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28 AUG 2019; Ajax - APOEL; CL Playoff Round

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Re: 28 AUG 2019; Ajax - APOEL; CL Playoff Round

Postby SPL » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:40 pm

VAR happy with that wonder goal !!!! Relief
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Re: 28 AUG 2019; Ajax - APOEL; CL Playoff Round

Postby SPL » Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:02 pm

Would have been a lot easier if KJH's goal had stood ,not clear to me still why it was no goal. Anyway we are through
although Veltman is surely going to be too slow at CD against top teams.Missed Donny today but still questions marks about MF.

Relief we are through.
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Re: 28 AUG 2019; Ajax - APOEL; CL Playoff Round

Postby Tom_ » Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:15 pm

In the end it was a routine win and we never had a problem. I will admit to freaking out after that goal was disallowed, but they didn’t threaten at all and we could’ve won 3 or 4 nil.
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Re: 28 AUG 2019; Ajax - APOEL; CL Playoff Round

Postby Orange14 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:20 pm

I got the score correct but it certainly was not nice or quiet. It took a while for Ajax to break down the stout APOEL defense but the delightful free kick by Ziyech and the thumping header from Alvarez proved to be the match winner. Tadic had a stunning goal to cap of the night and make it 2-0. The VAR decision taking away Huntelaar's goal was weird. The commentators on our feed said it was an off side against Veltman. OK, he stated off in an offsides position but I don't think he moved at all during the play. Certainly the players that figured were all on sides. APOEL showed no attacking prowess and Onana had only the one weak cross that he caught which maybe counts as a save. Champions League draw is tomorrow and Ajax will be in Pot 2. The club will certainly not surprise as last year's club did but I think they have a good bit of depth and with some more league matches before the first CL game ETH can get things sorted out.

A lot of YCs for APOEL and a couple of them were reckless and could have been Red.

Player Ratings:

Onana (5.5) - almost nothing to do in the match except for some back passes and kicks up field
Tagliafico (7.5) - fine night and always a danger going forward
Blind (7) - steady as a center back
Veltman (7) - reckless in the first half and quite good in the second
Dest (7.5) - he might have just made ETH make him the top pick for RB; defended decently and made some great runs forward
Alvarez (7.5) - great goal and he seems quite poised on the ball
Martinez (6.5) - played good position football but some passing was poor
Ziyech (8.5) - absolutely top rate for the night; free kicks were good and he was popping up all over the pitch to cause problems
Tadic (7.5) - great strike for the second goal and aggressive both on offense and defense
Huntelaar (7) - don't know why the goal was taken away but he played well going the whole 90
Neres (6.5) - some strange forced plays which he didn't use to make
de Wit (5.5) - on late for Ziyech and managed a looping shot on goal that almost went in
Marin (NR) - on very late

Away to Sparta on Sunday.
Appie Nouri will forever be remembered for his grace and humanity on and off the pitch!
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Re: 28 AUG 2019; Ajax - APOEL; CL Playoff Round

Postby souras84 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:18 pm

At last we made it when it matters!!
De Wit going to AZ for 2 million? Weird, but welcome.
I really hope Veltman as a CB was just to make it through August. I'm not sure about the Alvarez - Martinez duo at MF. And with Mazraoui and Donny returning. There's still a puzzle to be solved in our axis.
May the Force be with you
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Re: 28 AUG 2019; Ajax - APOEL; CL Playoff Round

Postby SPL » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:58 pm

Good player ratings as always. de Wit being sold is no surprise but giving him a few minutes tonight a bit odd if he is leaving.

At least we are through , 20m euros min for just qualifying,transfer values of our players will still be high and qualifying is good for coefficient ratings.
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Re: 28 AUG 2019; Ajax - APOEL; CL Playoff Round

Postby Amol » Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:59 pm

I ended up seeing the game after all :) starting around the 15th minute. Like probably everyone else, I went from being scared till we scored the 1st goal, being tense between goals 1 and 2 and then absolute elation after the 2nd goal.

Alvarez & Martinez locked up the midfield in this game. It was getting totally run over in the 1st game.
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Re: 28 AUG 2019; Ajax - APOEL; CL Playoff Round

Postby Orange14 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:23 pm

http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/2019-2020-uefa-referee-discussion-rs.2104167/page-10#post-38113816 is a good explanation about why the Huntelaar goal was disallowed: [url="http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/2019-2020-uefa-referee-discussion-rs.2104167/page-10#post-38113816"]2019-2020 UEFA Referee Discussion [Rs][/url] When you do a stop frame of the stream you clearly see that Veltman, who was off sides, impeded the APOEL player who might have had a chance to disrupt the cross. VAR made the correct call even though I didn't think so at the time.
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Re: 28 AUG 2019; Ajax - APOEL; CL Playoff Round

Postby Amol » Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:08 pm

But the trouble is that VAR's decision is never explained correctly. All it takes is for the ref to announce to the stadium (like American sports) that Veltman was offside and then accidentally (or not) tripped the last defender who was running back and could've put off/blocked Nico's header. Simple. Done.

What they do instead is say offside. That's it. Everyone is left to figure out what actually happened.
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Re: 28 AUG 2019; Ajax - APOEL; CL Playoff Round

Postby Orange14 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:23 pm

Amol wrote:But the trouble is that VAR's decision is never explained correctly. All it takes is for the ref to announce to the stadium (like American sports) that Veltman was offside and then accidentally (or not) tripped the last defender who was running back and could've put off/blocked Nico's header. Simple. Done.

What they do instead is say offside. That's it. Everyone is left to figure out what actually happened.

I agree. Even the announcers on the US feed had no clue about what the call was.
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Re: 28 AUG 2019; Ajax - APOEL; CL Playoff Round

Postby Tom_ » Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:18 pm

I agree with the reasoning for the call, but I still think it's arbitrary. Are they going to look at every collision between all the players on the pitch in all the VAR replays, to see if anyone was impeded? If not, why pick that instance to call it? How is "impeded" defined?

Not convinced VAR is making the decisions any better - since the ref still has to interpret the situation. Having said that I find all the drama quite amusing. I wish they wouldn't muck around for 2 minutes on each call, though.
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Re: 28 AUG 2019; Ajax - APOEL; CL Playoff Round

Postby zeux » Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:08 pm

Tom_ wrote:I agree with the reasoning for the call, but I still think it's arbitrary. Are they going to look at every collision between all the players on the pitch in all the VAR replays, to see if anyone was impeded? If not, why pick that instance to call it?


They only look at players off side. Usually there is only one. So all players on the pitch would be a bit drastic. The question for the ref: does the player off side interfere with play? Either by actively taking part in the play from the off side position (playing the ball) or by intervening in the play by hindering any of the players of the opposition. And that was the case with Veltman, as his man was worked to the ground (so couldn't help defend).
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Re: 28 AUG 2019; Ajax - APOEL; CL Playoff Round

Postby Tom_ » Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:23 pm

That would be a foul whether he was offside or not. Which I think they also look for on VAR? The goal was ruled out for offside.
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28 AUG 2019; Ajax - APOEL; CL Playoff Round

Postby zeux » Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:27 pm

Apparently any kind of contact from an off side player is deemed punishable, where it would otherwise not always result in a free kick. It is quite explicitly described in the rules, so there must be a distinction. Although it seems like a grey area.
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Re: 28 AUG 2019; Ajax - APOEL; CL Playoff Round

Postby Tom_ » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:39 am

OK, I didn't know that detail, thanks. Anyway - no complaints about the decision (after it was explained).
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Re: 28 AUG 2019; Ajax - APOEL; CL Playoff Round

Postby SPL » Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:30 am

Thanks for explaining. Not informing the fans what they are looking at on VAR is the problem.55,000 fans inside the JC Arena and millions watching had no idea. I had that stream that Orange watched and the commentators had no idea.
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Re: 28 AUG 2019; Ajax - APOEL; CL Playoff Round

Postby Orange14 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:02 pm

another rule that I was not familiar with is celebrating a goal by climbing the restraining fence. This happened in the EL match last night between Antwerp and AZ. Antwerp were a man down following a 2nd YC in the first half and then had a wonderful break away to score what should have been the winning goal as they went up 2-1 on aggregate. In the celebration the Antwerp goal scorer climbed the fence to call out the supporters. The match official had no choice but to issue a YC which was his second and he got sent off. They had to play the next 20 minutes down two men and AZ still had problems breaking though until Stengs scored at the end of normal time. z put three more in the net in extra time. I think the YC count was 15 on both teams.
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