that we don't get to enjoy it in the national competition. The reason behind Dutch soccer success was 'discovered' by Franz Beckenbauer, when he flew over Holland and saw an unending string of soccer fields below him. I think he exclaimed that 'the whole nation was one big soccer field'.

This ideal environment is why our national style has evolved into a one-touch quick circulation type of soccer. In Brazil, by comparison, the kids still grow up on the street with the ball bouncing all over the place. You'll see great control over the ball off the ground from Brazilians (never seen players with better chest control), with less quick passing and more dribbling. Unfortunately, the street side of soccer has disappeared from Dutch soccer, so even a talent like Johan Cruyff might have developed differently today. In my opinion the weakness of Dutch soccer (aside from the infighting in the national team) is that it has become too sterile.

It is, by the way, a mistake to think of Holland as a small country. The real estate may be limited, but the size of the population (and soccer player pool) is roughly the same as those of Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Finland combined. Squeeze all those countries into a place the size of Holland, make it perfectly flat, add a climate that allows people to play soccer year round, and throw in a total soccer philosophy based on the insight of one of the world's best players ever (Cruyff). My point? Something along the lines of the 'perfect storm'.

So has Holland underperformed on the international stage? At a club level, no. Ajax is among the world’s most successful clubs; the cream of the crop (I'm not counting the past ten years, because those are first and foremost a UEFA/CL issue). And even Feyenoord and PSV have won the biggest European trophy. But the national team? Absolutely. If you look at the mediocre team a country like Germany (1990) has won the World Cup with, an Orange Clockwork fan has got to be scratching his head. (I mention 1990 because that was the Dutch team that had won Euro-88, with pretty much the same lineup).

[The Purple Cow]

"Squeeze all those countries into a place the size of Holland, make it perfectly flat, add a climate that allows people to play soccer year round, and throw in a total soccer philosophy based on the insight of one of the world's best players ever (Cruyff). My point? Something along the lines of the 'perfect storm'. "

You and I inhabit different universes, monkeytonk.

**

A pretty good analysis of Oranje's chances here...

(From a German!)

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/ ... 10_ho.html

[DanK]

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/ ... 10_ho.html

Thats not a bad read actually. I tend to agree with some of the comments.

If Oranje can get out of the group (and its a big IF), it honestly wouldn't surprise me to see them make the semi's or even the final.

Again, its a big if.