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24 MAY 2017 Ajax - Manchester United Europa League Final

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Re: 24 MAY 2017 Ajax - Manchester United Europa League Final

Postby Orange14 » Thu May 25, 2017 3:05 pm

Interesting perspective on Ajax from The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... ague-final

Only problem is he has likely not seen many Ajax matches this season. We all know that these were the same faults that Ajax have exhibited against even lesser opposition.
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Re: 24 MAY 2017 Ajax - Manchester United Europa League Final

Postby Ayman » Fri May 26, 2017 2:40 pm

Despite a good season for Sanchez, he needs to work on his distribution
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Re: 24 MAY 2017 Ajax - Manchester United Europa League Final

Postby Orange14 » Fri May 26, 2017 3:47 pm

The UEFA Technical Committee named de Ligt, Younes, and Traore to the Europa League All Tournament team.
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Re: 24 MAY 2017 Ajax - Manchester United Europa League Final

Postby Orange14 » Fri May 26, 2017 8:13 pm

Nice technical analysis of the match: http://spielverlagerung.com/2017/05/25/ ... gue-final/ I'm not sure about the thinking that Veltman would have been better than Sanchez in the center of the defense. Maybe he is a better passer but he's not nearly as good a defender.
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Re: 24 MAY 2017 Ajax - Manchester United Europa League Final

Postby souras84 » Fri May 26, 2017 9:58 pm

I guess they meant that Veltman could play the ball long and avoid the ManU midfield trio that destroyed our creativity. Eitherway I feel that Bosz should be more aware of Mourinho's tactics. Football fans know what he does in these games...
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Re: 24 MAY 2017 Ajax - Manchester United Europa League Final

Postby Philippe » Sat May 27, 2017 7:39 am

Anyway, great atmosphere in Amsterdam all day long.

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Re: 24 MAY 2017 Ajax - Manchester United Europa League Final

Postby Cruijff » Sat May 27, 2017 5:28 pm

souras84 wrote:I guess they meant that Veltman could play the ball long and avoid the ManU midfield trio that destroyed our creativity. Eitherway I feel that Bosz should be more aware of Mourinho's tactics. Football fans know what he does in these games...


Tete as right back and Kluivert starting as a right winger would have been better. Now for Daley Blind it was a very nice game, against a quick guy that puts him under pressure and that runs deep forward he will always have a tough night.

Then my attack from left to right would have been Dolberg - Traore - Kluivert. Traore as striker where he had his best games, Dolberg to surprise the opponent at the left side for runs like he made at the 0-1 Lyon goal but of course to have both guys and some of the midfielders in the box at every cross from the right.


Now it was waaaaay too predictible Younes - Dolberg - Traore and with the consequence that the substitutes are then even more predictible.
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Re: 24 MAY 2017 Ajax - Manchester United Europa League Final

Postby Orange14 » Sat May 27, 2017 7:49 pm

Cruijff wrote:
souras84 wrote:Now it was waaaaay too predictible Younes - Dolberg - Traore and with the consequence that the substitutes are then even more predictible.

The midfielders could not find any way to unlock the 4-5 defense that Mourinho set up. They were way too slow in ball rotation and of course Klaassen really is not an ideal player against this type of defense. I wonder if Nouri would have found a way through.

Anyway, I assume you had an enjoyable time in Stockholm other than the game result.
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Re: 24 MAY 2017 Ajax - Manchester United Europa League Final

Postby Cruijff » Sat May 27, 2017 8:13 pm

Orange14 wrote:The midfielders could not find any way to unlock the 4-5 defense that Mourinho set up. They were way too slow in ball rotation and of course Klaassen really is not an ideal player against this type of defense. I wonder if Nouri would have found a way through.


If early in the game Klaassen wins some battles for the ball against Feillani, Pogba or someone else and if our Ajax passing is secure Klaassen can run into the box.. then he is not only an useful but even a very dangerous player in games like this.

But many Ajax players played far below their level. It was not only the tactics of the opponent, the most simple things went wrong... that first 'shitty half blocked shot goal' and then that screw up with Riedewald throwing in have a major influence.

Being lucky and the timing of key moments in a game are very important. Start the game with such a Lasse Schöne strike as in the Feyenoord game or with sh*tty moments like mentioned above.. it can change everything.

Orange14 wrote:Anyway, I assume you had an enjoyable time in Stockholm other than the game result.


I am still in Sweden until Sunday.
Wednesday early in the afternoon both my bankcard as the Swedish money I did cash at the ATM for scoring a ticket on the black market got stolen. Bingo score for the thief.

But there is a bright side, even without a ticket, I managed to attend the game in the stadium. Again a book can be filled with all the adventures around this Sweden trip.
Last edited by Cruijff on Wed May 31, 2017 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 24 MAY 2017 Ajax - Manchester United Europa League Final

Postby Cruijff » Wed May 31, 2017 9:36 am

SPL, Orange14 (and others..) you probably agree with me that the arguments mentioned here can have a crucial influence on the result of a game.


Cruijff wrote:Many Ajax players played far below their level. It was not only the tactics of the opponent, the most simple things went wrong... that first 'shitty half blocked shot goal' and then that screw up with Riedewald throwing in have a major influence.

Being lucky and the timing of key moments in a game are very important. Start the game with such a Lasse Schöne strike as in the Feyenoord game or with sh*tty moments like mentioned above.. it can change everything.
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Re: 24 MAY 2017 Ajax - Manchester United Europa League Final

Postby Orange14 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:13 pm

Cruijff wrote:SPL, Orange14 (and others..) you probably agree with me that the arguments mentioned here can have a crucial influence on the result of a game.


Cruijff wrote:Many Ajax players played far below their level. It was not only the tactics of the opponent, the most simple things went wrong... that first 'shitty half blocked shot goal' and then that screw up with Riedewald throwing in have a major influence.

Being lucky and the timing of key moments in a game are very important. Start the game with such a Lasse Schöne strike as in the Feyenoord game or with sh*tty moments like mentioned above.. it can change everything.


I do agree with you. It's difficult over here as all the US commenters only care about ManU and Ajax were a curiosity only because of their history and the youth of the team. All we ever heard about was ManU needing to win the match to get back into the Champions League. If Ajax had managed to score first it might have been a different game but that's what Mourinho was guarding against. Ajax were able to get the ball across the halfway line without much difficulty as ManU rarely pressed (only on the Riedewald throwin was there a great deal of forward pressure and once they got the goal they didn't press much after that).

As I noted in an earlier comment, Ajax MF just doesn't have enough passing speed to create openings. The passing map on 11 tegen 11: https://twitter.com/11tegen11/status/867483232555728896 (I wish I could cut and past this but the site won't let me; also note that the cheap goal of ManU is figured in as they were projected to only score 1.2 goals) shows how little Klaassen was involved. Dolberg was almost non-existent. Without ball rotation, all is lost. If Klaassen transfers away this summer, I think that part of the game will get a lot better. Maybe a player like Nouri would be of help in matches like this. He has good field awareness and is better in tight spaces.

Despite what I heard on our US telecast, I thought Ajax played well. If the Dutch NT would leave de Ligt out of the selection and let him progress I would be happy. Let's hope Ajax can keep the key players for next season!!
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Re: 24 MAY 2017 Ajax - Manchester United Europa League Final

Postby Tom_ » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:06 pm

It's one thing when PEC Zwolle park the bus, but when a squad of internationals do it the chances of Ajax breaking them down are very slim. It was dreadful football by ManU but it minimised the probability of Ajax scoring. As Cruijff says, our only chance would've been scoring first. As it was, after the ManU goal there was not one single good scoring chance for Ajax. I don't think any change in tactics or substitution would've fixed that.
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Re: 24 MAY 2017 Ajax - Manchester United Europa League Final

Postby souras84 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:56 pm

And PAOK blew it!!! :drecul.gif:

The Greek team we might face, will be AEK Athens. Does that name ring any bells??? :ajaxscarf.gif:
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Re: 24 MAY 2017 Ajax - Manchester United Europa League Final

Postby Cruijff » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:07 pm

Orange14 wrote:
Cruijff wrote:Being lucky and the timing of key moments in a game are very important. Start the game with such a Lasse Schöne strike as in the Feyenoord game or with sh*tty moments like mentioned above.. it can change everything.


I do agree with you. It's difficult over here as all the US commenters only care about ManU and Ajax were a curiosity only because of their history and the youth of the team. All we ever heard about was ManU needing to win the match to get back into the Champions League. If Ajax had managed to score first it might have been a different game but that's what Mourinho was guarding against.


Hmm yeah Man U did a lot of marketing in Asia and also in the United States. They are not a football club anymore but 'a marketing brand'. The way they spend their money is not so impressive, on the long term a club that builds up a real team should be able to beat them.

I would not mind playing Europa League in the season 2018/2019 and then having again a good campaign, but upcoming season I want to qualify for Champions League and then draw an English team. As Ajax should be able to beat them.

Orange14 wrote:As I noted in an earlier comment, Ajax MF just doesn't have enough passing speed to create openings. The passing map on 11 tegen 11: https://twitter.com/11tegen11/status/867483232555728896 (I wish I could cut and past this but the site won't let me; also note that the cheap goal of ManU is figured in as they were projected to only score 1.2 goals)


I disagreed with Bosz his line-up. Of course Veltman should have been replaced by Tete and I would have left Younes out. Then Kluivert starting on the right wing, Traore as striker, Dolberg officially coming from the left wing but in fact with a free role to surprise the United defense.

Now with this line-up it was very predictable... with the consequence the substitutes were even less surprising. At some moment Bosz takes off an attacker (almost never Traore, so in this case it was Dolberg) and then later the Schöne - Van de Beek substitute comes.

Both Man U goals were really shit goals... inexcusable screw up with the throw in by Riedewald... a guy who is not a regular starter and normally also doesn't get minutes as a sub. :blush.gif:
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