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The 'Jewish Issue'

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Postby Philippe » Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:24 pm

it's another article, I will try and find it on the net. Title : "A Dutch soccer riddle : Jewish regalia without jews", author Criag S. Smith.
Last paragraph : "Mr.Jakke conceded that forcing the fans to change their behaviour was a daunting task. "It's difficult because it has become part of their identity" ha said. "Many people are walking around with Jewish stars tatooed on their bodies ans they are not Jewish at all."


SORRY it's the same article but shorter in "le monde" ... :X
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Postby Blind3 » Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:18 pm

Amazing how this "Jewish Issue" is on the lips of every supporter. It's not?Well damn, from the amount of press and attention from the, :pukey: ,chairman this is getting,you'd think all Ajax supporters walk around repeating the "I am a Jew" mantra ad nauseum.I loved it when ajax used to be about football.This "issue" will be this chairman's legacy...shite..in my eyes.
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Postby Philippe » Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:49 pm

philippe wrote:because it has become part of their identity


:worshippy:
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Postby ajaxusa » Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:20 pm

Link: Sports Nicknames And The Jews
The Jewish Week

Excerpt:

"Not only is this all curious and disturbing, but it has come about quite unofficially and improbably. After all, there are no Jews on the team, and only a few have ever played with the club since its founding in 1900. And while Amsterdam is home to the largest population of Jews in the Netherlands, most of the fans who cheer for Ajax with such mock displays of Jewishness aren’t even Jewish. In fact, given the insult behind this ritualized anti-Semitism and the threatening atmosphere that accompanies the team, Dutch Jews have actually stayed away from the games."
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Postby Kowalczyk » Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:32 pm

ajaxusa wrote: "... the threatening atmosphere that accompanies the team..."

X'D X'D X'D

Gimme a break... HAHAHAHA. :D

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Postby Arthur » Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:52 pm

Wow, they even manage to label this 'anti-semitic' :worshippy:
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Postby Kowalczyk » Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:34 pm

Arthur wrote:Wow, they even manage to label this 'anti-semitic' :worshippy:

Yeah, that's an achievement in itself. Congratulations, Jewish Week! :yes:

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The Jewish Question--Ajax's Jewish Heritage...

Postby HamelForever » Sun Nov 06, 2005 8:33 pm

For what it's worth, the Jewish Connection, for all of its flaws and controversy, is a big part of what's drawn me to Ajax. Even though there are some who find the manifestations of that connection offensive or troubling, they remain fact--Ajax is one of a small number of clubs in the world that has involved Jews and recognized (officially or unofficially) Jewish traditions and a vocal Jewish minority in its support base.

Downplaying Ajax' very real Jewish heritage may create a lighter atmosphere in the ArenA, but it won't make it go away.

PS: And in speaking of Ajax' Jewish heritage, let us not forget Eddy Hamel: geboren in Amerika, speler voor Ajax, moord in Auschwitz. 1902-1943
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Re: The Jewish Question--Ajax's Jewish Heritage...

Postby AsgAarD_xxx » Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:42 pm

HamelForever wrote:For what it's worth, the Jewish Connection, for all of its flaws and controversy, is a big part of what's drawn me to Ajax.


Well, from the other hand, it might be one of the biggest thing which dishearten people to Ajax... Don't forget that there is still a lot of anti-semitists all over the world and that thing might be a reason why some of them hate our club...

'Jewish Connection' might be one of our symbols (if I may write that word in this context), but I think not as important as our logo, red and white colours, songs, history and many other thing which make Ajax and Ajax fans.

PS: welcome on this forum, HamelForever :xyxthumbs: .
Last edited by AsgAarD_xxx on Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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More than Just A Club

Postby HamelForever » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:35 am

Hello Poland...

I understand what your saying--but unless the Jewish aspect to the club's history, identity, symbolism and support base transforms into something else, Ajax will continue to have an overtly Jewish tone. That tone is part of what holds the club (as opposed to the team) together-as offensive as it may be for some, off-putting for others, and attractive/invigorating for others still (like myself, to be honest).

For, like Barcelona, Ajax is "more than just a club". Given the current results on the pitch, that can be a source of comfort--that we aren't a PSV, a Man United, a Chelsea, or a Bayern Munich whose fortunes are 100% tied to the current year's results.

No, Ajax has real stories, real traditions, and real legends. Like one Eddy Hamel.
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Postby ZoefdeHaas » Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:28 pm

Tottenham also have a history with the Jews I believe, so i don't see what the real issue about ethnic groups and football clubs
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Postby aveslacker » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:14 pm

And if anti-semites don't like Ajax because of the jewish connection... fuck 'em. :pukey:
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Postby bluedaddy19 » Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:27 am

ajaxusa wrote:Link: Sports Nicknames And The Jews
The Jewish Week

Excerpt:

"Not only is this all curious and disturbing, but it has come about quite unofficially and improbably. After all, there are no Jews on the team, and only a few have ever played with the club since its founding in 1900. And while Amsterdam is home to the largest population of Jews in the Netherlands, most of the fans who cheer for Ajax with such mock displays of Jewishness aren’t even Jewish. In fact, given the insult behind this ritualized anti-Semitism and the threatening atmosphere that accompanies the team, Dutch Jews have actually stayed away from the games."



geez, how many inaccuracies, errors and flat out mistakes can you have in one article?
AJAX HUP ROOD WITTE SCHARE, DAPP RE STRIJDERS FIER EN KOEN
GEEN CLUB DIE ONS KAN EVENAREN, ROOD EN WIT WORDT KAMPIOEN
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Postby CraicAddictYid » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:09 am

Hello all, I'm a Tottenham Hotspur fan and I feel we have exactly the same issue. We as a club are not Jewish, the area of North London had a large Jewish population in the past, however now it is very multicultural and the percentage of Jews is very small. Other clubs used to try and abuse us with hisssing sounds and anti-semetic comments such as "Yids", we reclaimed this word and started referring to ourselves as Yids... taking the venom out of their abuse, which generally now has taken other forms such as how crap our team is! (Mr Jol is doing a fantastic job, and things are changing on that front) I see no problem with claiming an identity, both our teams have responded to abuse by facists, by identifying ourselves with what they hate most. F##K Em!

On a side note, I've always had a soft spot for Ajax, fabulous football and players... and hopefully we'll steal Kuyt from that second rate team that I forget the name of! :eusa_pray:
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Postby Tottenham Hotspur » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:15 pm

CraicAddictYid wrote:Hello all, I'm a Tottenham Hotspur fan and I feel we have exactly the same issue. We as a club are not Jewish, the area of North London had a large Jewish population in the past, however now it is very multicultural and the percentage of Jews is very small. Other clubs used to try and abuse us with hisssing sounds and anti-semetic comments such as "Yids", we reclaimed this word and started referring to ourselves as Yids... taking the venom out of their abuse, which generally now has taken other forms such as how crap our team is! (Mr Jol is doing a fantastic job, and things are changing on that front) I see no problem with claiming an identity, both our teams have responded to abuse by facists, by identifying ourselves with what they hate most. F##K Em!

On a side note, I've always had a soft spot for Ajax, fabulous football and players... and hopefully we'll steal Kuyt from that second rate team that I forget the name of! :eusa_pray:


Well not the only one that is a Tottenham fan are ya mate but still this is a Ajax forum and that is what I shall mainly be talking about of course. About the issue of having a so called Jewish identity. I admit that I have not been a big fan of my club calling itself "Yidarmy" but I just see it as a word and thats all. If you have a problem with the jewish songs then just don't sing them that would be the best thing o do when ever I used to hear "YIDARMY!!" I just ignore it and that would be all. Tottenham fans started singing Yidarmy due to being called YIDS by rival fans as a result of Tottenham having a large jewish following. The onething that really gets on my nerves is people saying that Tottenham racist due to this the ex-chairman of Chelsea Ken Bates said that Tottenham were racist due to this I thought wait they're calling racist after they handed out leaflets about getting rid of Asians and black people that "don't belong in the country". In all just let them say what they want but why would Ajax fans be racist when they fly the Isreal flag at games?
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Postby Tottenham Hotspur » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:43 pm

Found this on skyscrapercity.com

Image

Image

Image
Yep, Israeli flag because in World War II some Ajax players were jews and thus killed. After World War II other teams called us Jews and after a while we named ourselves jews. Superjews.

Image

Image


To call Ajax fans racist is well and truly stupid really isn't it.
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Postby aveslacker » Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:39 pm

Eddie Hamel, the first of two Americans to play for Ajax, was a jew, and met his end in Auschwitz.

More information on the Ajax Jewish connection.[/url]
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Re: The 'Jewish Issue'

Postby Kowalczyk » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:45 pm

This doesn't have anything to do with Ajax, but it somehow felt more appropriate to post it here than in the Grab Bag Of Random Posts thread or anything like that.

The Anne Frank Museum has published the only existing video footage of Anne Frank on YouTube. Untila few years no-one knew she was ever filmed, but she was: by their neighbors on Merwedestraat in Amsterdam-South's Rivierenbuurt ('River District'). This was filmed on 22 July 1941 (Holland was occupied by the Nazis for over a year already). The girl next door was getting married and her parents filmed the bride and groom. You can see Anne leaning ot of the window, watching the couple.

I'd never seen this before. Historic material.

Click here for the video, which the museum has now posted on YouTube.

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Re: The 'Jewish Issue'

Postby SPL » Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:18 pm

Thanks for that Ko. There is an Ann Frank exhibition at Chichester Cathedral, 20 miles from me, next month and the wife and I will go over .

Would I be correct in saying that had she not been found by the Nazis she and her family would almost certainly have starved to death in that aweful last few months of the war when the nazis took all the food and many Dutch people starved to death.
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Re: The 'Jewish Issue'

Postby jamcocteau » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:02 pm

She was arrested in August 1944. This was before the German embargo on food being transported by rail to Northern Netherlands which started in September 1944 as retaliation for Dutch railways going on strike to assist the Allied operation called Market Garden and was lifted in November 1944.

This combined with the unusually harsh winter, German destruction of transport infrastructure and agricultural land being destroyed because of the war were the main components of the Hongerwinter and certainly not Nazis stealing food as last poster stated.

Whether Anne Frank would have died during this period if she had not been betrayed into the hands of the Gestapo is pure specualtion to be honest.
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Re: The 'Jewish Issue'

Postby SPL » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:53 pm

thanks for putting me right on this .Sorry for my ignorance.
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Re: The 'Jewish Issue'

Postby Kowalczyk » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:32 am

SPL wrote:Would I be correct in saying that had she not been found by the Nazis she and her family would almost certainly have starved to death in that aweful last few months of the war when the nazis took all the food and many Dutch people starved to death.


During the winter famine of 1944-1945, some 18,000 people starved to death and many more sustained diseases and died, almost all of them in the major cities in the west (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht, mainly).

The Franks would have suffered, for sure. They were in hiding and it would have been tremendously hard for their helpers to find food for them (the helpers would have had a hard time feeding themselves). But would they have died...? Statistically a small chance, still.

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Re: The 'Jewish Issue'

Postby martinkohout » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:07 pm

Coincidentally, today's New York Times has a review by Janet Maslin of a new book by Francine Prose titled Anne Frank: The Book, the Life, the Afterlife.

It sounds like the book is mostly about the ways Anne Frank's story has been viewed and shaped by subsequent audiences, and not so much about the actual facts of her life and the history of the occupation.

A few excerpts from the review: "Ms. Prose uses her formidable powers of discernment to write incisively about many facets of the Anne Frank phenomenon, from the life itself to the various ways in which it has been willfully distorted.... As she provides her blow-by-blow account of the denaturing of the Anne Frank story, Ms. Prose remains impressively fair.... This seemingly narrow work is an impressively far-reaching critical work, an elegant study both edifying and entertaining."
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Re: The 'Jewish Issue'

Postby SPL » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:01 pm

I went to Chichester Cathedral this week and saw the Anne Frank exhibition. Many pictures and very well put together also showed the various conflicts round the world where people are still being slaughtered.

The man in charge said there had been loads of schools and the kids were very interested asking questions and nearly everyone went away a lot quieter than when they arrived. This sad story and that of the holocaust must never be forgotten trouble is this exhibition showed the human race has not learnt .
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