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'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

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'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Postby Kowalczyk » Tue May 17, 2005 1:50 pm

We used to have a Johan Cruyff thread with this title at SoccerPages... well, here you go: it's back!

For those of you who happen to be in Amsterdam between 19 and 25 May: the Melkweg Cinema (that's the 'upstairs' arthouse cinema of the Melkweg music venue) will show the two best Cruyff documentaries, namely Johan Cruyff: Nr. 14 by Maarten de Vos, in which Cruyff is followed during the 1971-1972 season (Ajax's best season ever) and En Un Momento Dado by Ramon Gieling, in which famous and not-famous Barcelona fans tell about their favourite Cruyff moment.

Two absolutely great films. Both are also available on DVD with English subtitles, but if you're bored (and in Amsterdam...) this should be a great night out.

Here's the schedule (tickets are 6 euros):

Thu 19 May, 20.00: EN UN MOMENTO DADO (Ramon Gieling, NL 2004) 90 min
Fri 20 May, 20.00: JOHAN CRUYFF: NUMMER 14 (Maarten de Vos, NL 1973) 90 min
Sat 21 May, 20.00: JOHAN CRUYFF: NUMMER 14 (Maarten de Vos, NL 1973) 90 min
Sun 22 May, 20.00: EN UN MOMENTO DADO (Ramon Gieling, NL 2004) 90 min
Wed 25 May, 20.00: EN UN MOMENTO DADO (Ramon Gieling, NL 2004) 90 min

Too bad they don't do a 'marathon' of both films on the same evening...

Edit: Just because it's such a great story, here's an explanation of the title of En Un Momento Dado. In 'narrative speech', when they're telling a story to another person, Dutchies tend to use the expression op een gegeven moment very frequently. It literally means 'at a given moment'. A more loose translation would be 'at a certain moment' or 'at some point'. Cruyff uses it all the time in Dutch.

As a coach of Barcelona he was talking to the Spanish press one day (in Spanish, obviously) and he suddenly used the expression en un momento dado, which is a very literal translation of that Dutch expression. It does not exist in Spanish. Everyone was fascinated by it, because it has some sort of a mystical sound to it: it means something like 'at a moment that is given to you'. So, without being aware of it, Cruyff accomplished the exact same thing he always accomplishes in Dutch: he invented a new expression that was actually a linguistic error, but somehow sounded like a kind of 'Higher Truth'. Students and intellectuals immediately adopted the expression and it is now a standard expression in Barcelona. Which is great, as a number of 'Cruyffisms' has also been 'officially' integrated in Dutch. The man's a wizard with words and a poet without even being aware of it.

:worshippy: ;)

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Postby Real Ajax » Tue May 17, 2005 2:11 pm

I remember being very impressed by NR.14 as a kid. Actually I saw it at the RAI around 1982 with loads of schoolkids during a presentation of Cruijff Sports. The Big Man was there too, we could ask him questions and stuff, which I of course didn't.
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Postby Kowalczyk » Tue May 17, 2005 2:29 pm

Real Ajax wrote:we could ask him questions and stuff, which I of course didn't.


:D

I don't know why I like the guy so much. He thinks he's always right, he talks too much and he's also a business man in a rather shameless way. But at the same time he's such an extremely friendly man, with such a good heart... I don't know. He's the only person I know who somehow manages to be extremely arrogant in a down-to-earth and non-pretentious way. That paradox is what fascinates me.

Sports journalist Paul Onkenhout of de Volkskrant (I work for the same paper, so I know him very well) once wrote something like this in his column:

"I will never forget my first Cruyff interview. I prepared a whole list of critical, merciless questions. It took me days. I was going to dig all the way to the core of things. I was not going to surrender or accept any of that typical Cruyff blah-blah. I was going to be a real journalist.

"He had me wrapped around his finger in fifteen minutes' time. After five minutes my list of questions had become useless. After ten minutes all I could do was nod and say 'yes, that's true'. And after fifteen minutes I was at the point where I wanted to ask him for his autograph."

:D

And the great thing is: all of his Ajax team-mates will tell you that he's always been like that, from the very first moment he entered the pitch as a sixteen year-old. One of the old hands of the mid-1960s team (I forgot who it was, possibly Bennie Muller) told it on TV once: "There he was, telling us what to do and pointing as if he were the team captain. After the game he started telling me 'you mustn't do this' and 'you should do it like that'. I thought: tomorrow during training I am going to kick you into a thousand pieces, you skinny little rat."

X'D

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Postby Real Ajax » Tue May 17, 2005 7:42 pm

Kowalczyk wrote:
Sports journalist Paul Onkenhout of de Volkskrant (I work for the same paper, so I know him very well)


So you work for the New Feyenoord Krant. ;) (really, the sports section is unreadable on lots of mondays...sorry. :yes: )

Anyway you're on the money in re. JC paradoxical charisma. There's so much we have tolerated of this guy: blowing the 1974 final, refusing to go in 1978, playing for bloody Feyenoord, and in my case playing for bastard Barca....it's unbelievable. On the other hand Ajax in a sense was born with JC, and even the haters know this. Talking about haters, there seems to be a bit of backlash nowadays don't you think? Even the Studio Sport robots seem to have a sceptical attitude towards him. Hiddink sensed this, but I think overplayed his hand (let's face it, he's a bit of a nobody.)

And there you have it...JC is the subject and I'm chatting away. ;)

Thanks for the tip btw, I really should go see Nr.14 again
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Re: 'J.C.' - The Omnipresent Oracle

Postby SE6Ajacied » Tue May 17, 2005 9:33 pm

Kowalczyk wrote:
Edit: Just because it's such a great story, here's an explanation of the title of En Un Momento Dado. In 'narrative speech', when they're telling a story to another person, Dutchies tend to use the expression op een gegeven moment very frequently. It literally means 'at a given moment'. A more loose translation would be 'at a certain moment' or 'at some point'. Cruyff uses it all the time in Dutch.

As a coach of Barcelona he was talking to the Spanish press one day (in Spanish, obviously) and he suddenly used the expression en un momento dado, which is a very literal translation of that Dutch expression. It does not exist in Spanish.


Cheers Ko,

I bought that DVD when I was in Amsterdam for the Roda game last year. I sort of guessed from the subtitles that this must have been some sort of seminal moment when he said that but didn't really understand the full story - It's a bit clearer now.

(I bought the Nr14 film as well - in my opinion, if you're only buying one, get this one. The 'dado film has some good narative but some of the football (and haircuts :headbang: ) on Nr 14 is out of this world.
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Postby vagegast » Tue May 17, 2005 11:21 pm

Is there any way to order the DVDs over the net?
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Postby SE6Ajacied » Wed May 18, 2005 7:16 am

vagegast wrote:Is there any way to order the DVDs over the net?


Try www.vi.nl (Voetbal International site in Dutch but with an online shop) or if not maybe www.freerecordshop.com (English Language site of a Dutch record shop chain with some DVD's for sale).

Other than that, I suspect "Fame" of Amsterdam will have a site but might not deliver internationally :sad: .
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Postby Kowalczyk » Wed May 18, 2005 7:52 am

SE6Ajacied wrote:
vagegast wrote:Is there any way to order the DVDs over the net?


BOL.com is another option. I'm afraid the 'Netherlands' version will be the only one that has them and the ordering process in in Dutch, but they do actually ship abroad...

By the way, to those of you who go to Ajax home games regularly: on the South side of the ArenA, between Bijlmer station and the entrance to F-Side is a big outlet for electronic equipment named Media Markt. On the first floor is a pretty good DVD section. More importantly: they're cheaper over there than anywhere else. Media Markt is the place. They'll be open before and after Sunday's Groningen game (I guess).

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Postby sonicdream » Wed May 18, 2005 3:57 pm

Great info, K.

Thanks....now I know what en un momento dado means...I feel smarter already... :D

I also remember reading one of many articles of a young Cruijff...as Ajax we getting ready to offer him a new contract (or something similar...) he came out with a "list" of requirements....and called it His Grievance List....how hilarious!
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Postby vagegast » Fri May 20, 2005 8:59 pm

Okay, bedankt jongens! For others that might be interested but don't speak Dutch...

"En un momento dado" at VI's online shop. It's a dubbel DVD for €24.99. It has a PAL 2 region encoding.
http://www.badgedirect.nl/cgi-bin/shop2 ... 5020210001

Bol.com has a slightly cheaper version for € 23,49.
http://www.nl.bol.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP. ... OWNER_ID=1

Johan Cruijff - Nr. 14 at Bol.com for € 19,99.
http://www.nl.bol.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP. ... OWNER_ID=1
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Postby Kowalczyk » Tue May 09, 2006 3:33 pm

This is remarkable...

Some historic perspective: in 1978 Ajax organized a late testimonial for Johan Cruyff. They played Bayern Munich at the Olympic Stadium and Bayern Munich turned the party into a tragedy: they beat Ajax by the score of 0-8. They had absolutely no mercy. Ajax were not great at the time and they expected it to be a friendly, but Bayern played as if it were their last day on earth.

And now this! (from RTV Noord-Holland's teletext service)

BAYERN APOLOGIZE TO CRUYFF

HILVERSUM - A few former players of Bayern München have apologized for the infamous testimonial for Johan Cruyff in Amsterdam, almost 28 years after the fact.

The friendly encounter between Ajax and the German powerhouse, played on November 7th 1978, was supposed to be a big 'farewell party', but at the end of the evening a painful 0-8 final score was on the boards.

"It was an insult, for which I want to apologize after all those years," said striker Karl-Heinz Rummenigge in an interview that will be shown on Dutch TV by NOVA on Tuesday evening.

A few more ex-Bayern players express their regret in NOVA. Bayern's legendary top goalscorer, Gerd Müller, says he is "not proud" of what happened in Amsterdam.


Should we accept the apologies...? I would say: only if they also apologize for the '74 World Cup final! And last season's 4-0 win! :D

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Postby jamcocteau » Tue May 09, 2006 3:50 pm

Kowalczyk wrote:
Should we accept the apologies...? I would say: only if they also apologize for the '74 World Cup final! And last season's 4-0 win! :D

K.


LOL Ah but mate what about this one - should I accept your nations apologies and in a World Cup match too - tut tut :D

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/scotland/4939424.stm
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Postby Kowalczyk » Tue May 09, 2006 3:57 pm

How typical: the Germans officially sink to their knees and beg for forgiveness. The Dutchies confess, but don't apologize! *LOL*

By the way: there's a mistake in the report. The long range strike that made it 3-2 was not from Johnny Rep but from Arie Haan.

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Postby dws » Tue May 09, 2006 9:24 pm

Kowalczyk wrote:How typical: the Germans officially sink to their knees and beg for forgiveness. The Dutchies confess, but don't apologize! *LOL*

By the way: there's a mistake in the report. The long range strike that made it 3-2 was not from Johnny Rep but from Arie Haan.

K.


Ko, the report is correct. The long range goal v Scotland was by Rep

The looooooooooooonnnnggggg range Haan goal was against Italy. :smartass:
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'Cruijff 60'

Postby Kowalczyk » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:17 am

Johan Cruyff will turn 60 on April 25th and, as you'd expect, this will be celebrated with a shelf full of books and loads of other Cruyff memorabilia. Most of these books will be in Dutch only (for the time being; I certainly expect some of this stuff to be published in English later on), but a few things are interesting for non-Dutchies as well.

Ajax will release a special 'Johan Cruyff classic jersey', which will go on sale in week 16 in the Online Fanshop. It is a classic Ajax jersey, '1983 style' (the jersey in which he scored his great 'welcome home goal' against Haarlem at De Meer) with number 14 and Cruyff's autograph on it. Check it out!

The most interesting Cruyff book for folks who can't read Dutch is also the most beautiful Cruyff book ever published. The text is in Dutch, but it's a stunning photo book more than anything else. Check this website:
http://www.nummer14.nl/cruijff/

The book is available in 'regular' and 'DeLuxe' editions. The DeLuxe edition is a limited edition of 1947 copies (Cruyff's year of birth) in a special case. They are all numbered, autographed and with the name of the buyer in it (calligraphic). The regular edition is 59.99 euros; the DeLuxe edition 99.99 euros.

Another book I want to mention is THIS ONE: Johan Cruijff - The American Years. It is the amazing story of the least known period from the man's career. Not many people in Holland are aware of what happened during his years in the U.S. league. This book simply must be translated into English at some point, you'd say.

For more Cruyff stuff you may also want to visit the English version of his official homepage (cool T-shirts available in the shop!):
http://www.cruijff.com/eng/

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Postby SPL » Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:02 pm

On the subject of good books being translated into english what is the news of your book Ko ???
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Postby Blind3 » Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:05 pm

KO, thanks for the heads-up. I'll be over between the 18th and 24th , with a side trip to watch UFC in Manchesteron 21.4 , and will definitely be on the lookout for all things Hendrik Johannes "GOD" Cruijff .
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Re: 'Cruijff 60'

Postby SE6Ajacied » Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:15 pm

Kowalczyk wrote:
Ajax will release a special 'Johan Cruyff classic jersey', which will go on sale in week 16 in the Online Fanshop. It is a classic Ajax jersey, '1983 style' (the jersey in which he scored his great 'welcome home goal' against Haarlem at De Meer) with number 14 and Cruyff's autograph on it. Check it out!


K.


That's a really nice shirt. I've actually seen a similar one for sale on E-bay already, with the signature/number 14 but with no Ajax badge and with the TDK sponsor.

I thought that was by TOFFS as they've brought out a whole range of Cruijff special shirts but it doesn't seem to be one of theirs... Check it out!
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Postby Kowalczyk » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:59 pm

Happy Birthday, Johan.

I'll always be grateful for everything you've done for my club.

You're the greatest ever, by a lightyear.

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Postby DanK » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:47 am

Johan - you are a true legend and your quotes were/are just as good:
"If I wanted you to understand me, I would have explained it better."

What a legend :worshippy:
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Postby Kowalczyk » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:28 am

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, your editor is taking care of some 'overdue maintenance' on Ajax USA... In other words: I'll be publishing some old news today. But we're doing it the 'Ajax USA way': not just the plain facts, but also some background and some nice little facts that you did not read in every other news report. So it might be a nice little read anyway.

Here's a news report on Ajax retiring Cruijff's number 14:
http://www.ajax-usa.com/news/2006-2007/ ... aster.html

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Postby Blind3 » Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:43 pm

A belated HAPPY BIRTHDAY to the player who , as ringmaster for the 74 WC side, showed me how beautiful the beautiful game can be. I feel honored to have seen him play ; on tv with the NT and live when he played with Los Angeles Aztecs and Washington Diplomats ( with Wim Jansen) .
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Postby kraz11 » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:45 pm

Happy birthday johan :00000639.gif:

say, why did he join f-word after so many years in ajax?
what was he thinking?
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Postby aveslacker » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:44 pm

Image

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Last edited by aveslacker on Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby bluedaddy19 » Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:16 pm

oops
AJAX HUP ROOD WITTE SCHARE, DAPP RE STRIJDERS FIER EN KOEN
GEEN CLUB DIE ONS KAN EVENAREN, ROOD EN WIT WORDT KAMPIOEN
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