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Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby Cruijff » Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:29 pm

Orange14 wrote:Jonk was always the odd man out and it's a shame as he is the only one who seemed to have a vision. Better that they would sack Overmars who seems not to have a clue about transfers.


That's exactly what it's gonna happen within a couple of months.

Jonk should just see this as a couple of months of 'vacation'.

I give you a prediction in a briefcase that Overmars and De Boer will be outside the gate in the of summer 2016. Van der Sar or Bergkamp still be remaining in their current roles is also very doubtful.

So next year Wim Jonk will return with Johan at his side.
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby Orange14 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:46 pm

I hope you are correct about this prediction. I have the feeling that Jonk didn't want to play the necessary politics and in one sense the deck was stacked against him in that Overmars, van der Sar, de Boer and possibly unnamed others just did not like his abrasiveness. It's really going to take the Board to make the tough decision at the end of the season. I hope Cruyff's health holds up to see this to it's "logical" conclusion. :ajaxscarf.gif:
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby SPL » Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:02 pm

Jonk has the youth playing real Ajax footy but FDB has us playing crap most of the time. A few years ago Menno Pot aka Ko had a survey on here and we all agreed we would not want Ajax to win the title playing dull crap footy .We all would rather watch us play beautiful footy even if we finished 2nd.

FDB has done a good job in winning 4 titles and youngsters are in the squad but the style of footy is boring most of the time( we cannot play Roda at home every week) and the standard of purchases very poor. Apart from Cillessen I would say woeful.

FDB and Overmars have to go asap and take Bergkamp with them . v d Sar is more involved with commercial side so he can stay.

I would like Rijkaard back with maybe Jonk as assistant.
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby Orange14 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:15 pm

SPL wrote:I would like Rijkaard back with maybe Jonk as assistant.

I'm pretty sure that Rijkaard has said he's done with managing but I certainly would support this pairing with the goal of Jonk moving up to manager after 2-3 years.
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby Benji » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:42 am

Well, it's a replay of the '2011-crisis', probably even worse. Cruijff/Jonk on one side, Piet Keizer in the middle and Collee/Overmars/vdSar(/de Boer?) on the otherside. Another court case.
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby Ayman » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:25 pm

Time for Frank de Boer, Dennis Bergkamp, Jaap Stam and Marc Overmars to cut their losses and leave. Clearly it isn't working out. Marc Overmars let a young talent go, by the name of Mink Peeters, to Real Madrid. One should question the wisdom of his signings, such as Nick Viergever, Amin Younes and Sanogo. Frank de Boer is clueless, he has taken Ajax as far as he could. I am hoping Frank Rijkaard will return at the helm, with Wim Jonk, and maybe he can persuade Johan Neeskens or Henk ten Cate for one last hurrah to be his assistant
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby zeux » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:35 pm

Benji wrote:Collee/Overmars/vdSar(/de Boer?) on the otherside. Another court case.


Ironically, vd Sar is in his position, because he attended the Cruijff Academy.
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby SPL » Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:36 pm

Overmars let Fosu-Mensah go to Man U as well.A bigger talent than Peeters.Malen to Arsenal a hugh talent but he was obsessed with money .Biggest moan that I have read on the Dutch sites is that most of the players we have bought are no better than our own kids.Not suggesting certain players of our own are that special but they are as good.

v d Hoorn is signed but Veltman is better. Viergever a poor player but at the time Moisander was staying and we had Riedewald and Denswil as cover.At the start of last season Denswil was adequate but lost it when Moisander stayed ahead of him in the team.

Midfield, Duarte a very poor player.Sinkgraven cost 8m but is he any better than Andersen and we have v d Beek and Nouri almost ready .And since signing him Bazoer has broken into the side.

Gudelj is ok , alot better than Serero, but thats not hard ,I dont rate Serero at all. With all the young kids we needed
a Poulsen type . We signed Heitinga who is too slow ,and past it. We have enough cover at CD and at DM.

Upfront FDB couldn't handle the talent of Kishna but Younes does not look special and is no better than Becker ,on loan at Zwolle. Milik is probably not the right striker for our system. Sanogo ,words fail me.

imo Cillessen, Schone,Poulsen and Moisander for his first 2years ,have been decent signings ,2 of whom were frees.I dont count Dijks as he only left for 2 years. Milik and Gudelj are decent but not special.

Overall our signings have been very poor and they let kids go at 16 who are big talents ,mind we have signed kids from abroad and Bazoer and El Ghazi are not our own .

PS.
FDB's hero V Gaal is getting stick from Man U fans and the press for playing the same boring possession footy.It is of course easy to say Barca took this style to a greater level,Messi is an alltime great.
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby Cruijff » Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:09 pm

zeux wrote:
Benji wrote:Collee/Overmars/vdSar(/de Boer?) on the otherside. Another court case.


Ironically, vd Sar is in his position, because he attended the Cruijff Academy.


No, that's not the right way to tell this story.

Van der Sar was brought in this position mostly because Ajax needed to find a new, very big sponsor with Aegon quitting in 2014. He is, probably the most recognisible 1995 player with his long career, a second Champions League win at Man United and everybody in the world remembers a very tall goalkeeper with big ears.


Van der Sar was chosen to lead the commercial department, that's why they send him to the Cruijff Academy to learn some of the basics. Unfortunately after being the commercial director they gave him more heavy tasks that don't seem to be in his quality area.
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby Benji » Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:09 pm

Wow, this is hilariously bizarre. Personnel at De Toekomst printed all kinds of articles and photo's of Wim Jonk and Johan Cruijff and put them on windows and desks to show support. Van der Sar personally tore them apart :drecul.gif:
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby Tom_ » Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:45 pm

So do you guys think it's by coincidence that this happened on the same day the Overmars story broke, or "they" tried to divert attention away from Overmars by moving against Jonk? Or is the Overmars thing a complete non-story?
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby Benji » Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:54 pm

Nothing is a coincidence in this saga. The question to ask is who leaked this news and we'll probably never know. There are a couple of 'clans' vying for power, but the absolute majority of popular support is for Cruijff/Jonk.

In the Dutch section of this message board there are also quite a few supporters of 'the other side', or at least no supporters of Cruijff and his 'masterplan'. Some of them might want to explain their point of view to you. Actually the 'discussion' over here has boggled down to monologues being thrown at each other, everyone is convinced of their own point of view. The same is probably happening on a bigger scale inside Ajax, the company.
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby Cruijff » Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:55 pm

It's correct what Benji says, the leaking from several parties was strategical planned:

Benji wrote:Wow, this is hilariously bizarre. Personnel at De Toekomst printed all kinds of articles and photo's of Wim Jonk and Johan Cruijff and put them on windows and desks to show support. Van der Sar personally tore them apart :drecul.gif:



Yes it was a good laugh this morning at the office :biggrin.gif: when you saw Van der Sar 'banging' around on his big feet at De Toekomst with an angry look on his face. :smallgrin.gif:

https://twitter.com/PieterZwartNL/statu ... id=244+590
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby Benji » Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:25 am

Well, unsurprisingly, the report of Tschen La Ling was leaked to De Telegraaf and the managerial disorder is even worse than expected. Incompetence throughout the whole board of directors.

Don't know if some of you can read Dutch, but this example is pretty illustratory:

Image

Small translation:

Conclusion of the first round of talks with Jonk, Overmars, De Boer and Bergkamp:

- All recognize problems inside the Technical Heart (TH)
- Only Bergkamp puts the blame on one person, he points his finger at Jonk
- According to Jonk the composition of the TH remains unclear, but it is clear that De Boer does not attend the talks. However, in practice, he has a significant voice in transfers and organisation.
- I haven't talked to Overmars about the composition of the TH
- According to De Boer he is not part of the TH
- According to Bergkamp De Boer is part of the TH as part of a verbal agreement
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby Cruijff » Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:41 am

@ Benji:

For sure most of our English speaking friends will think that this is really strange, but there is more absurd stuff in it.\

As most of you can handle Google Translate you can find a direct link to the report here:
http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/artic ... t+Ling.pdf
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby Orange14 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:06 pm

The trouble is that the corporate structure of Ajax makes it very difficult to implement change. Although it is a "public" corporation 73% of the stock is essentially tied up (not sure what the correct Dutch term is here, but it is kind of like the US football team, Green Bay Packers where a supervisory board has all the power). There are two public shareholders who each have about 8% stakes and the rest of the "public" owns the remaining shares. This is pretty much why only an icon such as Cruyff can drive change since his status is so great. La Ling's report will be dismissed.

The only power that the public has is through attendance at matches. I wonder what management would think if the Arena was totally empty for a home match? Of course this will not happen.
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby Ayman » Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:39 pm

On a side note. Since its only a matter of time till Frank de Boer and Co. leave Ajax (More likely sooner rather than later). I think its time for Ron Jans to be given a chance. He has worked wonders at Zwolle, when he was at Heerenveen, he brought the best out of the players there. He needs to go on to the next step. That next step should be Ajax Amsterdam.
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby SPL » Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:33 pm

So I take it Ajax are in a complete mess.Jonk goes to court to challenge his sacking and all the youth staff are for him , but will they threaten to resign.And what becomes of the youth,will they go back to the boring footy of our first team?

I read from out Dutch board that young de Ligt joined in with the youth staff today ,protesting. What happens if some of our young talent dont want to stay. de Ligt is a hugh talent ,what if he does not like what is happening and views his future differently!

Clearly this shambles will continue until FDB gets another job and take Bergkamp and Overmars with him. It seems these ex players are letting their egos rule and dont care for our club.

It is a bit bizarre that this is happening when we are top ,play with 8 Dutch most games. Trouble is our record in Europe is dreadful and we cant compete with 3rd rate teams like Rapid Vienna,Celtic Fennebache and our football is very poor to watch.
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby roelf » Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:47 am

SPL wrote:I read from out Dutch board that young de Ligt joined in with the youth staff today ,protesting. What happens if some of our young talent dont want to stay. de Ligt is a hugh talent ,what if he does not like what is happening and views his future differently!
.


That's exactly what I'm afraid of. The talented youth also notices that the ones that went on to the first team before them got their chance way too late and when they did, they got put in the wrong position or were pushed into a mold that forces them to suppress their creativity. The playing style of the youth teams is different than the first team. Kishna was bullied away. Sinkgraven (not a youthplayer though) is constantly played in the wrong position, because on his actual CM position there's nobody to give him cover when he slips up, due to this different system that De Boer uses, and De Boer is too scared and tries to build in as much security as possible everywhere. Tete and Bazoer had been waiting too long and nearly left. Fosu Mensah, Dilrosun, Peeters already left. Maybe for money, maybe not. Who really knows?

All the talents are on the radar of foreign clubs. Not much is needed for them to leave. When they don't see a future with Ajax, they will have a future somewhere else. But never mind. We will probably find a couple of Zimlings somewhere. I have full confidence in Overmars.
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby roelf » Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:30 am

Cruijff wrote:It's correct what Benji says, the leaking from several parties was strategical planned:

Benji wrote:Wow, this is hilariously bizarre. Personnel at De Toekomst printed all kinds of articles and photo's of Wim Jonk and Johan Cruijff and put them on windows and desks to show support. Van der Sar personally tore them apart :drecul.gif:



Yes it was a good laugh this morning at the office :biggrin.gif: when you saw Van der Sar 'banging' around on his big feet at De Toekomst with an angry look on his face. :smallgrin.gif:

https://twitter.com/PieterZwartNL/statu ... id=244+590


Unfortunately it's the last laugh that counts.
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby SPL » Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:26 pm

Thanks roelf,glad I am not alone in thinking that way about our youth. I doubt whether de Ligt ,contracted to 2018 ,is going to walk out but if things change and next season sees the youth playing like the first team then some will decide to go or not sign contracts.

Of course with all this unrest going on for the last few weeks it was only last month that v D Beek,Nouri and Cerny extended to 2020. v d Beek should be at least on our subs bench now.

I am far more concerned about what happens to our youth as they are the future and mention Ajax to any fan and they say youth .

Of course the policy to not sign 16 year olds was Cruijff's and this proved flawed.
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby SPL » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:09 pm

Just read Ajax showtime ,google translated . de Ligt was not involved with any protest , he was at de Toekomst on his way to training and shook one of the youth trainers hand.
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby SPL » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:22 pm

So Cruijff has finished with Ajax and it all comes to a head after he announced he has cancer. The club seems in a mess and I keep reading Jonk going will be the end of the youth and although I am worried I do wonder if this is his ego talking!! Mention Ajax and its our youth academy system that everyone mentions its been world famous for years and I still see it continuing.

Since 2011 when the revolution started we have lost 5 youths OS ie Bouy,Fosu-Mensah,Dilrosun,Peeters,Malen. Ok Adekanye but he was about 12 when his Dad took Barca's money . Bergwijn an 18 year old highly talented PSV winger ,left aged 14.

Going back about 10 years before 2011 we lost V Velzen to Man U ,now at Volendam ,Brouwer to Liverpool ,last I read back home but dealing with drugs , and Owusu Abeye,sacked at 16 went to Arsenal drifted around into oblivion. Basically before 2011 we lost no real talent whatsoever but under the so called perfect system of Cruijff and Jonk , we have in 3 short years lost 4 x 16 year olds because we did not offer them contracts.Before 2011 we contracted kids at 16 to stop them going abroad and it worked.

Ok the youths play good football but I guess its harder to play like Barcelona when you dont have the players and from 2012 summer to 2014 summer we lost Anita,Vertonghen ,Eriksen,Alderweireld, v d Wiel , de Jong and Blind.Thats alot of experienced players and we have had to rebuild. Ok some of our signings are no better than players sold or on loan. We do start games with a very young side and 8 basic starters are Dutch and we are still top.

So Jonk may go and take a few coaches and kids but I will put money on our academy still producing talent.
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby Orange14 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:04 pm

Yes it is a big mess right now. The real issue will come when FdB leaves at the end of the season and who gets selected as the next manager of the club.
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Re: Ajax Directors, Board, Staff

Postby Ayman » Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:03 am

The contract extension is the job of the technical director, Marc Overmars, Players coming and going is also his responsibility, so why are fingers pointed at Cruijff and Jonk? Clearly the problem lies with Overmars, Frank de Boer and Co. There needs to be an overhaul, a clear out. Ron Jans needs to be selected as the next coach, if Wim Jonk can be selected as his assistant, then that is victory not only to Ajax as a club and the supporters, but to football to general.
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